Protestors warn of anarchy if blasphemy law changed

[SQ8]

Comparatively though.. my generation..those born in the mid eighties.. are generally less polarized..and more confused on what side to take..
either by lack of information.. or conflicting information.
However.. the reason for this is simple..
They settle on one viewpoint too quickly..without looking at all aspects of the picture..before reaching a decision.
Reading a book..has taken a backseat to facebook.

And yes.. I am very frustrated.. because everyday i meet my juniors, peers and superiors with varying views on the problem.. but very rarely any that show hope of a solution.. those that do.. are either that invoke "religion" like a child with a firecracker.. or shun it entirely like a blindfolded ostrich.. ready to bury their heads in the sand.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Comparatively though.. my generation..those born in the mid eighties.. are generally less polarized..and more confused on what side to take..
either by lack of information.. or conflicting information.
However.. the reason for this is simple..
They settle on one viewpoint too quickly..without looking at all aspects of the picture..before reaching a decision.
Reading a book..has taken a backseat to facebook.

And yes.. I am very frustrated.. because everyday i meet my juniors, peers and superiors with varying views on the problem.. but very rarely any that show hope of a solution.. those that do.. are either that invoke "religion" like a child with a firecracker.. or shun it entirely like a blindfolded ostrich.. ready to bury their heads in the sand.

Be it mid eighties or seventies or even sixties... our people are very frustrated... The best we can do in discussions is to take that much long awaited next step and ask people for solutions... We love talking about problems but never venture ahead and at times reject all discussion that is geared towards solutions...

Even God says this santro... Truly with hardship comes ease and to emphasise says it twice in the same place in the holy book... The good thing is that our youth today are not as irreverant as our previous generation were to their surroundings... and also remember that Mayoosi is Kufr... sometimes its also a good idea to go to the cinema and watch a good movie to take your mind off the troubles... go for a swim or get together with friends and go for a long drive... there are ways to beat the depressing feeling... You can also speak to God... that always sorts me out for a good while...

And most importantly (I learnt this after a while)... dont waste time on useless people... Only discuss things with people who are knowledgeable and understand issues from a broad perspective... You cant really find any pleasure in an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand so to speak... (unless you like roast ostrich)... lol

 

[bandit]

Perhaps a lesson in history would be wise, Jinnah never played the religion card and this is why religious groups like Jamaat-e-Islami-Hind, Khudai Khitmatagar, Majlis-e-Ahrar and the Deobandi's in general opposed him.

Had he wanted to use the Muslim card, he would been able to get the above mentioned fanatics on board. Similarly he would have gave into their demands of removing certain sects from the Muslim league and other demands that console the religious element.

Gandhi on the other hand introduced religion into politics, he supported the Khilafat movement while Jinnah opposed it.

Pakistan was meant to be a Muslim majority state compromising of the upper provinces of India. Even Iqbal said that the nation would not be an Islamic one, Jinnah himself vetoed Islamic constitutions and the 'Islamic' identity.

When he did mention Islam, it was to evoke the righteous things Islam tell us, to be equal, kind and all the other components of being on the right path.

Read my above post and if you need more, let me know, because Indians in general do not know much about what the purpose of Pakistan is and its foundations. You are just following the old line fed to you.

Ahh lesson in history...that sounds nice.

The case of Jinnah not wanting a religious state is a strawman and a separate issue.
Jinah did want a secular state that is right, but even he was not able to control the religious fanaticism he had invoked for the creation of Pakistan. Look at Pakistan today if you ask me for proof, was this society as polarized before creation of Pakistan as well?

As for Jinnah playing the religion card, he carved a whole country on the basis of religion, stating that religion is what unites a country and not shared history or culture, if that is not playing religion politics I don't know what is.

The end result that Jinnah wanted is inconsequential, it is the means he employed that shaped Pakistan into a religiously driven society that it has become, and that is what these people on the streets want today.
In the end, some educated blokes like you might decipher that Jinnah wanted a different Pakistan; but to those guys on the streets and some here on this forum, Pakistan is exactly as Jinnah wanted, a country existing for religion, and their voice seems louder than yours at the moment.

 

[Solomon2]

if Muslims read one book with some thinking and apply it in their lives as well as its implementation on the society, they will solve most of their problems... You mention that book i.e the Quran and yes our parents were at fault for not initiating the discussions in their good times which we are having to do at this crucial and painful moment in our history...

The Iranian mullahs championed much the same thing. Only once they were in power did they bother telling the people the specifics, and they were very terrible: dispossession of property, political suppression, war, and the crushing of the human spirit. (And, of course, any questioning of the mullah's actions was treated like blasphemy.)

So why should Pakistanis believe your vision is any better than that of the Iranian mullahs? Indeed, why do you believe this?

 

[mehru]

Ominous show of clerical power

There is an unprecedented rallying of the clerical parties against any changes brought in the blasphemy law or its procedures by the government. The first glimpse of what the clerics can achieve on December 31 came into full view on December 24 all over the country. It was also an expression of the high degree of discontent, among the men of God, over the nature and function of the state in Pakistan. Looking back over the past years, this kind of rallying of clerical power has rarely been seen.

The target of these post-Friday prayer protests, in various cities of the country, was the PPP and its office-bearers who are seen as minions of their ‘foreign masters’ bent upon allowing infidels to insult the Holy Prophet (pbuh). In the crosshairs was Sherry Rehman who has very courageously tabled a watered-down version of the law in parliament, aimed at eliminating widespread abuse of the blasphemy law in the country. The other target was Governor Punjab Salmaan Taseer who had dared to send a request of pardon for the Christian victim Aasia Bibi to President Asif Ali Zardari. After that the general target were the secularist renegades in all walks of life plotting to turn the state away from its Islamic identity.

The demonstrations were staged in Lahore, Karachi and Multan where the clerics have their strongholds and can mobilise their seminarian youths. The one at Lahore was 1,500 strong, calling aggressively for jihad to save the honour of the Prophet (pbuh). The JUI-F was up front, its leader shouting: “Pakistan was created in the name of Islam and we will not tolerate any attempt to amend the law.” The banned Jamaatud Dawa took out a rally of some 500 people in Lahore, its leader saying: “We will launch a national movement against all those lawmakers who support efforts to amend the law.”

In Karachi, over 2,000 clerics and their pupils came out protesting Ms Rehman’s draft law. In Islamabad, the upfront religious organisation was Tahaffuz Khatam-e-Nubuwwat led by the Barelvis whose tendency to defend the honour of the Prophet (pbuh) had at first put off the more strict Deobandis. But at this point, there is a convergence of interests among all the three schools of thought: Barelvis, Deobandis and Ahle Hadith or Wahhabis. The Islamabad rally was organised in part by the UN-banned Ahle Hadith Jamaatud Dawa whose lead in this campaign introduces a new intensity to the crisis. The Friday wave of protest was the result of an All-Parties Conference headed by the JUI-F’s Maulana Fazlur Rehman in Islamabad. Rawalpindi saw an impressive demonstration of clerical strength based on the mushroom growth of seminaries in the Islamabad-Rawalpindi area. The target was widened to include president of the Supreme Court Bar Association Asma Jahangir, the internationally-known human rights worker under whom the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan has produced voluminous literature cataloguing injustice done to minorities under the blasphemy law.

The Jamaat-i-Islami, one of the more organised religious parties in the country, has got the more tribal JUI-F on board finally, to raise the hope of reviving the religious alliance called the MMA which ruled Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa under Musharraf. Now, there is virtually no division among the various schools of thought. And this coming together of the clerics could be very destabilising for Pakistan, already under pressure from the international community to mend its extremist ways. It must be scary to the outside world to hear the deputy commander of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) Maulvi Faqir Muhammad of Bajaur say that the TTP will stand behind the nation-wide protest on December 31.

Al Qaeda, the global terrorist organisation that presides over religious extremism in Pakistan, has already pursued the policy of punishing those in the West who commit blasphemy through cartoons and by other means. It is a patron of the TTP and has its embedded cells in all the big cities of the country. The coming week could be an ominous demonstration of the extent to which Pakistan is politically unstable and to what extent its government has lost the capacity to control events that threaten the lives of the people.

Ominous show of clerical power – The Express Tribune

 

[Ignited Mind]

When is the due date for execution of Asia Bibi? What's the current status?

 

[mehru]

When is the due date for execution of Asia Bibi? What's the current status?

There is no verdict given to Asia bibi. Case is still pending in Lahore high court. The situation is a bit complicated. On one hand, parliament is trying to amend the law and on the other hand the religious "toola" is trying to pressurize Govt. The High court has postponed the hearing of the petition filed for Asia Bibi’s pardon, but it did not set a date to hear the case.

 

[muse]

The "Islamic liberation" of women folk in Pakistan took a giant stride in Pakistan's Bajaur Agency - a woman suicide bomber took out 43 kuffar who using sly and devious behavior such as lining up peacefully and worse still, lawfully, to receive food aid.

Pakistanis are slow learners, maybe the coming year will see accelerated rates of learning, regardless of the threats from the adherents of the god of fashion sense and explosives.

 

[Tin Man]

If asia bibi is executed, i will turn my back on the nation i call my homeland. It is still better in the civilized parts where people coexist peacefully. But i fear this infection which started in the outskirts will inevitably consume the nation.
And minority members like me would have no cause for loyalty or patriotism.

 

[ares]

Jinnah had no choice after the Hindu Congress started persecution of Muslims in 1937. He was called the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity, however Hindu hatred and persecution of Muslims forced him to change his views.

Please could you elaborate what were these persecutions..with links offcourse!!

 

[Xestan]

Are you trying to say that Muslims have become touchy about religion and that's why they are acting like this?


PS. The post was not directed towards you rather to that Rajput who was telling Aashiq that what it means to be good Muslim.

Sorry Miss, I thought he was a Muslim and I was just explaining him the basic idea of state of Pakistan.

Did I say something wrong in that?

Anyways, I support there should be procedural changes in the system NOT the law, the case should be handled with utmost care and the one who accuses the other of blasphemy should get the same punishment if he wrongly accused.

Now you're happy ?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The Iranian mullahs championed much the same thing. Only once they were in power did they bother telling the people the specifics, and they were very terrible: dispossession of property, political suppression, war, and the crushing of the human spirit. (And, of course, any questioning of the mullah's actions was treated like blasphemy.)

So why should Pakistanis believe your vision is any better than that of the Iranian mullahs? Indeed, why do you believe this?

As I said I would nt waste time on an ostrich with its head burried in the sand... and to understand certain things people need a certain capacity which you do not possess... its certainly above the capacity of an ostrich...

I do thank you for reminding us about the Ayotallahs i.e CIA assets in Iran who did a good job of destroying Iran after coming to power...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The "Islamic liberation" of women folk in Pakistan took a giant stride in Pakistan's Bajaur Agency - a woman suicide bomber took out 43 kuffar who using sly and devious behavior such as lining up peacefully and worse still, lawfully, to receive food aid.

Pakistanis are slow learners, maybe the coming year will see accelerated rates of learning, regardless of the threats from the adherents of the god of fashion sense and explosives.

Troll Alert!!!

 

[Ahmad]

If i was an enemy of Pakistan, i would have been really happy to see this law in place. it will damage pakistan in the long run, will alienate its milions of religious minorities, and eventually it will create a negative energy in the whole country, people will chase each other everyday for blasphamy issues without focusing on building and rebuilding issues. Another setback on top of many others.

 

[Xestan]

How many times am I going to post this reply to you.

This ‘Pakistan Ka Mutlab Kya’ slogan only become famous during Zia’s rule because he used religion as a political tool.

It wasn’t a popular slogan during the creation of Pakistan and Jinnah was infuriated when he first heard it.





Well he said that religion will have no role in state affairs, he said that Pakistan was not going to be a theocracy, he said it was not the business of state on what religion someone is.

He said we should all be Pakistani’s and that is it. Sounds secular enough or not.

How about this.



Or this

Do you know something, except the 11th August speech, there's NOTHING secular goons have to talk about, even these statements have NO authenticity.

if Quaid-e-Azam echoed this principle of the Quran on August 11 1947 by saying: “You are free, free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State,” then he was only affirming what the Quran has declared. It does not mean that he was advocating Western-style secularism, as its proponents would have us believe. Quaid-e-Azam knew very well what secularism meant. He does not need secularists to put words in his mouth.

Here are some of Quaid'e statements with authentic references from the Quaid e Azam University library.


Quaid-e-Azam said in his presidential address in 1940:

“It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders… The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literatures. They belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspects of life and our life are different.”

In his speech at the Frontier Muslim League Conference on
November 21, 1945, he said:

“We have to fight a double edged battle, one against the Hindu Congress and the British Imperialists, both of them being capitalists. The Muslims demand Pakistan where they could rule according to their own code of life and according to their own cultural growth, traditions and Islamic laws.”

In a message to NWFP Muslim Students Federation in April 1943, he said:

“You have asked me to give a message. What message can I give you? We have got the great message in the Quran for our guidance and enlightenment.”

In an Eid message to the nation in 1945, he said:

“Every Muslim knows that the injunctions of the Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. Everyone except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code; it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all, to those of each individual; from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet (S) has enjoined on us that every Muslim should possess a copy of the Holy Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines and rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society in every department of life, collectively and individually.”


Tell me, didn't Quaid say this? ^^^

And yeah, tell me, do you even consider Allama Iqbal to be the one who gave the vision of a new country to the Muslims? do you consider him Pakistan's national poet?

If yes, then my dear brother, start studying him, he was a PAN ISLAMIST, struggling for Khilafat in his poetry..

If he knew there's gonna be idiots demanding secular state after him, he would never have given the idea of a separate state.

This shayr of Allama is enough to answer you..

"Judaah ho Deen se siyasat..
Toh reh jati hai changezi"


And in last, if you wanna discuss this issue, we can make another thread and lets decide what was the idea of Pakistan, If I prove Quaid wanted a country based on the Islamic law described in Qur'an and Sunnah, you will say Sorry to Quaid that you called him a secularist

Ok?

And yeah, as someone above said, even if Quaid was secular(Nauzbillah), lets presume for the sake of argument, Decide now, are you a follower of Hazrat Muhammed Bin Abdullah [S.A.W] or Muhammad Ali Jinnah [R.H] ?