قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[CHACHA"G"]

Did you really think that being a Muslim and citing the Qu'ran I would be in favour of the act of blasphemy?

Like I said, no one wants to remove the law. Just amend it so it is in line with actual Islamic teachings.

Sir g my thinking does not matter and I never said that or not mean that Its was a lite joke. ........... And as I said changes can be done , but if you take Law in current condition its also working very fine... Just ask @Divergent1 , some body from authority told her .
Please don't mix barbaric act of people with the law........

 

[RangeMaster]

No hadith were collected about one and a half century later. PLEASE learn the meaning of tawatur. I can't wrire an article I am posting via mobile.

The collection of hadith was started in Holy Prophet SAW duration.
-Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As, a young Makkan, also used to write down all that he heard from the Prophet. He had even asked the Prophet if he could make notes of all that he said. The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Abdullah called this compilation Sahifah Sadiqa (The Took of the Truth). It was later incorporated into the larger collection of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal.
- Anas, a young Madinan, was the Prophet’s personal attendant. Since Anas remained with the Prophet day and night, he had greater opportunities than the other companions to listen to his words. Anas had written down the tradition on scrolls. He used to unroll these documents and say: “These are the sayings of the Prophet, which I have noted and then also read out to him to have any mistakes corrected.”
-Ali ibn Abi Talib was one of the scribes of the Prophet. The Prophet once dictated to him and he wrote on a large piece of parchment on both sides. He also had a sahifa (pamphlet) from the Prophet which was on zakat (the poor due) and taxes.
I am also posting via mobile.Write your essay and If you can write a whole book here.And please explain me the meaning of Twatur.

 

[TankMan]

The bold part was like a lite joke..........

With how serious these kinds of discussions can become, It's often hard to tell...

And as I said changes can be done , but if you take Law in current condition its also working very fine

Sadly the people who attacked Mashal don't seem to trust the law.

Please don't mix barbaric act of people with the law........

Even if this barbaric act had never happened, 295-C is still un-Islamic, which is why it should be opposed as a matter of principle.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

You've no idea how much I'm living

As per Quran, that's reaching full growth/maturity ... and it is specifically said that this is at the age of 40.

yes sir but it is for those who in the parlance of abraham maslow strive for self actualization some of us never grow beyond teens, most of them includes religious fanatics and liberal fanatics. Sorry for the clumsiness of my posts I am posting via mobile

The collection of hadith was started in Holy Prophet SAW duration.
-Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As, a young Makkan, also used to write down all that he heard from the Prophet. He had even asked the Prophet if he could make notes of all that he said. The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Abdullah called this compilation Sahifah Sadiqa (The Took of the Truth). It was later incorporated into the larger collection of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal.
- Anas, a young Madinan, was the Prophet’s personal attendant. Since Anas remained with the Prophet day and night, he had greater opportunities than the other companions to listen to his words. Anas had written down the tradition on scrolls. He used to unroll these documents and say: “These are the sayings of the Prophet, which I have noted and then also read out to him to have any mistakes corrected.”
-Ali ibn Abi Talib was one of the scribes of the Prophet. The Prophet once dictated to him and he wrote on a large piece of parchment on both sides. He also had a sahifa (pamphlet) from the Prophet which was on zakat (the poor due) and taxes.
I am also posting via mobile.Write your essay and If you can write a whole book here.And please explain me the meaning of Twatur.

The the collections of hadith which we have now in front of us ie bukhari muslim etc were collected and written more than 150 years after the death of our holy prophet saw. We don't even have their original manuscripts some 7th 8th or 10th copies.

The reliability of tawatur and ijma e ummah is something else khabar e ahad has its own place in islam.

 

[Verve]

No politician is gonna touch these laws until they've a majority of people backing him because everyone is scared for their lives! and about Quran being taught in school no one should have any problem with it being taught at schools but the teachers should be strictly monitored by intel agencies and a committee should be formed to keep a check on what translations are being taught too (this country can't afford another generation of terrorists/extremists).

Agreed, it should be monitored if not already.

As you are saying that you don't see in foreseeable future those in power touching these laws, then why take such harsh stance against those in public favouring them?

Yes, let's talk of reform but talk about how to as well specifically. For example, whilst having a calm temperament conversation with a mullah or any hardliner (those you come in contact with), planting the idea of love, tolerance and patience is a difficult thing? Plant the seed, that's all needed. That's the real contribution you can do and once a positive thought is planted and then repeated, it sticks and brain is forced to process it. Keep planting the seeds.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

The admin said not to quote sacred scriptures on here since they can be misquoted and misinterpreted.

There is nothing wrong with being liberal.

Absolutely but not a liberal fanatic congrats sis you were better than most of us

 

[The Sandman]

As you are saying that you don't see in foreseeable future those in power touching these laws, then why take such harsh stance against those in public favouring them?

Because we have to start somewhere and as soon as we do the better it is the sooner more people will encourage and back our politicians sooner they will start working we can't afford this extremism anymore it has already damaged us enough it's time we take some harsh steps and as quickly as possible.

Yes, let's talk of reform but talk about how to as well specifically. For example, whilst having a calm temperament conversation with a mullah or any hardliner (those you come in contact with), planting the idea of love, tolerance and patience is a difficult thing? Plant the seed, that's all needed. That's the real contribution you can do and once a positive thought is planted and then repeated, it sticks and brain is forced to process it. Keep planting the seeds.

That's what we're doing (we may get angry/annoyed/frustrated sometimes we're humans too yar) now just look at you (not calling you a mullah) but you weren't even ready to listen to us on blasphemy law but now you do agree that it's unislamic right see this task is not easy but at least now you will tell others too! i tried my best to explain all of this to chacha g too don't know if he has accepted it or not. :/

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Stop preaching importance of Hadiths to me as i know the values of Hadiths very well. Hadiths are the secondary source of knowledge about Islam after Holy Quran. The problem with extremist is that they dont use their brain and just follow everything in literal sense even if it dont make any sense and often contradict with Quranic verses and others Hadiths.

We have plenty of verses in Quran and plenty others Hadiths and examples in life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which contradict with your few random hadiths which seem bit vague and unclear in message then i would believe in those verses of Quran and Hadiths who are portraying Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as kind, compassionate , forgiving person who was sent down for mankind as mercy rather than those few who project his character in negative way..

Let me translate one of hadith you quoted
" Its narrated that one person associated a lie with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sent Hadrat Ali (R.A) and Hadrat Zubair (R.A) to kill him"

Now here we dont know even the name of person who got killed and punishment of lie is not death penalty in Islam and again if we read this in context of verses of Quran and others hadiths where Prophet(PBUH) forgave those who committed much worse crimes than this then you will get what i am talking about. Please dont degrade the status of Prophet(PBUH) as Prophet never take revenge for personal attacks or insults. They have much bigger mission than your tiny brain can think of. Allah did not sent Prophets to kill people for personal revenge . If your tablegi Mullah start quoting this verse to non muslim when preaching about Islam then every one will run away from Islam than believe in such prophet who is killing people because they dont show respect toward him. Is this how you perceive the character of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)? If yes then you are not any different than those ISIS, Osama; or TTP who are killing innocent in the name of

Stop preaching importance of Hadiths to me as i know the values of Hadiths very well. Hadiths are the secondary source of knowledge about Islam after Holy Quran. The problem with extremist is that they dont use their brain and just follow everything in literal sense even if it dont make any sense and often contradict with Quranic verses and others Hadiths.

We have plenty of verses in Quran and plenty others Hadiths and examples in life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which contradict with your few random hadiths which seem bit vague and unclear in message then i would believe in those verses of Quran and Hadiths who are portraying Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as kind, compassionate , forgiving person who was sent down for mankind as mercy rather than those few who project his character in negative way..

Let me translate one of hadith you quoted
" Its narrated that one person associated a lie with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sent Hadrat Ali (R.A) and Hadrat Zubair (R.A) to kill him"

Now here we dont know even the name of person who got killed and punishment of lie is not death penalty in Islam and again if we read this in context of verses of Quran and others hadiths where Prophet(PBUH) forgave those who committed much worse crimes than this then you will get what i am talking about. Please dont degrade the status of Prophet(PBUH) as Prophet never take revenge for personal attacks or insults. They have much bigger mission than your tiny brain can think of. Allah did not sent Prophets to kill people for personal revenge . If your tablegi Mullah start quoting this verse to non muslim when preaching about Islam then every one will run away from Islam than believe in such prophet who is killing people because they dont show respect toward him. Is this how you perceive the character of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)? If yes then you are not any different than those ISIS, Osama; or TTP who are killing innocent in the name of Islam or sects.

What is the source of this hadit I have read it somewhere but I don't remember the source. Apparently its not about blasphemy
It seems to be about fabricating lies regarding prophet Muhammad saw (attributing something to prophet saw which prophet saw had not said or done) means in simple layman's terms fabricating religion or sunnah God knows best first we should know the source then the chain of narrators then the text itself in this case it is unclear what was fabricated and who fabricated it. so?

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

What is the source of this hadit I have read it somewhere but I don't remember the source. Apparently its not about blasphemy
It seems to be about fabricating lies regarding prophet Muhammad saw which means in simple layman's terms fabricating religion or sunnah God knows best first we should know the source then the chain of narrators then the text itself in this case it is unclear what was fabricated and who fabricated it. so?

I just translated this from his Urdu stuffs and don't know where he got this from but you are right that many factors need to be considered before deducting any one conclusion form it

I don't know what @RangeMaster will say about some Sahih Muslim and sahih Bukahr Hadith talking about drinking urine of camel as medicine . Would he drink camel urine because mentioned in Sahih Bukahri and Muslim ?

Sahih Bukhari 8:82:794

Sahih Muslim 16:4130

 

[Divergent]

I have a few questions:

1) Is it correct to sentence a non-Muslim to death for committing blasphemy, bearing in my mind its not his/her faith and he's ignorant of it?

2) Do you agree with capital punishment (death) to be used for blasphemy?

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

I have a few questions:

1) Is it correct to sentence a non-Muslim to death for committing blasphemy, bearing in my mind its not his/her faith and he's ignorant of it?

2) Do you agree with capital punishment (death) to be used for blasphemy?

lol you ask these questions now after reading 26 pages

 

[Divergent]

lol you ask these questions now after reading 26 pages

Observation.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Even if this barbaric act had never happened, 295-C is still un-Islamic, which is why it should be opposed as a matter of principle.

Ahhhhhhh In the end civilized discussion...... Janab first of all thanks for not calling blasphemy law ............... ....... (bla bla bla) as whole as Those liberal extremists , fanatics, calling it , Just look different threads from post 1 on Mashal killing.
Now as for as 295-c concerns we both can have different views , I can see things from my prospective and you can see it from yours. We both can bring material in favour of our argument(although its against the rules of forum). You can disagree with my molvi and I can disagree with your molvi.
But I am not calling you kafir , isis , etc. and I am very hopeful you also wont label me any thing like other liberal extremist did.
Now 295-c is part of constitution as Islamic Law , but that doesn't mean some one can not discuses this "As per Supreme Court Judgment " . Changes can be made if majority agrees and proper narrative is presented on proper forums. For that real Alims , Mufties , Scholars can be very helpful.They can discuses this and come up with changes , reforms or what ever , and parliament can act accordingly (reform the law if suggested ). So the 295-c of law become Islamic( even according to you) , For me I wont going to have any problem at all.
This matter is extremely sensitive and requires extra care and patients . Which Liberal extremists wont have .
As @Verve said its all about planting the idea of love, tolerance and patience. Planting the seed, that's all we need .
Sir , those liberal fanatics are on agenda , they know people will get provoke if they do bad mouthing about the Blasphemy Law at whole. That act of them make extremist more extreme and make job more harder for people who does not belongs to any fanatic ism. And religious fanatics want them to do the same so they can run there business of hate and crime.
Sir both fanatics are like brother and sister to each other , they both cant survive without each other , And Ironically Both were against Pakistan from beginning , from Day 1.
In the end implementation issue will remain same , for that I suggest new department , institution or what ever only for Blasphemy law and all other cases regarding Any Religious Issue of Any Religion .

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Observation.

Question is first they all need to define and agreed upon on one definition of blasphemy ..Here people label each others wajib ul qatal when don't agree with each others

 

[RangeMaster]

yes sir but it is for those who in the parlance of abraham maslow strive for self actualization some of us never grow beyond teens, most of them includes religious fanatics and liberal fanatics. Sorry for the clumsiness of my posts I am posting via mobile


The the collections of hadith which we have now in front of us ie bukhari muslim etc were collected and written more than 150 years after the death of our holy prophet saw. We don't even have their original manuscripts some 7th 8th or 10th copies.

The reliability of tawatur and ijma e ummah is something else khabar e ahad has its own place in islam.

Can you please explain me the world"Twatur"

Stop preaching importance of Hadiths to me as i know the values of Hadiths very well. Hadiths are the secondary source of knowledge about Islam after Holy Quran. The problem with extremist is that they dont use their brain and just follow everything in literal sense even if it dont make any sense and often contradict with Quranic verses and others Hadiths.

We have plenty of verses in Quran and plenty others Hadiths and examples in life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which contradict with your few random hadiths which seem bit vague and unclear in message then i would believe in those verses of Quran and Hadiths who are portraying Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as kind, compassionate , forgiving person who was sent down for mankind as mercy rather than those few who project his character in negative way..

Let me translate one of hadith you quoted
" Its narrated that one person associated a lie with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sent Hadrat Ali (R.A) and Hadrat Zubair (R.A) to kill him"

Now here we dont know even the name of person who got killed and punishment of lie is not death penalty in Islam and again if we read this in context of verses of Quran and others hadiths where Prophet(PBUH) forgave those who committed much worse crimes than this then you will get what i am talking about. Please dont degrade the status of Prophet(PBUH) as Prophet never take revenge for personal attacks or insults. They have much bigger mission than your tiny brain can think of. Allah did not sent Prophets to kill people for personal revenge . If your tablegi Mullah start quoting this verse to non muslim when preaching about Islam then every one will run away from Islam than believe in such prophet who is killing people because they dont show respect toward him. Is this how you perceive the character of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)? If yes then you are not any different than those ISIS, Osama; or TTP who are killing innocent in the name of Islam or sects.

Actually the problem with you liberals is much worse then extremists.You just need a little incident to draw fire against molvis which you think are useless creature on this planet.In their presence your dreams of personal Islam would not be fulfilled.You want Islam acc to your wishes.
I cannot translate into english so read that again the 2nd one.Explanation given below.

In Saih Bukhari Hazrat Ans narrated that Hadith.Hazrat Ans spent 10 years with Holy Prpohet SAW.Now If your logic is true then Hazrat Ans is lying(MaazAllah).Man what kind of person you are?you think you are true and companions of Holy prophet are false.
Hazrat Muhammad SAW was very kind,more polite then any othet person on this planet but blasphemy is unforgiveable .He SAW himself orderd to kill and Hazrat Ans is saying that not I.