Punjabi and Urdu - Are they two different languages?

[fastbreeder]

urdu is just a hotch potch of vaious indian and central asia languages, spoke by illiterate soldiers. and this was polished by indians in the gangetic plains to make it look nice. after partition a lot of urdu speakers went to pakistan. so basically urdu is the spread of the ind gangetic islavnic cultural language

 

[livingdead]

Oh bhai there is nothing to be ashamed of ! Our languages are intermingled with each other; you'd find the Punjabi of further south having a lot of Saraiki loan words to it whereas you'd find from up North with a lot of Hindko, Gojri etc. loan words to it. Similarly the Punjabi of Lahore has a lot of words from Urdu incorporated into it which has reduced its sharpness or bluntness somewhat a little like how Pashto has two major dialects (one where you call Peshawar as Peshawar whilst the other where you call it as Pekhawar & similarly Pashtun & Pukhtoon !)

was trolling bro........
but urdu is a dialect of punjabi? If you listen to Indian city kids, you will think English is a dialect of hindi.......

 

[FaujHistorian]

More refined? as in mixed with urdu,

No I meant refined.

As English spoken in high society Boston vs. English spoken in a booney town of Appalachia.

punjabis there are ashamed that they speak a dehati language?

Please keep the discussion intellectual. You are now talking like my dirt poor, village cousins from Bihar.


thank you.

urdu is just a hotch potch of vaious indian and central asia languages, spoke by illiterate soldiers. and this was polished by indians in the gangetic plains to make it look nice. after partition a lot of urdu speakers went to pakistan. so basically urdu is the spread of the ind gangetic islavnic cultural language

Refined in Gangatic Plains? ha!

Can you name some major cities where Urdu prose and poetry developed in the 19th and 20th century (long before 1947).

Thank you

 

[fastbreeder]

No I meant refined.

As English spoken in high society Boston vs. English spoken in a booney town of Appalachia.






Please keep the discussion intellectual. You are now talking like my dirt poor, village cousins from Bihar.
bhopal, agra, delhi, awadh they all had their own tehzeeb.. paksitan at that time was a military garrison - place like lahore etc. Lahore became important not for urdu culture.
urdu was totally in the peak in modern day UP muslim culture

thank you.




Refined in Gangatic Plains? ha!

Can you name some major cities where Urdu prose and poetry developed in the 19th and 20th century (long before 1947).

Thank you

lucknow.. was the centre of the world

bhopal, delhi, agra, allahabad.. they all were classic. lahore was not there in the litereary scene. it was an importsnt place for military.
in fact pak had urdu only when mohajir went there.

 

[FaujHistorian]

lucknow.. was the centre of the world

Yeap Luknow was one.

But Mriza Ghalib was from Lucknow?

Prem Naath Bazzas, Prem chand were also from Lucknow.

Ismat Chughtai was from Lauknow?


Thank you

 

[Armstrong]

was trolling bro........

Damn you for making me write so much !

But I think I'll torture you still !

For example outside Lahore people would say - 'Tussan kii karan daii ohhh' when asking someone what are they doing ! But in Lahore it would most probably be 'Tussii kii kar raheii ohhh' ?

You see in the former there is a sharpness to it whereas in the latter we've incorporated 1-2 Urdu loan words !

Waiseee @LoveIcon ko Punjabi bilkul bhi nahin aaatiii !

 

[fastbreeder]

Yeap Luknow was one.

But Mriza Ghalib was from Lucknow?

Prem Naath Bazzas, Prem chand were also from Lucknow.

Ismat Chughtai was from Lauknow?


Thank you

ghalib was from delhi. chightai was from somewhere else in india. but in general i am saying .. urdu means lucknow and UP culture.
Urdu in Pak picked up only after mohajir migration.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Damn you for making me write so much !

But I think I'll torture you still !

For example outside Lahore people would say - 'Tussan kii karan daii ohhh' when asking someone what are they doing ! But in Lahore it would most probably be 'Tussii kii kar raheii ohhh' ?

You see in the former there is a sharpness to it whereas in the latter we've incorporated 1-2 Urdu loan words !

Minor correction

Tussi - you (spoken with respect)
Keeh - What?
Kar - Doing
Rahey - adverb

can all be found in ancient Punjabi poetry that even predates Baba Nanak.

So I am not sure which of these words you think are "urdu".

Thank you

 

[livingdead]

No I meant refined.

As English spoken in high society Boston vs. English spoken in a booney town of Appalachia.

Please keep the discussion intellectual. You are now talking like my dirt poor, village cousins from Bihar.


thank you.

You already got an intellectual response from armstrong. Should sometimes listen to your poor bihari village causins.
Especially when you dont have time for bs.

 

[Rusty]

I can speak Urdu but find it nearly impossible to speak Punjabi.
I think they are different languages with certain commonalities.

 

[Armstrong]

Minor correction

Tussi - you (spoken with respect)
Keeh - What?
Kar - Doing
Rahey - adverb

can all be found in ancient Punjabi poetry that even predates Baba Nanak.

So I am not sure which of these words you think are "urdu".

Thank you

Kar & Rahey !

For example - Faujihistorian kal uss blondie ke saaath khareii hoveii kiyaa kar rahey theiii, lagta hai Bhabi ko batana hi paraiii gaaa !

I can speak Urdu but find it nearly impossible to speak Punjabi.
I think they are different languages with certain commonalities.

Adab, kaiseii mizaj hain huzoor keiii ?

 

[fastbreeder]

Yeap Luknow was one.

But Mriza Ghalib was from Lucknow?

Prem Naath Bazzas, Prem chand were also from Lucknow.

Ismat Chughtai was from Lauknow?


Thank you

correct myself i would say the Doab region and not just gangetic plain.

 

[livingdead]

Damn you for making me write so much !

But I think I'll torture you still !

For example outside Lahore people would say - 'Tussan kii karan daii ohhh' when asking someone what are they doing ! But in Lahore it would most probably be 'Tussii kii kar raheii ohhh' ?

You see in the former there is a sharpness to it whereas in the latter we've incorporated 1-2 Urdu loan words !

Waiseee @LoveIcon ko Punjabi bilkul bhi nahin aaatiii !

As long as you keep it civilized (by which I mean not try to kill me with 1000 word post).. I will tolerate the torture..
So basically you are saying the same thing, lahori punjabi has a bit or urdu. Okey lot of urdu.
That hardly makes urdu a dialect of punjabi. But then you already agreed with me, but being a rich city dweller from punjab you will be a bit nicer in the way you say it..

 

[FaujHistorian]

ghalib was from delhi. chightai was from somewhere else in india. but in general i am saying .. urdu means lucknow and UP culture.
Urdu in Pak picked up only after mohajir migration.

It is obvious that you have deprived yourself from the vastness of Urdu literature.

And now just arguing based on heresy (sunni-Sunnai-baatain).

There were three (or perhaps 4 if you include tiny contribution from Hyderbad Daccan) major intellectual centers where Urdu evolved in the 18th to 20th century.

1. Lauckow - Mir Taki Mir, Mir Babar Anis, Dabeer,jigar,
2. Delhi - Mirza Ghalib, Mirza soda, Khwaja Mir Dard, Zauq,Firaq
3. Lahore - Prem Chand, Iqbal, chughtai, Bazzaz
4. Hyderabad - Josh


This is just a small set of examples to share with you how Urdu evolved BEFORE 1947. And No Lucknow was not the only city.

I hope you can see that I love the languages especially urdu and I have studied Punjabi too. Sufiana kalam in Siraiki is awesome as well.


peace

 

[Armstrong]

As long as you keep it civilized (by which I mean not try to kill me with 1000 word post).. I will tolerate the torture..
So basically you are saying the same thing, lahorei punjabi has a bit or urdu. Okey lot of urdu.
That hardly makes urdu a dialect of punjabi. But then you already agreed with me, but being a rich city dweller from punjab you will be a bit nicer in the way you say it..

I'm not a rich city dweller - Oh how I wish !

Well actually...naaah wealth is overrated !