قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[CriticalThought]

Or if death really needs to be the punishment for blasphemy, given the tricky nature of accusations, proof, etc. Pakistan's blasphemy law was drafted by a man. It is not a Divine Law. It is not in the Quran. Surely, as has been the case for a thousand years of Islamic discourse leading to various different schools of thought and rulings on various subjects pertaining to the practice of the religion and implementation of its laws, we can discuss the intellectual and moral merits of this law. It shouldn't mean an automatic death sentence by a bunch of hooligans whose Islam begins and ends with judgement and violence.

The following Aayah of Quran immediately makes all commands of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam as compulsory and mandatory upon all Muslims

Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah, then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.
3:31-32

Furthermore, consider the definition of Zindeeq

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/murtad-kafir-or-zindeek-ki-tareef/-0001-11-30

The penalty of blasphemy being death is established amongst Muslims throughout Islamic history. Publicly claiming against it will place one in a very dangerous situation.

Isn't it a form of blasphemy when we do the exact opposite of what our Prophet (PBUH) expected of us every day --- when we lie, cheat each other, take/give bribes and satisfy our blood-lust using religious excuses? That is the real blasphemy --- we have made a mockery of our beautiful religion.

No it isn't the sin of blasphemy, it is the sin of lying, cheating, bribery etc. Please don't try to pervert the definition of blasphemy that is well established. Thank you.

We don't give a sh*t about our religion in our daily lives --- except in highly select topics: what our women wear, how long our beard is, how many times we pray in a day (surely it's important to pray but it is not the be-all, end-all of being a a faithful Muslim) and, perhaps most importantly, how others are good or bad Muslims. This is where our Islam starts and ends. Where is the Islam of compassion, equality, honesty and justice? Nowhere to be seen. But what you do see are bigger beards, more "naat" ringtones and more mob violence. Kind of reminds me of when the mullah crowd destroyed the property of fellow Pakistanis when protesting against some idiot in Denmark who drew a disrespectful cartoon.

The answer isn't to start questioning blasphemy, but rather to renew our efforts to implement the proper religion in our own lives and spread this message amongst our brethren.

How can the State punish someone who is simply accused of blasphemy without any proof? What constitutes blasphemy?

This is a plague, and these animals who killed Mashal should be hanged publicly for doing the exact opposite of what our Prophet would have wanted.

The definition of blasphemy can be found here:

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/islam-may-shatim-e-rasool-ki-saza/-0001-11-30

There are already well established principles for reporting and prosecuting a crime. The same should be followed for blasphemy.

There are many such 'animals'. I posted these links earlier as well, and re-posting them again. Please have a look:

https://www.dawn.com/news/302796

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1011875/pent-up-aggression-mob-burns-robber-to-death/

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/182609-Robber-thrashed-burnt-to-death-by-mob-in-Landhi

So you agree that all these people are animals right? My question is, why didn't the supreme court take suo moto notice against these? Why wasn't a thread started against this on defence.pk? Why all the hue and cry when the crime is blasphemy?

 

[TankMan]

Unfortunately, what you are telling me is that you have no idea how Sharia and its commandments work. This thread is not about teaching the basics of Islamic theology and jurisprudence, so not much else can be discussed.

What I am telling you is that Quran takes precedence over any Hadith in terms of Sharia and Islamic jurisprudence. Now tell me, O great scholar, which part of this is wrong?

I have a very good idea about how Sharia works - respond to my argument, don't resort to personal comments.

Hadith must be studied in light of the Quran. Rulings derived from hadith can not be allowed contradict the Quran. That is an undisputed principle.

 

[M. Sarmad]

.. Blasphemer is the basis of fitna and fassad because if blasphemer is free to promote his ideas especially using social media it will turn Muslims with less knowledge and weak faith in to blasphemer and they will loose their faith.I think facebook and social media should be banned in Pakistan as the number of blasphemy cases have increased after introduction of social media in Pakistan.

Blasphemy and all type of hate material/speech should be banned.

Long prison sentences and heavy fines should be imposed on repeat/habitual offenders, but not death sentence .. unless the blasphemer is also involved in other crimes (Fasad/treason/rebellion against the state etc.), besides committing blasphemy.

Banning Social Media will prove counterproductive in the long run. Just Avoid blasphemous content, and report any kind of hate speech you come across on internet. If needed, complaints can be filed on state level also. But banning social media (- throwing the baby out with the bathwater-) is not the solution.

 

[The Sandman]

ghamidi seems to be a balanced guy I like his exegesis though I have to admit I know very little about religion so I may be wrong. What do you think sir

Yes so far from what i have saw in his videos he seems to be a balanced guy if i am not wrong someone accused him of blasphemy too i think i saw it on Hamza Ali Abbassi's FB and don't worry if you don't know much about religion you will start to after all Islam encourages us to read.

Allama Iqbal attended the funeral prayer of Ghazi Ilmuddin Shaheed and there are pictures of this.Blasphemer is the basis of fitna and fassad because if blasphemer is free to promote his ideas especially using social media it will turn Muslims with less knowledge and weak faith in to blasphemer and they will loose their faith.I think facebook and social media should be banned in Pakistan as the number of blasphemy cases have increased after introduction of social media in Pakistan.

Looks like you didn't even bothered to read Azlan's post did you? and those Muslims who have less knowledge and weak faith than it's not the problem of social media it's their problem why are they not doing research on their own? why they don't try to read if what the blasphemer is saying are lies or truth?

and don't ban social media only than ban INTERNET and go back to caves because what is available on social media is not even 10% of blasphemous content that is available on internet so if you want to protect the "weak faith less knowledgeable Muslims" than ban internet.

 

[Verve]

Perhaps we should do what EU has started doing ... revoking citizenship and deporting of criminals.

Anyone who commits blasphemy, specifically the serious ones, should be stripped of their nationality, all assets confiscated and exiled to whichever country that'll happily take them. Lifetime ban on entry.

But then liberal brigade would not like that either. They just want to give free hand to everyone to insult whomever they feel like.

 

[CriticalThought]

What I am telling you is that Quran takes precedence over any Hadith in terms of Sharia and Islamic jurisprudence. Now tell me, O great scholar, which part of this is wrong?

I have a very good idea about how Sharia works - respond to my argument, don't resort to personal comments.

Hadith must be studied in light of the Quran. Rulings derived from hadith can not be allowed contradict the Quran. That is an undisputed principle.

Answered in detail here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/qr-bra-a-tm-n-nba-nam-l-r.489742/page-11#post-9391396

 

[Verve]

Long prison sentences and heavy fines should be imposed on repeat/habitual offenders, but not death sentence ..

Send them in exile instead completely empty handed (all assets frozen etc etc) .... never to be returned. No place in Pakistan for such people.

Would that be acceptable for the liberal brigade?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Perhaps we should do what EU has started doing ... revoking citizenship and deporting of criminals.

Anyone who commits blasphemy, specifically the serious ones, should be stripped of their nationality, all assets confiscated and exiled to whichever country that'll happily take them. Lifetime ban on entry.

But then liberal brigade would not like that either. They just want to give free hand to everyone to insult whomever they feel like.

you want tens of thousands of blasphemies per day sir

 

[Verve]

you want tens of thousands of blasphemies per day sir

Well, these Western influenced liberal brigade loves them so much so what's the harm in exporting such lot out of Pakistan.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Chacha, Azaan hasn't been banned in those countries on religious grounds.

Five times a day the Muslims announce through loud speakers in Non Muslim Lands that there is no god but Allah -- implying that the Gods they (i.e. the Non Muslims) worship are false gods-- ...... Does it not hurt the religious sentiments of the Non-Muslims now ?? Our sense of superiority and entitlement !!

And no one is asking to unban blasphemy in Pakistan. It's about the harsh and disproportionate punishment. 295-C mandates death penalty for all blasphemers. And if you want to draw parallels, Please name those Non Muslim countries that hand out death penalty to those who violate Azan ban ...

Have you read your own post , self contradictory , As you said Azaan hurting the emotions of local population so they banned it , Then Y there is a problem with Blasphemy (that is only on Muslim Majority country ) .There is no concept and Law in West for Blasphemy so no death plenty. But they have Very strict law against holocaust and "hijab". And I used Azaan as example , for killing Just see what is happing in India on COW............ I hope that will make sense .
In France if I remember correctly 2 women got killed only because they were wearing Hijab , Y west is banning it , don't you think banning Hijab promoting people to kill Muslim women? ....... What will you say about this?

In India Hindus are in majority and Cow is there Holly animal and they are passing law after law and punishing people with death ...... What will you say ????? For once forget 295-c and answer about my question for Azaan banning ?? As you said Azaan is banned because it goes against the majority , And in India there is punishment for that to (but not death by Law).

There is no problem with the Law , If you want to understand (really want to ) , Problem is with system and people ...............
Law is there and providing lots of benefits (which you don't want to understand) , Problem is with Govt , System and Implementation.
Let me give you an example here , Do you remember a Blasphemy case in Islamabad about a Christian Girl and A Molvi , What happened to that ? Girl was innocent and got free , But What about That Molvi ,,,, What did Govt did ........ Law says If you Accuse some one for Blasphemy and He/she prove innocent then you will face the same Punishment as Accused will face if Proven guilty so , Who's fault is this , Law or Govt and System???
295-c is there for a reason but you don't want to understand that.............

 

[Divergent]

The State's got this and won't let overly emotional danda types affect logical laws which contradict Faith, enhance & protect the Country and its citizens. They are far more knowledgeable.

Let them digest its not implemented for a reason

 

[CriticalThought]

The State's got this and won't let overly emotional danda types affect logical laws which contradict Faith, enhance & protect the Country and its citizens. They are far more knowledgeable.

Let them digest its not implemented for a reason

it's not implemented because the government is run by people of questionable religious practice. The prime minister has already been accused of Kufr. There are ministers who have not been able to recite basic surahs from the Holy Quran. Many of them are known to drink alcohol. What should we expect from them? So as you can see, people are taking the law in their own hands. Too bad, really.

 

[TankMan]

The penalty of blasphemy being death is established amongst Muslims throughout Islamic history. Publicly claiming against it will place one in a very dangerous situation.

None of this addresses the fact that it directly contradicts the Quran.

The following Aayah of Quran immediately makes all commands of the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam as compulsory and mandatory upon all Muslims

'follow me' doesn't mean 'all commands are compulsory forever', read that verse carefully and be reasonable; wartime commands can not be applied at all times. For example, when the Prophet (s.a.w) gave the command to build a trench before the battle of Khandaq doesn't mean all Muslims should build a trench at all times forever.

Also, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) never said 'kill all blasphemers'. He named specific people. He said 'kill Ka'b bin Ashraf', for example. Even if that command applied to all times, it was specific to certain enemies of Islam.

Your reasoning is flawed, and you still haven't answered to those Quranic verses that recommend being patient and turning away from blasphemers.

So you agree that all these people are animals right? My question is, why didn't the supreme court take suo moto notice against these? Why wasn't a thread started against this on defence.pk? Why all the hue and cry when the crime is blasphemy?

Because the distortion and misuse of religious ideas to kill someone is a worse crime. It is not only an attack on the victim but an attack on Islamic values.

No one here is saying that blasphemy is ok. It is absolutely haram and a shameful deed. If you are saying that blasphemy is wrong, I agree with you.

But killing someone over it is not proportionate, and even a more lenient punishment can not be enforced without evidence, especially when the accused says he did not do it.

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition. [16:90]

The blasphemy law is unjust, and it is too often misused to kill innocents. Mob violence is fasad exemplified. All inquiries into Mashal Khan so far have shown that he was not guilty of blasphemy. Yet he is dead. That's why there is hue and cry.

 

[Verve]

Let them digest its not implemented for a reason

Now that's your argument all of a sudden, good try!

Madam, you are either lost or still 'damag ki kachi'

 

[CriticalThought]

None of this addresses the fact that it directly contradicts the Quran.

'follow me' doesn't mean 'all commands are compulsory forever', read that verse carefully and be reasonable; wartime commands can not be applied at all times. For example, when the Prophet (s.a.w) gave the command to build a trench before the battle of Khandaq doesn't mean all Muslims should build a trench at all times forever.

Also, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) never said 'kill all blasphemers'. He named specific people. He said 'kill Ka'b bin Ashraf', for example. Even if that command applied to all times, it was specific to certain enemies of Islam.

Your reasoning is flawed, and you still haven't answered to those Quranic verses that recommend being patient and turning away from blasphemers.

So are you saying (Ma'aaz Allah, summa ma'aaz Allah) that the Holy Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam contradicted the Aayaahs of Holy Quran when he ordered the killing of Ka'b bin Ashraf?