Punjab govt decides to celebrate basant

[War Thunder]

Basically more of a rural tradition adopted by Lahore. Actually done to celebrate spring arrival.

Tradition or begharatpana?

 

[Toppo900]

Try telling that to Arabs, or Turks or Iranians .. They will show you your place

And there is a difference between Islam and Arab tribal culture which is obviously lost on you

We are Muslims and we are Punjabis .. No contradiction there

Well, my step dad is Pakistani and I love Pakistan and her people. No need to put all Arabs under the same basket.

 

[Yogijaat]

Well, your perspective regarding it is quite wrong. Smartphones/electronics, cricket, hockey are all created by non-muslims, how can a self-respecting Musalman celebrate world cups and what not?...

The issue here is how basant is celebrated in our country. It is basically an un-organized skill based event and in this game there are no rules. The sky is battlefield and every kite in the sky except yours is the enemy, the goal of the event is to beat as many kites as you can while having fun doing so. Usually Chinese kite-flying is quite bland, people fly kite and they stand there reeling it out and reeling it in. But here in our culture it is a competition like kushti/wrestling etc.

The original reasons might be different, but why we Pakistani's celebrate it in spring is because of the weather. You can't do it in summer because of low wind flow and heat. You cant do it in winter because of cold and rain, you cant do it in autumn, because of dampness in wind and fast wind flow. That's why spring is chosen and the date for basant is set not because of some religious reason's but because of a committee, so that every one is on the same page. There have been various occasions when basant had to be postponed because of weather conditions. The reason it is on one day is to have maximum number of kites on the sky so that it doesn't get boring. So that you are in a continuous competition.

Plus it appeals to everyone. Even the poor can get into the fun, for them it's like fishing, all they have to do is wait and they can grab/loot other peoples kites. For boxing you need gloves, for cricket you need bat/ball, for football you need football, but for flying a kite, if you don't want to spend a dime, it's totally up to you.

All in all, it send's a positive/colorful image of the country. We need to loosen up a little bit, not because of our economic reasons but because of mullah extremist ideology that we have inherited after zia. If it were up to mullah's there wouldn't be any music, films, dramas, games, poetry etc. The world at first needs to see you as human. Baki, about faith, god works in mysterious way's, for some foreign people 'Tajdare Haram' naat by atif asalam might have introduced Islam to them, it reminds me of the incident where an MTV host became muslim after meeting Imran Khan, and I heard she was quite intrigued by nusrat fateh ali khan's qawali, that's what brought her in to do her research on Islam. I am going off the tangent here, but basically the world sees you as long bearded, shouting, suicide bombing terrorists. Now this image doesn't change over night with all the western media being against. So you need to lighten up your image as much as you can, be inclusive as much as you can. Faith, itna kacha bhi nahi hona chahiye k gana sunnany ya patang urana se toot jye..

On our side it's not decided by some comittee and we do celebrate it religiously.
Hindus even in Bali celebrate basant.

 

[Hareeb]

Its a welcoming step indeed. Thousands of families were linked to this business before it was banned. In adddition to celebration, it will create employment opportunities as well as a rise in tourism.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am somewhat conflicted.

As a child, I used to fly kites in Pakistan with friends/family and I remember having a lot of fun in Basant. There also was music, horse dancing, and tents set up with fun shows for kids.

Pakistan at that time was very safe. Young kids could run around unattended and be completely safe. We used to regularly run around to watch as older kids showed us their kite battling skills.

When Pakistan banned Basant, I understood the rationale. Kids' necks were getting sliced by modified strings as they were watching from roofs and balconies. However, someplace my heart felt sad for it.

Now, I learned that Basant was a custom which Sikhs brought to Punjab during the Sikh Empire.

We stopped Nau Roz also, which was actually a big link to our brothers and sisters in Iran and Afghanistan.

If we ban Basant, maybe we should introduce these kite traditions in some other holiday or in some other safer way.

 

[ALi Rizwan]

Bad decision loss of life and massive financial losses to Wapda.
The best way is to celebrate it in open sites away from major population.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

No need to put all Arabs under the same basket.

Shhhhh they don't understand common sense.

 

[HariSinghNalwa]

Some of the claims are ludicrous ,Basant Panchami is festival not invented by Ranjit Singh at all ,he was the the one who started it celebrating in state level ,it is just a festival celebrated after winter and marking arrival of spring with Kite flying

 

[Max]

It's our culture,. Btw why bring religion? It got nothing to do with religion.

 

[Death Professor]

Household items and communal activities are not the same as annual celebrations which hold no benefit you cannot equate the two.

Well, why you are differentiating it to be a non communal activity. And it is is even more inclusive, a kid has the same success chance as an adult. In game theory, it has pay to win model, with one having the better dore-kuddi, has a benefit, but it is also free-to-play, any one can join in. Football is praised more, as compared to religion in Brazil, we should stop playing football because of that? no. World cups, Olympics hold every year, people are religiously glued to their TV's and those are non-inclusive, you are treated as a viewer and not as a player, while in kite-flying you can be a playa

And modern-day advances in technology are based on previous Muslim achievements, such as the famous work of Al Khwarizmi (without him we wouldn't have Algorithms, and as a result no smartphones or advanced electronics of any kind).

Well it's about time that we stop taking credit of some few geniuses born 500-1000 years ago. I get into an argument with indian's here where they start barging about the numeral 0. The whole thing doesn't change the fact
all modern-day advances have been done by the non-Muslims. We should learn from history and move on, instead of living in the history.

I don't care if people fly kites, so long as they don't do it as a celebration of Basant or treat it as an annual celebration I'm perfectly happy. Even if they do the latter, I'll just let them be. But the moment they start doing it and calling it Basant, I'm going to call them out on it because that's just stupid.

Well now you are going in to semantics. I personally don't care whatever the name of the event is. You don't want it as an annual celebration well that's an issue. Usually if there are not many kites it's not fun, people have jobs/schools, if it is open kite-flying every day it is not practical, it's like a 5-day test match, it drag's on with out any thing happening. Allotting it a single day makes, it not even a 20-20 but a 10-10, so much fast paced and fun. It's not a 'celebration' it's an event, so stop being hung up on words and link it with religion. Do you think a kid or an adult in Pakistan cares where basant came from? They don't care and they don't link it with religion, all they want is an action packed fun-day. And since every body is on the same page it becomes a communal activity. If one wanted it to be on Monday other wanted it to be on Sunday, it wouldn't work out, so atleast need some form of official body to fix one day for it. And it's not like the event is given some national pride, by allotting it a national holiday. People just choose to take a leave from their busy schedules.

Zia has been dead for a long time, stop blaming him for our woes.

Well the seed he has planted is still haunting and damaging us. You saw Lal Masjid in Musharaff era, and you see Khadim Rizvi in this era. Have you seen pictures of Pakistan pre-71? trams/modern double decker buses in Karachi, foreigners enjoying time on Karachi beaches. We were a tolerant-modern-happy society.

They'd be okay with films, drama games and poetry so long as it doesn't have anything haram.

Well, that's the issue here art has no boundary, you can't ban an evil-person shown drinking alcohol on screen, or killing an innocent on screen, that's not promoting violence or anything that's just plain story telling. (I don't want to go into this topic because it will deviate from the main topic)And the definition of Haram keeps on changing, depending to whom you are asking, A shia would say different to sunni, a cutter diobandi would be totally different to brelvi. And even in the same sects, there would two ullema's opposing each other, just because they have a different approach to the problem, and they all back up their claims by Quran and Hadith. It's just twisting contexts to satisfying their own agenda, and it's not like they do it intentionally, may be they just believe their word to be true.

I don't particularly care how the world sees me.

well, he doesn't particularly care too. The world doesn't work like this, there are consequences for actions, sanctions, isolation, and we are not blessed like some of the other countries who have oil. Just go and see the situation in Afghanistan, Africa and see the living conditions of people living in isolation. And when you are isolated, trade get's effected and when trade get's effected common people suffer. Currently, Pakistan is going through economic turmoil, people here don't have clean water to drink, we have health issues. Tourism bring's in dollar, it forces foreigners to spend their money here, which benefits businesses, which result in people having a better life. I personally, particularly do care about the conditions of my fellow Pakistani's living in Pakistan.

Edit: Btw, just plugging this in from the announcement.

The Committee will present its report to Chief Minister within eight days. In light of Committee's recommendations, Chief Minister Sardar Usman Buzdar will give final approval to celebrate the festival.

He said that Basant is purely a cultural, social and traditional festival which should not be linked to any religion.

If gov, is specifically mentioning it, that it has no link with religion then, why force your claim?

 

[RaGotimaar]

All the people expressing discontent with celebration of Basant saying it's haram don't have any problems celebrating the annual festivals of Birthdays, anniversaries, new years, Christmas, halloween, Thanksgiving. Even seen Pakistani immigrants celebrate Halloween and dress up for it.

 

[TMA]

Yes, very well so.
Even if it was the devil that did it, it was on these lands, now others are taking it and making an industry around it. With all do respect sir we as muslims need to forget, not forgive but forget. We cant be thinking about the past events and forsake our vibrant future as a colorful nation.
Regarding the Sikh empire, that's also a Pakistani empire now. It was a dark part of our history but it happened. I'll give you an example, the japanese despise the samurai, but they make millions around the world with the samurai culture. The samurai dont hunt them anymore but they still use it to fund their nations wealth. Do u understand what I am trying saying sir?
Celebrate your vibrant past and dont let it be stolen.

Bravo! Well said. Although I would say forgive but not forget.
The heartland of the Sikh empire was Lahore if I'm not mistaken.
Pakistani history doesn't start with British India as some Pakistanis may think.

Why are you self respecting musalman still call yourself punjabi....before sikh take over Muslims used to speak Persian and have different culture..
Maharaja ranjit Singh punibized you. Denounce your punjabi ethnicity and language too you goofs.
Local people living in different countries even if they are Muslims are allowed to have their own local customs. It is not wrong in Islam..
Next you would be ordering fatwa on army parades or everything that is about celebration.
What could ho wrong in fly in kites. Does flying kites count as religion..?
This is purely a tradition of lahore.
And these ganjas have destroyed it.
If they stop all those mafia of chemical dor. We are all for it.
Embrace your culture , or denounce it.
You are people of this land. Not migrated from saudia Arabia.
You have your local language, histroy and culture. Remember that today peshawar and fata was won by ranjit Singh and he formed this glorious kingdom where Muslims too are huge part.


Can you pea brain check that on the last basant in 1990s how much tourism came to Pakistan . You cannot even imagine that.
Don't mix a festival with basic necessities like education and health.
Considering the condition of education of our country, I can expect a comment like above from you.

Persian was banned by the British. Punjabi was spoken as well as a local language and Persian was the lingua franca even during the Sikh Empire. Muslims suffered a lot under the Sikh rule but no where as much under the British as the British systematically destroyed not only Muslim political power but their language Dari, their economic bases, the social structure and legal systems...

Personally if Basant is flying kites and celebrating Spring I do not see a problem with it i have more of an issue with celebrating Jan 1st as New Year but we are in a globalised world...

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Well, why you are differentiating it to be a non communal activity.

Because it's an annual festival.

Well it's about time that we stop taking credit of some few geniuses born 500-1000 years ago.

No, I'm going to keep playing that harp until people like you get it through their heads that many modern inventions wouldn't exist without Muslims.

Do you think a kid or an adult in Pakistan cares where basant came from?

They should, celebrating is a slap on the face of all of our ancestors who actively fought against the Sikh Empire.

Have you seen pictures of Pakistan pre-71? trams/modern double decker buses in Karachi, foreigners enjoying time on Karachi beaches. We were a tolerant-modern-happy society.

If foreigners wearing bikinis in a Muslim-majority country makes us a "tolerant-modern-happy-society" then I'm perfectly fine to live in the stone age, thanks.

A shia would say different to sunni, a cutter diobandi would be totally different to brelvi. And even in the same sects, there would two ullema's opposing each other, just because they have a different approach to the problem, and they all back up their claims by Quran and Hadith. It's just twisting contexts to satisfying their own agenda, and it's not like they do it intentionally, may be they just believe their word to be true.

On the overwhelming majority of things, all Sunnis (Barelvis+Ahl Al Hadith+Deobandis) are in agreement. Since Sunnis make up over 90% of the country, we can use the opinions of this group (specifically those of the Hanafi madhab). When it comes to disputed aspects, we should rule by what the majority of the Ulema in the country say or simply remain silent on such an issue. Simple.

And when you are isolated, trade get's effected and when trade get's effected common people suffer. Currently, Pakistan is going through economic turmoil, people here don't have clean water to drink, we have health issues. Tourism bring's in dollar, it forces foreigners to spend their money here, which benefits businesses, which result in people having a better life. I personally, particularly do care about the conditions of my fellow Pakistani's living in Pakistan.

If we pulled our act together we wouldn't have to be so reliant on others, or even have to care about our image. If we can produce what people want, we'll do fine, no matter how much they hate us. Ultimately, we must learn to fix ourselves without others helping us.

If gov, is specifically mentioning it, that it has no link with religion then, why force your claim?

Because the government doesn't know what they're talking about, and because our society allows for multiple opinions to be voiced.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Well, my step dad is Pakistani and I love Pakistan and her people. No need to put all Arabs under the same basket.

I didn't say Arabs hate Pakistan and its people. With very few exceptions, they just do not consider Pakistanis as equal human beings, let alone equal Muslims. For example, Pakistanis (all South Asians in fact) are treated as second-class citizens in all Middle Eastern Arab states. The 'Ummah' talk is a farce. Historically, Muslims were never one Ummah. In India, it was Arab imperialism followed by Turco-Mongol imperial traditions that is often regarded as 'Islam' and 'history of Muslims' by some simple-minded locals. They believe that their own culture and heritage is inferior and they try to dissociate themselves from their own roots and associate with the Arabs, Turks and Persians instead. This identity crisis has haunted Indian Muslims for centuries and it has become worse with the creation of Pakistan as now it's the state that, in order to justify its existence and hold different linguistic, cultural and ethnic groups together, propagates and sponsors religious-chauvinistic indoctrination via distortion.

 

[Death Professor]

Because the government doesn't know what they're talking about, and because our society allows for multiple opinions to be voiced.

Well, I guess you keep voicing your opinion, by the way if you know more than government, why don't you contest in the elections. And I guess people will decide with their votes and guess what you are going to do to oppose this gov? go against the current one and throw us back to the zardari's and the nawaz and the fazloo's, which is better in your opinion that if people die because of hunger or whatever but least they are not celebrating stuff?

If foreigners wearing bikinis in a Muslim-majority country makes us a "tolerant-modern-happy-society" then I'm perfectly fine to live in the stone age, thanks.

That's the problem here, we drag every thing to the extreme's. I didn't say, that bikini's should be the norm but being tolerant to what other people prefer, should be something we should strive for. 'Sabr' is principle in Islam, that we forget. If I were to drag you down to what you did here then, I would ask you why don't you move to Afghanistan? why do you need money, home, whatever? was taliban rule anti islam or barbaric? The issue is it didn't feel free society, people wanted more and in that society you can't get more because you are bounded. Iman is the thing between you and Allah and it should always be that way. If you start forcing your ideology onto others that is where the issue starts.

Turkey is a great example of modern Islamic state, financially they are reasonable, militarily they are sufficient, their industry is great, their governance is great, their people are happy. Why is it too hard to understand, why does "tolerant-modern-happy-society" directly relate to Las-Vegas in some people's mind? I am not asking to be exactly as Turkey, Pakistan has it's own identity, but still we should strive to un-do what has been done after Zia.

If we can produce what people want, we'll do fine, no matter how much they hate us.

For that you need equipment, industry, better work ethics and that's a gradual process not an overnight thing. And guess what all that need's money, which current gov is trying to get, whether it be through tourism, loans, exports or whatever. You think any of "Your muslim nation" will stand with us, if we start a war with china, India, US, Europe all together? Then you will say, no I don't want to start war with other countries.... So what does sanctions mean? it is isolation of trade, you say that we should produce some thing which world can't live without, what is that frigging thing? anti-matter? China needs soya it imports from US, US, needs chip manufacturing it gets from China, Singapore, Vietnam. Iran, Saudi's have oil. Russia have oil and weapons. WTF in this world world you have??? nothing-null-zip. We are not a super power we don't get to dictate how the world works, we have to play this game by others rules, whether we like it or not. Masharaff khara hota na america k khilaf during Afghan invasion, phir dekhtay apna haal. Even today no one criticizes Musharaf for his decision, the only thing which people complain is that he gave too much to American's while getting nothing in return, his diplomacy should have been better..

On the overwhelming majority of things, all Sunnis (Barelvis+Ahl Al Hadith+Deobandis) are in agreement. Since Sunnis make up over 90% of the country, we can use the opinions of this group (specifically those of the Hanafi madhab). When it comes to disputed aspects, we should rule by what the majority of the Ulema in the country say or simply remain silent on such an issue. Simple.

that's an issue here people didn't choose ulema to make decision on behalf of country. People chose elected leaders to make decisions for them. Search google and you will find fatwa's of ullema in favor of gay marriage, alcohol, bit-coin currency trade and other form's of gambling. I would't bet my life on what ulema's say. They are most corrupted souls on the planet.

No, I'm going to keep playing that harp until people like you get it through their heads that many modern inventions wouldn't exist without Muslims.

Keep on living in the fool's dream. I am not discrediting the great Muslim scientists, which gave us many things, but you here are surely discrediting all the great non-muslim scientists by your foolish statements(not that any one care's but still). Why did not YOU make an Iphone? why just tell me why? If our muslim ancestors prepped you up with their inventions, for every thing why personally you are not in-place of bill-gates? Forget about government's being corrupt or other excuses. why are you not the one to be introducing 4g, 5g technologies. You personally? why, why are you not Amazon CEO, why are you not a CEO of intel, why not the CEO of AMD. And these are not even the geniuses like Einstein, these are just CEO's or whatever's.. With their shitty electronic's.

but I am going to keep playing the harp that modern inventions wouldn't exist with out Muslims... The fact is it doesn't matter, currently. And in future bill-gates wouldn't even matter too. In future he will be a nobody too, he will be just a page in the history books. That's how history works, inventions in current gen or what will be in future gen is what matter's to us. Past is past, it's good to feel good about the glory days, but we don't live in the past, we should learn and move on.