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@CriticalThought Let's get one thing out of the way - do you now agree that the Pakistan blasphemy law goes against Islam and the teachings of Imam Abu Hanifa? Because I have proven to you that Imam Abu Hanifa said non-Muslims can not be given the death penalty for blasphemy. The Pakistan Penal code says they can. There is a clear conflict there.

You have shown no such thing. In my previous posts I have shown very clearly that you have only given a proof regarding Dhimmi, NOT all non-Muslims. Furthermore, the image I posted from the book that you yourself were referring to prove your case, shows that the majority of Ahnaf scholars have ruled for killing the blasphemer. At this point, you need to understand jurisprudence. What I am telling you are such basics, I shouldn't even have to remind you of this.

Imam Abu-Hanifa Rahimahullah has categorically stated that if any of his opinions are found to be against the teachings of Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam, then his opinion should not be taken. Under this guidance, there are a number of issues in which subsequent Hanafi scholars have accepted the opinions of other Imams. The Ma'dhab of Ahnaf is very clear: all blasphemers are to be killed. The law of Pakistan is NOT against the Hanafi Ma'dhab and this is what the vast majority of Pakistanis follows.

Not blasphemy; the reasoning of the scholars behing blasphemy by Muslims being punishable by death is that it constitutes apostasy or kufr.

Kufr means 'rejecting the truth out of arrogance'. So in this case it depends what exactly the Muslim accused of blasphemy actually said.

If he misspoke, or accidentally said something offensive, or swears that he didn't actually say anything of the sort and there is no evidence (as often happens in such cases) - that is not punishable.

Please don't try to pervert the definition of blasphemy. Misspoken, or accidental utterance DO NOT constitute blasphemy. From Sahih Muslim:

Sahih Muslim Book 037, Hadith Number 6618.
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Allah is more pleased with the repentance of a servant as he turns towards Him for repentance than this that one amongst you is upon the camel in a waterless desert and there is upon (that camel) his provision of food and drink also and it is lost by him, and he having lost all hope (to get that) lies down in the shadow and is disappointed about his camel and there he finds that camel standing before him. He takes hold of his nose-string and then out of boundless joy says: O Lord, Thou art my servant and I am Thine Lord. He commits this mistake out of extreme delight.

Then there is also this verse to consider:

"Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path." [An-Nisa 4:137]

If those who believe then disbelief are killed the first time they disbelieve, how are they to again believe and then disbelieve?

Like I said, it's a different matter altogether.

Please prove that this Aayah is about open and repeated disbelief in a Muslim country. The above can be done surreptitiously in the heart, or in a far away land not accessible to Muslims.

Can not be killed under normal circumstances. If the ruler intervenes and decides that its best to give the death penalty, which would only happen if the crime was particularly heinous, then sure. Nothing false about that.

You still haven't 'countered' these verses from the Qur'an, by the way:

"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme." [Qur'an 4:140]
"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you." [Qur'an 28: 55]
"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]
"Have patience with what they say, and leaves them with noble (dignity)." [Qur'an 73:10]
"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Qur'an 25:63]
"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [Qur'an 16: 128]
". . . But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Qur'an 9:47]

It's best if you stop pretending hadith and interpretations are superior to the Qur'an.

More beating about the bush and trying to pervert the truth. The book that you yourself quoted, Assarim-ul-Maslool, provides Aayahs from the Holy Quran in support of killing blasphemers, specifically Dhimmis. This shows the depths of your deviousness. You are cherry picking quotes from books and you are perverting the original message and knowledge from books to forward your agenda. Now, here is proof from the Holy Quran cited in the book that YOU referred. You can start reading from here

https://archive.org/stream/Assaarim-ul-maslool-alaa-shatimirrasoolupDate#page/n50/mode/2up

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You are intelligent enough to take things at face value! Red line in the Law, yes! And that red line is: NO INSULTING THE PROPHET (PBUH).

As for prevailing circumstances, the current ruling elite can't even make basic police reforms let alone enforce strict implementation of the law! So please, spare us the 'removing the law will fix all' nonsense.

Liberals and seculars only abide to one thing, and that is the Law of the land - any religious & moral codes are irrelevant to these lot anyways. So to keep these lot in line, strict enforcement of law is necessary!




And you should stick with pouting selfies! :omghaha:

Who doesn't observe religious codes? No one makes excuses up for those who commit blasphemy if its proven. But extremists always funnily enough seem to have excuses for every mob lynchers. By adding 'what if', 'maybe', 'wait till courts' to reassure IF it was blasphemy it's 'acceptable'. Mob lynching isn't acceptable on all grounds whether committed the offence or not.

You can't accept that people are different and don't have to conform to a uniformed code of religiousness or carry the same ideology as you.

No one said the law should be abolished, but pointed out flaws and you seem to cuddle on to it.

My pout game is stronger than your weak arguments.
 
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And that red line is: NO INSULTING THE PROPHET (PBUH).
This is there main agenda and target ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Blasphemy or Law is not............
And since its proven that its ANP (liberal , communists type) look how they are changing colours.............. And as I said before , I really want the same punishment for all the killers , Y ? because they are all uni students , the one who actually have to fight the Liberal and Religious Extremism , but they did quite opposite .
And what the hell happen to those so called TEACHERS ............
I am waiting for a protest from all those NGOs and Liberal extremists against ANP . Now wait and see what happen.
 
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This is there main agenda and target ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Blasphemy or Law is not............

Yes, they want free hand to cause unrest in the society claiming 'they've done nothing illegal' (if the law was abolished) and then cry persecution when adverse reaction follow.

Stopping their insults and the unrest that will follow is why the law is there. But these propagandists will continue barking.
 
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So are you saying (Ma'aaz Allah, summa ma'aaz Allah) that the Holy Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam contradicted the Aayaahs of Holy Quran when he ordered the killing of Ka'b bin Ashraf?
how are you sir, again in thick of it. I have posted a video on this thread Ie #137 watch the full video you will get the answer.there is an english saying " nothing personal" and there is a phenomenon called due course of law. which begs a legitimate govt meditate on both. Salutes

You have shown no such thing. In my previous posts I have shown very clearly that you have only given a proof regarding Dhimmi, NOT all non-Muslims. Furthermore, the image I posted from the book that you yourself were referring to prove your case, shows that the majority of Ahnaf scholars have ruled for killing the blasphemer. At this point, you need to understand jurisprudence. What I am telling you are such basics, I shouldn't even have to remind you of this.

Imam Abu-Hanifa Rahimahullah has categorically stated that if any of his opinions are found to be against the teachings of Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam, then his opinion should not be taken. Under this guidance, there are a number of issues in which subsequent Hanafi scholars have accepted the opinions of other Imams. The Ma'dhab of Ahnaf is very clear: all blasphemers are to be killed. The law of Pakistan is NOT against the Hanafi Ma'dhab and this is what the vast majority of Pakistanis follows.



Please don't try to pervert the definition of blasphemy. Misspoken, or accidental utterance DO NOT constitute blasphemy. From Sahih Muslim:

Sahih Muslim Book 037, Hadith Number 6618.




Please prove that this Aayah is about open and repeated disbelief in a Muslim country. The above can be done surreptitiously in the heart, or in a far away land not accessible to Muslims.



More beating about the bush and trying to pervert the truth. The book that you yourself quoted, Assarim-ul-Maslool, provides Aayahs from the Holy Quran in support of killing blasphemers, specifically Dhimmis. This shows the depths of your deviousness. You are cherry picking quotes from books and you are perverting the original message and knowledge from books to forward your agenda. Now, here is proof from the Holy Quran cited in the book that YOU referred. You can start reading from here

https://archive.org/stream/Assaarim-ul-maslool-alaa-shatimirrasoolupDate#page/n50/mode/2up

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http://www.javedahmadghamidi.com/videos/by_tag/tag/blasphemy
What do you think about this point of view?
 
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Who doesn't observe religious codes?

Study Liberalism and Secularism.

Secularism is a system that nullifies Deen (Islamic System).

Liberalism nullifies Faith.

Combine two together and both nullify Islam wholly.
 
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You are intelligent enough to take things at face value! Red line in the Law, yes! And that red line is: NO INSULTING THE PROPHET (PBUH).

As for prevailing circumstances, the current ruling elite can't even make basic police reforms let alone enforce strict implementation of the law! So please, spare us the 'removing the law will fix all' nonsense.

Trying to create a strawman now ?

Where did I say "remove the law" or make "insulting of the prophet legal" ??

Opposing Mandatory death penalty for all blasphemers (i.e 295-C) for it being un-Islamic and inhumane is not the same as asking for legalizing insults again Islam. Are you really that stupid or just pretending ??


Read carefully what I have written :

Blasphemy and all type of hate material/speech should be banned.

Long prison sentences and heavy fines should be imposed on repeat/habitual offenders, but not death sentence .. unless the blasphemer is also involved in other crimes (Fasad/treason/rebellion against the state etc.), besides committing blasphemy.



============================


Study Liberalism and Secularism.

Secularism is a system that nullifies Deen (Islamic System).

Liberalism nullifies Faith.

Secularism is a system that nullifies Islamism aka political Islam, not Islamic religion

Liberalism nullifies Extremism, not faith
 
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The following Aayah of Quran immediately makes all commands of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam as compulsory and mandatory upon all Muslims



Furthermore, consider the definition of Zindeeq

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/murtad-kafir-or-zindeek-ki-tareef/-0001-11-30

View attachment 391238

The penalty of blasphemy being death is established amongst Muslims throughout Islamic history. Publicly claiming against it will place one in a very dangerous situation.



No it isn't the sin of blasphemy, it is the sin of lying, cheating, bribery etc. Please don't try to pervert the definition of blasphemy that is well established. Thank you.



The answer isn't to start questioning blasphemy, but rather to renew our efforts to implement the proper religion in our own lives and spread this message amongst our brethren.



The definition of blasphemy can be found here:

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/islam-may-shatim-e-rasool-ki-saza/-0001-11-30

There are already well established principles for reporting and prosecuting a crime. The same should be followed for blasphemy.

There are many such 'animals'. I posted these links earlier as well, and re-posting them again. Please have a look:

https://www.dawn.com/news/302796

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1011875/pent-up-aggression-mob-burns-robber-to-death/

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/182609-Robber-thrashed-burnt-to-death-by-mob-in-Landhi

So you agree that all these people are animals right? My question is, why didn't the supreme court take suo moto notice against these? Why wasn't a thread started against this on defence.pk? Why all the hue and cry when the crime is blasphemy?


This is why this forum is so great. Thank you for your level-headed and intellectually-backed response, even though this is a very emotional topic for all Muslims --- and even though I still disagree with most of your points.

1.) The Definition of Blasphemy
So, questioning the modern interpretation and implementation of a 'blasphemy law' is not in itself blasphemy?
Do you feel Salman Taseer committed blasphemy? I do not, but many do. This is part of the problem. Who decides? Before the case can even reach the Supreme Court, a bloodthirsty mob (or a pathetic criminal like Mumtaz Qadri who murdered, in cold blood, the very man he was tasked to protect) does.

2.) The Punishment for Blasphemy
The punishment --- and more importantly, the pardoning of even a proven blasphemer --- is well-established in at least the Hanafi school of thought, which supposedly dominates religio-legal thought in Pakistan. This means that if someone openly commits blasphemy, admits he/she committed blasphemy and then repents, he/she is pardoned.

We don't even get to the point of "proven blasphemer" and murder the accused (usually innocent).

Do you agree that people who kill those accused of blasphemy are animals who deserve a swift end so the intolerant cancer they are a part of is removed from society?

3.) Supreme Court Suo Moto
I believe that the lynching of petty thieves is not a matter of national security, while the uninterrupted march of self-styled "Muslim" judge/jury/executioners (self-proclaimed legal experts in the highly complex field of Islamic jurisprudence) and the religiously-fueled violence that they are bringing upon society (whether LeJ, TTP, ISIS or a locally-charged mob out to kill anyone who is, to use their favorite phrase, "wajab-e-qatal") is.

The mob that killed the thief was also in the wrong and did something illegal, obviously.

The cancer of rising radicalism and intolerance of varying religious / religio-legal opinions is the foundation on which all of our terrorist movements are based. It is the hate for a perceived sinner/heretic/blasphemer that drives these men and women to commit unspeakable acts of terror against innocent civilians. It is tearing society apart, because it allows an otherwise pathetic human being (liar, cheater, briber, adulterer, pedophile, etc.) to become an honorable "Defender of the Faith" when the time for mindless violence against an accused comes.

4.) Wildly Varying Opinions
In many facets of Islam, the conclusions of scholars on the same topics (such as blasphemy and pardons, women's rights, etc.) across centuries/cultures/sects/sub-sects/schools of thought have varied greatly.

A Senior Member on this forum once posted a Wahabbi opinion as the absolute truth --- only to be reminded that another school of thought held a directly opposite view of the same issue. Islam is the universal truth, but our understanding, as flawed humans, is constantly evolving and often quite different. Therefore, it is a crime against our beautiful religion to claim that one school of thought's conclusions are the absolute truth. This is a blatant lie. Please do not indulge in it. https://www.dawn.com/news/1149558

5.) On Being A Good Muslim
Our focus has become disproportionately on the very narrow and public sphere of Islam. This belittles Islam to a set of stringent rules that must be followed (usually by Wahabbi/Deobandi followers) "or else..."

When I asked: is lying, cheating, etc., not blasphemy --- I obviously did not mean it literally, just as the Qur'an is written in prose, and has layers and translations across scholars that can be quite different. What I meant was that we are focusing so much on this stuff (the "how long your beard is and how high your shalwar is" syndrome) that we are missing the essence of our religion --- and that is, in my understanding, being an honorable person. Of course the regimented worship and other pillars are important too --- but our religion doesn't start and end there.

The violent mobs that commit acts of religious terrorism or "justice" (such as the lynching of an innocent student entrapped in a false blasphemy accusation) are themselves questionable followers of the faith. So many people with loud "naat" ringtones pick up the phone and ask for a bribe. So many who pray five times a day and have great big beards and high shalwars send brainwashed kids to blow themselves up in markets, taking innocent men, women and children. To them, we are all "wajab-e-qatal" because we have not joined their (TTP's, ISIS's, etc.) struggle to overthrow these "Western democracies" in places like Pakistan. To them, we are heretics, much like many --- apparently like you --- would want accused blasphemers to be considered, and can/should be killed (in their flawed understanding of the religion.)

it's not implemented because the government is run by people of questionable religious practice. The prime minister has already been accused of Kufr. There are ministers who have not been able to recite basic surahs from the Holy Quran. Many of them are known to drink alcohol. What should we expect from them? So as you can see, people are taking the law in their own hands. Too bad, really.

Drinking alcohol is a sin according to most interpretations. It doesn't make you a non-Muslim. I don't drink, but if someone drinks and eats pork, we are disproportionately judgmental against them (vs. the daily acts of dishonesty that go on around us.) I had to remind myself to not be so judgmental.

Lying, cheating, taking and giving bribes, not doing honest work --- these are problems with society at large and our public representatives, elected by us, naturally reflect our own sick state.
 
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how are you sir, again in thick of it. I have posted a video on this thread Ie #137 watch the full video you will get the answer.there is an english saying " nothing personal" and there is a phenomenon called due course of law. which begs a legitimate govt meditate on both. Salutes


http://www.javedahmadghamidi.com/videos/by_tag/tag/blasphemy
What do you think about this point of view?

Listen to this guy, its the same thing i have been saying for a long time

 
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Secularism is a system that nullifies Islamism aka political Islam, not Islam

Liberalism nullifies Extremism, not faith

You are intentionally misinforming and corrupting confused minds.

Secularism nullifies 'sovereignty of Allah'.

Liberalism nullifies Religion/faith part of Islam.

A liberal would justify doing things that are clearly prohibited in Quran and Sunnah, even shirk.
 
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Listen to this guy, its the same thing i have been saying for a long time


Beautiful.

But his words cannot be understood by many on this forum and their brothers on the streets who shroud their blood-lust with "ishq-e-rasool."

If you have so much "ishq," then follow his example. Listen to the Qur'an. It is not your right to take another's life based on an accusation. There must be a special place in hell for these self-styled mullah-vigilantes who have spilt so much innocent blood...
 
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This is why this forum is so great. Thank you for your level-headed and intellectually-backed response, even though this is a very emotional topic for all Muslims --- and even though I still disagree with most of your points.

1.) The Definition of Blasphemy
So, questioning the modern interpretation and implementation of a 'blasphemy law' is not in itself blasphemy?
Do you feel Salman Taseer committed blasphemy? I do not, but many do. This is part of the problem. Who decides? Before the case can even reach the Supreme Court, a bloodthirsty mob (or a pathetic criminal like Mumtaz Qadri who murdered, in cold blood, the very man he was tasked to protect) does.

2.) The Punishment for Blasphemy
The punishment --- and more importantly, the pardoning of even a proven blasphemer --- is well-established in at least the Hanafi school of thought, which supposedly dominates the relio-legal thought in Pakistan. This means that if someone openly commits blasphemy, admits he/she committed blasphemy and then repents, he/she is pardoned.

We don't even get to the point of "proven blasphemer" and murder the accused (usually innocent).

Do you agree that people who kill those accused of blasphemy are animals who deserve a swift end so the intolerant cancer they are a part of is removed from society?

3.) Supreme Court Suo Moto
I believe that the lynching of petty thieves is not a matter of national security, while the uninterrupted march of self-styled "Muslim" judge/jury/executioners (self-proclaimed legal experts in the highly complex field of Islamic jurisprudence) and the religiously-fueled violence that they are bringing upon society (whether LeJ, TTP, ISIS or a locally-charged mob out to kill anyone who is, to use their favorite phrase, "wajab-e-qatal") is.

The mob that killed the thief was also in the wrong and did something illegal, obviously.

The cancer of rising radicalism and intolerance of varying religious / religio-legal opinions is the foundation on which all of our terrorist movements are based. It is the hate for a perceived sinner/heretic/blasphemer that drives these men and women to commit unspeakable acts of terror against innocent civilians.

4.) Wildly Varying Opinions
In many facets of Islam, the conclusions of scholars on the same topics (such as blasphemy and pardons, women's rights, etc.) across centuries/cultures/sects/sub-sects/schools of thought have varied greatly.

A Senior Member on this forum once posted a Wahabbi opinion as the absolute truth --- only to be reminded that another school of thought held a directly opposite view of the same issue. Islam is the universal truth, but our understanding, as flawed humans, is constantly evolving and often quite different. Therefore, it is a crime against our beautiful religion to claim that one school of thought's conclusions are the absolute truth. This is a blatant lie. Please do not indulge in it. https://www.dawn.com/news/1149558

5.) On Being A Good Muslim
Our focus has become disproportionately on the very narrow and public sphere of Islam. This belittles Islam to a set of stringent rules that must be followed (usually by Wahabbi/Deobandi followers) "or else..."

When I asked: is lying, cheating, etc., not blasphemy --- I obviously did not mean it literally, just as the Qur'an is written in prose, and has layers and translations across scholars that can be quite different. What I meant was that we are focusing so much on this stuff (the "how long your beard is and how high your shalwar is" syndrome) that we are missing the essence of our religion --- and that is, in my understanding, being an honorable person. Of course the regimented worship and other pillars are important too --- but our religion doesn't start and end there.

The violent mobs that commit acts of religious terrorism or "justice" (such as the lynching of an innocent student entrapped in a false blasphemy accusation) are themselves questionable followers of the faith. So many people with loud "naat" ringtones pick up the phone and ask for a bribe. So many who pray five times a day and have great big beards and high shalwars send brainwashed kids to blow themselves up in markets, taking innocent men, women and children. To them, we are all "wajab-e-qatal" because we have not joined their (TTP's, ISIS's, etc.) struggle to overthrow these "Western democracies" in places like Pakistan. To them, we are heretics, much like many --- apparently like you --- would want accused blasphemers to be considered, and can/should be killed (in their flawed understanding of the religion.)



Drinking alcohol is a sin according to most interpretations. It doesn't make you a non-Muslim. I don't drink, but if someone drinks and eats pork, we are disproportionately judgmental against them (vs. the daily acts of dishonesty that go on around us.) I had to remind myself to not be so judgmental.

Lying, cheating, taking and giving bribes, not doing honest work --- these are problems with society at large and our public representatives, elected by us, naturally reflect our own sick state.

So true, the problem with people in Pakistan is that no one tries to study the religion themselves, but want someone else to do it for them and they will believe anything that a man with a long beard and a tasbeeh in hand will say.

Another problem is that there is no formal school for mullahs, anyone with money can build a masjid and become an iman and start giving khutbahs or start training the next batch of imans based on his interpretation of the religion.

I like the concept of the Turkish Diyanet. It is based on the ottomon system, where the state is responsible for building and managing of all the masjids and also for training of the imams. It also drafts the Friday Khutbahs.

There are advantages and disadvantages of the Turkish Diyanet system. It is very good as long as someone like Zia doesn't come into power.

Beautiful.

But his words cannot be understood by many on this forum and their brothers on the streets who shroud their blood-lust with "ishq-e-rasool."

If you have so much "ishq," then follow his example. Listen to the Qur'an. It is not your right to take another's life based on an accusation. There must be a special place in hell for these self-styled mullah-vigilantes who have spilt so much innocent blood...

agreed. I will tell you a couple of stories from my life.

1st story

My parents arranged for a mullah to come and teach me and my sister quran. I was 12 years old then. He was an ok teacher, but he used to beat me for not able to pronounce the letter ض. this letter in arabic is pronounced like a D but in Urdu its pronounced like Z and i would always get it wrong, so he would beat me with a stick. I used to get angry and he would say that its swab if i get beaten.

Today i know that it was all BS, there is no swab for getting beaten, there is swab for reading the quran but not for getting beaten up.

2nd Story

one time i asked a mullah from my masjid if eating kangaroo is halal or haram, the mullah asked" Kangaroo kiya ballah (Demon) hai?" i said its an Australian animal, as soon as i said that, he replied " Australian, haram hai haram".

There are so many more that i have personally witnessed that makes me wonder where did these people come from. Its like the most emotionally volatile and intellectually lacking people are becoming mullahs in Pakistan.

You are intentionally misinforming and corrupting confused minds.

Secularism nullifies 'sovereignty of Allah'.

Liberalism nullifies Religion/faith part of Islam.

A liberal would justify doing things that are clearly prohibited in Quran and Sunnah, even shirk.

Sorry my friend i disagree with you on the meaning of liberalism

Liberalism means the acceptance and respecting of someone or something different to your opinion.

For example you say the sky is blue and i say the sky is grey, liberals will respect each other opinions and move on while conservatives will keep arguing that they are right and the other is wrong.
 
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So true, the problem with people in Pakistan is that no one tries to study the religion themselves, but want someone else to do it for them and they will believe anything that a man with a long beard and a tasbeeh in hand will say.

That is the biggest problem! Religion has become a commodity to make money from and 'Alim' is anyone who has memorised the Quran.

What Nauman Ali says is spot on but removing/amending these laws when the society is so polarised as it is will result in chaos. Until we are in peace times with rule of law enforced as it should be alongside a new and effective reformative narrative in place, we shouldn't be touching these laws.

But these liberals will keep attacking at any given opportunity. Where is the sense in all that? We do not have proper enforcement of law - far from it, we do not have a reformative narrative in place, we've got militants to neutralise, we are fighting a 4th and 5th gen war, so much to do and they want this added to the mix at this time ... that's insanity!
 
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That is the biggest problem! Religion has become a commodity to make money from and 'Alim' is anyone who has memorised the Quran.

What Nauman Ali says is spot on but removing/amending these laws when the society is so polarised as it is will result in chaos. Until we are in peace times with rule of law enforced as it should be alongside a new and effective reformative narrative in place, we shouldn't be touching these laws.

But these liberals will keep attacking at any given opportunity. Where is the sense in all that? We do not have proper enforcement of law - far from it, we do not have a reformative narrative in place, we've got militants to neutralise, we are fighting a 4th and 5th gen war, so much to do and they want this added to the mix at this time ... that's insanity!

Agreed, iss qoum ka allah hi hafiz hai jis qoum mai Dr Amir Liaquat Alim-e-dinn hotay hain
 
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Liberalism means the acceptance and respecting of someone or something different to your opinion.

I'm sorry, I can't accept nor respect a female family member coming to me and saying she is a lesbian and wants to marry another woman. How many muslims would accept and respect that?

Liberalism applies to everything and Islam applies to everything ... and our problem is that we are selective. People take certain things from liberalism because it suits/benefits them and certain things from Islam ..... yet, if one taken wholly, it is completely different from the other!
 
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