Procurement of new aircraft in PAF

[Manidabest]

Pakistan must look into eurofighter if possible. only 3 squadrons can do wonders for Pakistan and PAF should join TFX program

 

[The Accountant]

Pakistan must look into eurofighter if possible. only 3 squadrons can do wonders for Pakistan and PAF should join TFX program

Do Euro fighter have AESA upgrade package available?

 

[khanmubashir]

We should save our $ for fifth Gen jet procurement like tfx or j31 for now upgraded jf17 produced in large number would be sufficient

 

[Arsalan 345]

our neighbor soon deploy s-400 near border region.we must think wisely.we need a solution.deep penetration inside enemy territory is must.we need a modern fighter jet and we must select another fighter for anti radiation and anti ship missile role.

 

[ziaulislam]

No sir its highly advance jet, better than our F-16 blk-52, and PAF has no counter of Rafale, its a major threat for Pakistan @ziaulislam

its era of net centric war not a 1-1 dual

No sir its highly advance jet, better than our F-16 blk-52, and PAF has no counter of Rafale, its a major threat for Pakistan @ziaulislam

question is straight forward, is it better to spend money on improving jf-17 in line of gripen NG with pr buying a new jet..as of now its difficult to spend more than what we are spending on defense..the federal govt is running in primary deficit

 

[Chimgathar]

I guess PAF not procuring new jet out of arrogance leave alone lack of funds. Even if today uncle Sam baits us with old F-16s PAF will take that bait. Our Shaheens lack of vision and planning beyond F-16 or Mirages is quite disturbing and pathetic. As for JF-17 Block-3, first prototypes will be made for testing, whether it will match Rafale in capability or not, will remain a question mark for now. As for Rafale jet its a battle tested beast in its class.
One should never underestimate your enemy, and with enemy like India that is financially stable, abundant in quality military hardware, also that waits to strike only while opponent is weak or in a pinch. In an all out war IAF will only field these and other top tier jets against Pakistan. For now I doubt PAF has any dependable solution/ plan for Rafale or other similar threats.

 

[niaz]

I guess PAF not procuring new jet out of arrogance leave alone lack of funds. Even if today uncle Sam baits us with old F-16s PAF will take that bait. Our Shaheens lack of vision and planning beyond F-16 or Mirages is quite disturbing and pathetic. As for JF-17 Block-3, first prototypes will be made for testing, whether it will match Rafale in capability or not, will remain a question mark for now. As for Rafale jet its a battle tested beast in its class.
One should never underestimate your enemy, and with enemy like India that is financially stable, abundant in quality military hardware, also that waits to strike only while opponent is weak or in a pinch. In an all out war IAF will only field these and other top tier jets against Pakistan. For now I doubt PAF has any dependable solution/ plan for Rafale or other similar threats.

Honorable Sir,

Your criticism of PAF love of F-16 is undoubtedly valid if you take into account the sanctions issue. Nevertheless, PAF consists of the people who are expected to put their life on the line for the defence of the motherland. Don't you think that there may be genuine reasons as to why does the PAF like F-16 so much?

Since PAF management comprises of very experienced & competent fighter pilots; I would think that PAF brass knows more about the qualities of a fighter than you or me. Have you considered the possibility that in the PAF's opinion, F-16 may indeed be the most cost-effective platform that fulfills PAF requirements?

 

[denel]

Honorable Sir,

Your criticism of PAF love of F-16 is undoubtedly valid if you take into account the sanctions issue. Nevertheless, PAF consists of the people who are expected to put their life on the line for the defence of the motherland. Don't you think that there may be genuine reasons as to why does the PAF like F-16 so much?

Since PAF management comprises of very experienced & competent fighter pilots; I would think that PAF brass knows more about the qualities of a fighter than you or me. Have you considered the possibility that in the PAF's opinion, F-16 may indeed be the most cost-effective platform that fulfills PAF requirements?

... they are exactly what u said.. pilots not engineers or manufacturing/ R&D their vision is clouded by what they know vs having foresight of what can be delivered by independent thought/manufacturing complexes

 

[Basel]

No sir its highly advance jet, better than our F-16 blk-52, and PAF has no counter of Rafale, its a major threat for Pakistan @ziaulislam

Kindly elaborate why it is a game changer?? And why PAF cant handle this threat??

Many here dont understand that MKIs will be main threat along with Mig-29s, Rafales will be big boost and force multiplier but its not something which PAF can not handle in a short war, people should understand that the difference in capabilities will not be as huge as it was in 90s when IAF inducted MKIs.

The real game changer will be 5th gen of IAF and PAF know that that is why they are working on 5th gen bird.

 

[Quwa]

I guess PAF not procuring new jet out of arrogance leave alone lack of funds. Even if today uncle Sam baits us with old F-16s PAF will take that bait. Our Shaheens lack of vision and planning beyond F-16 or Mirages is quite disturbing and pathetic. As for JF-17 Block-3, first prototypes will be made for testing, whether it will match Rafale in capability or not, will remain a question mark for now. As for Rafale jet its a battle tested beast in its class.
One should never underestimate your enemy, and with enemy like India that is financially stable, abundant in quality military hardware, also that waits to strike only while opponent is weak or in a pinch. In an all out war IAF will only field these and other top tier jets against Pakistan. For now I doubt PAF has any dependable solution/ plan for Rafale or other similar threats.

I'd say money is still an issue.

The Navy has been able to push through with some programs, yes, but that's with line of credit offers extended by China and Turkey (esp. China x3). Sure, the same might be available to the PAF as well, but there's a limit to it and the PAF might not want to spend it on something today (e.g. J-10C) when it needs something for the future (FGF). I expect whatever credit packages China has offered to the PAF would go into Project Azm.

 

[ziaulislam]

I guess PAF not procuring new jet out of arrogance leave alone lack of funds. Even if today uncle Sam baits us with old F-16s PAF will take that bait. Our Shaheens lack of vision and planning beyond F-16 or Mirages is quite disturbing and pathetic. As for JF-17 Block-3, first prototypes will be made for testing, whether it will match Rafale in capability or not, will remain a question mark for now. As for Rafale jet its a battle tested beast in its class.
One should never underestimate your enemy, and with enemy like India that is financially stable, abundant in quality military hardware, also that waits to strike only while opponent is weak or in a pinch. In an all out war IAF will only field these and other top tier jets against Pakistan. For now I doubt PAF has any dependable solution/ plan for Rafale or other similar threats.

Apart from not pursuing the mirage2000 due your not envisioning the 1990 era of sanctions due to nuclear weapons do you have an alternative to f16?

F16 was cheaper and better than mirage2000. Gripen was briefly thought of but dropped for jf17 typhoon Rafael are 2-3x mite expensive ..su30 are expensive to operate..their availability is not known..while j10 is viable option ..if its cheaper than f16 it will be available but paf does in has money for the available f16 nor the j10

Your fiscal deficit is at 6.6%..it means you are borrowing 800 billion rupees more than what you can afford..almost the size of your defense budget and it also means you are borrowing in total 2000 billion rupees almost twice the size of defence budget every year

Bangladesh is better economy than Pakistan look at their budget

 

[jupiter2007]

Apart from not pursuing the mirage2000 due your not envisioning the 1990 era of sanctions due to nuclear weapons do you have an alternative to f16?

F16 was cheaper and better than mirage2000. Gripen was briefly thought of but dropped for jf17 typhoon Rafael are 2-3x mite expensive ..su30 are expensive to operate..their availability is not known..while j10 is viable option ..if its cheaper than f16 it will be available but paf does in has money for the available f16 nor the j10

Your fiscal deficit is at 6.6%..it means you are borrowing 800 billion rupees more than what you can afford..almost the size of your defense budget and it also means you are borrowing in total 2000 billion rupees almost twice the size of defence budget every year

Bangladesh is better economy than Pakistan look at their budget

Bangladesh would have been in worst shape if their border was active on both side and their leaders were like Nawaz and Zardari who destroy Pakistani industries and economy. Bangladeshi in thick and thin remain one quam. They are not divided like us.

 

[Signalian]

F16 was cheaper and better than mirage2000.

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1872&sid=e0a38f227b372e3e28f721291a29cd8e&start=45

 

[CriticalThought]

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1872&sid=e0a38f227b372e3e28f721291a29cd8e&start=45

Without any ammo, and being low on fuel, even a Mig-21 can take out F-16. Now repeat that engagement with AIM-9X and JHMCS and see what happens.

As far as I have seen in the videos of Greek F-16 vs Mirage-2000, the Viper driver keeps trying to best the Mirage in a pure turning fight where it has a clear advantage in instantaneous turn rate. If you keep banging your head against a wall, your head will get injured.

There is this mystique surrounding the Mirages which is undeserved. Aerodynamically speaking it's an average aircraft with instantaneous turn rate and high altitude performance being its sole advantage. In the early 2000s it compounded that with look down, shoot down capability. How good would it be against challenging ground clutter and sea environment? It's anybody's guess. Only people who have evaluated it would know.

At this point, inducting any new type of 3.5 - 4th gen fighter to bulk up numbers would be folly. We should induct a new type with next 50 years in mind.

 

[jupiter2007]

Majority of Generals are in American pocket. That’s one of the reason not investing in another fighter plane and there also other reasons.
If they offer, Pakistan should not ask for less than block 70. If we can get 25 used and 18 to 36 new block 70, we will be in good shape. Jf-17 block 3 will be operational by 2022 and hopefully 5th generation fighter by 2025.
Eventhough F-16s come with restrictions, their frame and engine life is more and operational cost is less than Russian planes.

If we can’t get F-16s, For stop gap purpose, Last resort will be to go for Chinese J-16.