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قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

There are 2 kinds which almost destroyed Islam Image and Culture of Pakistan , One is Molvis (not All of them , Majority is good ) and Liberal or Secular Extremists. Both are doing Fasd fil Arz and ALLAH will Judge Both in Day of Qiyamat .
Islam is enough Liberal and Secular (not according to western definition) if some one want to understand. Here I remember ,,,,,,
جو دین بڑی شان سے نکلا تھا وطن سے
پردیس میں وہ آج غریب الغربا ہے



If you have so much "ishq," then follow his example. Listen to the Qur'an. It is not your right to take another's life based on an accusation. There must be a special place in hell for these self-styled mullah-vigilantes who have spilt so much innocent blood...

I like the concept of the Turkish Diyanet. It is based on the ottomon system, where the state is responsible for building and managing of all the masjids and also for training of the imams. It also drafts the Friday Khutbahs.

Best system ,,,,, I always support that , But as you said we are not ready , People like Zia or NS (remember 1998) are very dangerous. But we surly need Madrasa Reforms and Registration , And after Mardan Incident Uni (educational) Reforms and Monitoring System.

And here is one Beautiful Peace ,,,,,,, Please every one read it.
Ae Khasa e Khasan e Rusul waqt e duaa hai

Ummat pe tiree aakay ajab waqt para hai

اے خاصہ خاصان رسل وقت دعا ہے
امت پہ تیری آ کے عجب وقت پڑا ہے

jo deen barhi shaan say nikla tha, watan say
pardais mein woh aaj ghareeb-ul-ghuraba hai

جو دین بڑی شان سے نکلا تھا وطن سے
پردیس میں وہ آج غریب الغربا ہے

Jiss Deen Nay Ghairo kay thay Dil aakay Milaaye
iss deen mein khud bhai say ab bhai judaa hai

جس دین نے غیروں کے تھے دل آ کے ملائے
اس دین میں اب بھائی خود بھائی سے جدا ہے

Jo Deen Ke Hamdard e Bani Nao e Bashr Tha
Ab Jang o Jadal Char Taraf Es Mein Bpa Hai

جو دین کہ ہمدرد بنی نوع بشر تھا
اب جنگ و جدل چار طرف اس میں بپا ہے

Faryaad hai aye kashti-e-ummat kay nigehbaan
beira yeh tabaahi kay qareeb aa lagaa hai

فریاد ہے اے کشتی امت کے نگہباں
بیڑا یہ تباہی کے قریب آن لگا ہے

Kar Haq Se Dua Umat e Marhoom ke haq mein
Khatroon mein bohat jis ka jahaz aa ke ghira hai

کر حق سے دعا امت مرحوم کے حق میں
خطروں میں بہت جس کا جہاز آ کے گھرا ہے

Hum naik hain ya bad hain phir aakhir hain tumhare
Nisbat bohat achi hai agar Haal bura hai

ہم نیک ہیں یا بد ہیں پھر آخر ہیں تمہارے
نسبت بہت اچھی ہے اگر حال برا ہے

tadbeeer sambhalney ki hamarey nahin koi
haan aik DUA teri ke maqbool e KHUDA hai

تدبیر سنبھلنے کی ہمارے نہیں کوئی
ہاں ایک دعا تری کے مقبول خدا ہے

woh deen, huee bazm-e-jahaan’, jiss say charaaghaan’
aaj iski majaaliss mein na batti na diyaa hai

وہ دین ہوئی بزم جہاں جس سے چراغاں
اب اس کی مجالس میں نہ بتی نہ دیا ہے

jo deen keh tha shirk say aalam ka nigehbaan
ab iska nigehbaan’, agar hai, to KHUDA hai

جو دین کہ تھا شرک سے عالم کا نگہباں
اب اس کا نگہبان اگر ہے تو خدا ہے

جس دین کے مدعو تھے کبھی قیصر و کسرٰی
خود آج وہ مہمان سراۓ فقرا ہے

جو تفرقے اقوام کے آیا تھا مٹانے
اس دین میں خود تفرقہ اب آ کے پڑا ہے

جس دین کا تھا فقر بھی اکسیر ، غنا بھی
اس دین میں اب فقر ہے باقی نہ غنا ہے

جس دین کی حجت سے سب ادیان تھے مغلوب
اب معترض اس دین پہ ہر ہرزہ درا ہے

ہے دین تیرا اب بھی وہی چشمہ صافی
دیں داروں میں پر آب ہے باقی نہ صفا ہے

عالم ہے سو بےعقل ہے، جاہل ہے سو وحشی
منعم ہے سو مغرور ہے ، مفلس سو گدا ہے

یاں راگ ہے دن رات وداں رنگِ شب وروز
یہ مجلسِ اعیاں ہے وہ بزمِ شرفا ہے

چھوٹوں میں اطاعت ہے نہ شفقت ہے بڑوں میں
پیاروں میں محبت ہے نہ یاروں میں وفا ہے

دولت ہے نہ عزت نہ فضیلت نہ ہنر ہے
اک دین ہے باقی سو وہ بے برگ و نوا ہے

ہے دین کی دولت سے بہا علم سے رونق
بے دولت و علم اس میں نہ رونق نہ بہا ہے

شاہد ہے اگر دین تو علم اس کا ہے زیور
زیور ہے اگر علم تو مال سے کی جلا ہے

جس قوم میں اور دین میں ہو علم نہ دولت
اس قوم کی اور دین کی پانی پہ بنا ہے

گو قوم میں تیری نہیں اب کوئی بڑائی
پر نام تری قوم کا یاں اب بھی بڑا ہے

ڈر ہے کہیں یہ نام بھی مٹ جائے نہ آخر
مدت سے اسے دورِ زماں میٹ رہا ہے

جس قصر کا تھا سر بفلک گنبدِ اقبال
ادبار کی اب گونج رہی اس میں صدا ہے

بیڑا تھا نہ جو بادِ مخالف سے خبردار
جو چلتی ہے اب چلتی خلاف اس کے ہوا ہے

وہ روشنیِ بام و درِ کشورِ اسلام
یاد آج تلک جس کی زمانے کو ضیا ہے

روشن نظر آتا نہیں واں کوئی چراغ آج
بجھنے کو ہے اب گر کوئی بجھنے سے بچا ہے

عشرت کدے آباد تھے جس قوم کے ہرسو
اس قوم کا ایک ایک گھر اب بزمِ عزا ہے

چاوش تھے للکارتے جن رہ گزروں میں
دن رات بلند ان میں فقیروں کی صدا ہے

وہ قوم کہ آفاق میں جو سر بہ فلک تھی
وہ یاد میں اسلاف کی اب رو بہ قضا ہے

اے چشمہ رحمت بابی انت و امی
دنیا پہ تیرا لطف صدا عام رہا ہے

امت میں تری نیک بھی ہیں بد بھی ہیں لیکن
دل دادہ ترا ایک سے ایک ان میں سوا ہے

ایماں جسے کہتے ہیں عقیدے میں ہمارے
وہ تیری محبت تری عترت کی ولا ہے

ہر چپقلش دہر مخالف میں تیرا نام
ہتھیار جوانوں کا ہے، پیروں کا عصا ہے

جو خاک تیرے در پہ ہے جاروب سے اڑتی
وہ خاک ہمارے لئے داروے شفا ہے

جو شہر ہوا تیری ولادت سے مشرف
اب تک وہی قبلہ تری امت کا رہا ہے

جس ملک نے پائی تری ہجرت سے سعادت
کعبے سے کشش اس کی ہر اک دل میں سوا ہے

کل دیکھئے پیش آئے غلاموں کو ترے کیا
اب تک تو ترے نام پہ اک ایک فدا ہے

خود جاہ کے طالب ہیں نہ عزت کے خواہاں
پر فکر ترے دین کی عزت کی صدا ہے

ہاں حالیء گستاغ نہ بڑھ حدِ ادب سے
باتوں سے ٹپکتا تری اب صاف گلا ہے

ہے یہ بھی خبر تجھ کو کہ ہے کون مخاطب
یاں جنبشِ لب خارج از آہنگ خطا ہے
 
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I'm sorry, I can't accept nor respect a female family member coming to me and saying she is a lesbian and wants to marry another woman. How many muslims would accept and respect that?

Liberalism applies to everything and Islam applies to everything ... and our problem is that we are selective. People take certain things from liberalism because it suits/benefits them and certain things from Islam ..... yet, if one taken wholly, it is completely different from the other!

I think you misunderstood what i said, i just said what liberalism means, in reality a person is both liberal and conservative. No one man can be completely liberal or completely conservative. its human nature to accept some differences in opinion and in other cases not accept them.

But liberalism doesn't nullifies islam, humans and their actions do.
 
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Islam is enough

Exactly and I've said that repeatedly in many threads. We should not be looking at Islam through the eyes of liberalism and whatever 'ism there is. All those 'isms are man made concepts. But no, the liberals want to justify their means by wearing the lenses of liberalism and analysing Islam. Hence the mutation.

Secularism is plain satanic ... removing sovereignty of Allah and replacing it with sovereignty of state/ruling elite can only be that!

And liberalism is nothing but deception and confusion.
 
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Ok bro look i know you're a very sensible mature guy so pls just for once listen and understand what we're saying.
I have not get any answer for my question about Hindu laws for protecting Cow(because that's Holy for them) and killing of innocents Muslims , Christians.
I don't know much about hindu religion so i will refrain from commenting on it though i would say that they're moving towards religious extremism just like once we did in 80's.
I am also waiting for my answer for Hijab banning law in EU and killing of Muslim women " I remember 2 in France one was pregnant .
What happened in France was unfortunate but they're far more tolerant society than us we're at least 100 years behind in that aspect about Hijab ban than you're 2 things they banned Niqab (face veil) no Hijab only employers can ban Hijab because they've a right to do so just like a company have a uniform they've a right too.
And If this law is against Islam and they can prove this in online forum , Why they are not going to Supreme Court or Parliament.... Isn't it better instead of calling the law bal bla bla and cry river out here.
Shukar AlhamdulillAh that atleast you agreed that it's un-Islamic now why people are not going to SC ok here's the thing in 90's PPP tried to get rid of this law but they were met with fierce resistance from molvi hazrat (@Azlan Haider can shed some light on it) and than in 2011 the killing of Salman Taseer was a prove that even our politicians who rome with 100's of security guards are not safe anymore what Salman said? he called this law what it really is "kaala kanoon" and he was gunned down by his own "bodyguard" who took oath on Quran to protect him when our politicians are not safe you think an ordinary person is? everyone loves their life bro no one wants to die on the hands of few fanatics.
Now its almost established that Blasphemy have nothing to do with that brutality ,, And that brutality and crime against Humanity and Islam done by Liberal political party , What they will say about it and that party and there real face.
Maybe the killers belonged to a political party but you know what they did when they killed Mashal Khan? they congratulated each other those 4000 fanatics that went there and killed him they killed him because someone spread a rumor that Mashal was committing blashemepy so technically he still killed because those 4000 students thought he was a blasphemer so you can't brush it under the carpet by saying that a liberal party killed him and just by calling themselves liberals they do not becomes liberal pls understand this.

Chacha g pls read post slowly and calmly and than think and think no one is enemy of Islam or Pakistan here we're demanding the abolishment or reformation of law because we're actually trying to protect the image of Holy Prophet and Islam you forget everything and just think for a second that on one hand we say that our Holy Prophet was the most merciful man of the entire universe and on the other hand we're portraying an image of him where he's a revengeful person where he used to abuse his powers (NauzBillah)? just imagine who are anti Islam and spread falsehoods they don't need to do anything this law people here defending it with strawman arguments are just giving them ammunition just think who is actually damaging the image of Islam and Prophet? bro pls open up your mind and think about what i have written above.

Now see this who is damaging image of Pakistan and Islam?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-w...blasphemy-laws-and-sectarian-violence.489942/
 
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I think you misunderstood what i said, i just said what liberalism means, in reality a person is both liberal and conservative. No one man can be completely liberal or completely conservative. its human nature to accept some differences in opinion and in other cases not accept them.

But liberalism doesn't nullifies islam, humans and their actions do.

Liberalism in it's purest form is anti-religion and it does nullify Islam.

BTW, what kind of liberals are these who moan about muslims then? Is France a liberal state according to you?

The accept and respect liberalism as a system doesn't exist anywhere in the world.
 
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Blasphemy laws aren't part of 'Faith'.

Capital punishment = Capital offence.

Blasphemy laws need reviewing. Mob lynchers should meet same end and banned. There should be a clear vocal statement on this through all sectors of society within Pakistan.
Good luck getting this in thick skulls of mullahs and even if they somehow understand your point why would they knowingly support the amendment or abolishment of a law which gives them unchecked infinite power over masses.
 
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You and your copy paste stuff of few haidith out of context don't make any sense. You are also ignoring verses of Quran and others examples in life of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) which contradict with these copy pasted stuff you posted . You are also confusing Punishment for treachery with punishment for blasphemy or apostasy. Killing someone is serious offence in Islam and you are simply justifying the act of mobs by saying that Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) ordered his Sahaba to kill those who insulted him so in other words you are saying that these mobs actually followed the example of Sahabah. I even read that many mentally unstable man and woman were killed in Pakistan for Blasphemy.

Mate you are following Prophet (PBUH) and Islam in same way as TTP, ISIS and Osama is/were doing while my Prophet(PBUH) is different who is merciful, kind, forgiving and compassionate who would never do such things which you are associating with him. I still think that government whether Islamic or secular should have some laws to protect the religious sentiment of people and no one should have this right to incite and provoke others by mocking any Prophet or scriptures of any religion but saying that Prophet recommended death penalty for blasphemy is actually insult to excellent character of our beloved Prophet(PBUH)
What copy paste?I quoted Hadith from Saih Bukhari.Do you know what Saih Bukhari is?And who was Imam Bukhari?
Saih Bukhari and Saih Muslim are the only authentic books of hadith and every Muslim sect believes this.What is mean by contradict?Have you got any knowledge of Hadith?Or you have no belief in hadith.To be a Muslim belief in Hadith is equally important.Now tell me where is the method of prayer mentioned in Quran.It is not there.So according to you as we have no trust in guys who've collected hadith some of which were awarded Jannah while they were alive by Holy Prophet SAW so how do you offer your prayer?Tell me how to do a call for prayer cause Quran didnot mention that.

P19.gif

Yeah Hazrat Muhammed SAW ordered to murder him cause this is written in Saih Bukhari which is the most authentic book after Quran.And a muslim must've firm faith in hadith as well as Quran.Cause Hadith is what Holy Prophet SAW said.
And In fact, to hear a single Hadith, or to confirm the presence of one word in a Hadith, men used to travel great distances east and west to reach the living person who is part of the chain of transmission whose authority the Hadith is being narrated through.
Hadith is the sunnah of Holy Prophet.And it is such a shameful thing that you got n respect for those men who gave their entire life to Islam.What you and I've done so far to promote Islam.And no offence you must revise your beliefs cause hadith is not some ordinary thing and it is AUTHENTIC.
 
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I'm sorry, I can't accept nor respect a female family member coming to me and saying she is a lesbian and wants to marry another woman. How many muslims would accept and respect that?

Liberalism applies to everything and Islam applies to everything ... and our problem is that we are selective. People take certain things from liberalism because it suits/benefits them and certain things from Islam ..... yet, if one taken wholly, it is completely different from the other!
Mate I don't know what your problem is with liberalism i have explained in great detail to you what liberalism and being liberal means in other thread.
It is not just a western concept the purpose of it is to provide you with some building blocks like morals, ethics, tolerance and progressive views.then building upon them according to your culture and customs.no way does it forces western believes on you.you can be a Muslim,eastern and yet a liberal at the same time

That MQM murderer Altaf b*stard has killed more people than these 'thick skull mullahs' ... and you are his supporter. Enough said!
:lol::lol::lol: @The Sandman will you pls clear it for our brother here how sarcastically mocking altaf is running gag between us
 
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....... To be a Muslim belief in Hadith is equally important

So The Holy Qur'an is not enough for you??

All Hadith has shady origins.

For starters:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/islamic-history-archaeology.294333/#post-5123445



Shukar AlhamdulillAh that atleast you agreed that it's un-Islamic now why people are not going to SC ok here's the thing in 90's PPP tried to get rid of this law but they were met with fierce resistance from molvi hazrat (@Azlan Haider can shed some light on it) .......


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aami...fir-on-dawn-tribun.482800/page-2#post-9286844
 
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The admin said not to quote sacred scriptures on here since they can be misquoted and misinterpreted.

There is nothing wrong with being liberal.
 
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Mate I don't know what your problem is with liberalism i have explained in great detail to you what liberalism and being liberal means in other thread.
It is not just a western concept the purpose of it is to provide you with some building blocks like morals, ethics, tolerance and progressive views.then building upon them according to your culture and customs.no way does it forces western believes on you.you can be a Muslim,eastern and yet a liberal at the same time


:lol::lol::lol: @The Sandman will you pls clear it for our brother here how sarcastically mocking altaf is running gag between us

Yet you insist on looking at Islam through the prism of Liberalism! Wow! What's so hard for you to see Islam for Islam. I've explained that to you enough as well.

Altaf reference was a point that Blasphemy related killings are so small compared to the large number of murders by liberals and seculars like Altaf! Controlling liberal murderers like Altaf and the other face of same coin the Khawarij Dogs (TTP etc) is far more important at this point in time so a shut up call is required for those crying blasphemy laws.

Heck, ANP a secular party has killed more and Marshal a victim of theirs.
 
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Altaf reference was a point that Blasphemy related killings are so small compared to the large number of murders by liberals and seculars like Altaf! Controlling liberal murderers like Altaf and the other face of same coin the Khawarij Dogs (TTP etc) is far more important at this point in time so a shut up call is required for those crying blasphemy laws.
God you love to turn every thing to suit your narrative.
First you claimed that I was an altafs supporter once I cleared that you turn it into off topic political debate.mate pls accept that you like every other human being can sometime be wrong in your judgements about others instead of twisting the narrative until it suits you
 
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