Possible steps to counter the rising threat from IAF ?

[Munir]

Wrong and wrong
For starters the aim120's are already here. And since you are quoting things that haven't arrived for the IAF (And in some cases may never arrive)why are you not quoting the things that have not arrived for the PAF? have you not heard of the Indian procurement system?
Refuellers are on their way and so are AWACS of multiple types enoug to cover almost all of PAK
Also you forget serviceability rates I suggest you check them for the IAF

Your post has no merit.......do you not think we have discussed this in detail before?

SD10 have arrived. We do not have C5 till first block52... They are now in the planning.

 

[Zarbe Momin]

Can u give a link plz for SD-10, If they have arrived in Pakistan.

 

[Keysersoze]

SD10 have arrived. We do not have C5 till first block52... They are now in the planning.

dude the delivery schedule that i was shown was due to be complete in 2010. Could you PM me the info u have.

 

[hj786]

dude the delivery schedule that i was shown was due to be complete in 2010. Could you PM me the info u have.

That schedule was on the contract signing, without congress approval or something. They had to wait for the order/delivery to be approved by congress, no AMRAAMs in Pakistan yet. This is from Highsea on worldaffairsboard.

 

[white_pawn]

I think the perfect balance of both qunatity and quality plus pilot skill will do work

 

[batmannow]

keysersoze

what am i quoting that hasn't arrived? the 30 mig-29k? actually they will arrive in a few months and they already set up a base to maintain them and they expect them soon.

the 70 lca by 2015?

well they already ordered 20+10 trainers, there's 30 by 2012 already is it really that hard to make 40 more in 3 years? and lets not get into lca is failure discussion, remember what happened with brahmos? 1st test failure blah blah blah, 2nd test success and u still say failure, 3rd test and everyone shuts up. and let me tell u in 1st test and 2nd test the target was factory sized building, 3rd test was just a small target with 2 mirrors and it was hit dead on.

40 mrca?

contract signed in 2010 deliveries begin in 36 months aka 2013 in 2 years they would have at least gotten 2 squadrons(40).

fulcrum and mirage upgrades already done by 2015

240 mki's done by 2014 and production will change over to mrca and m2k and mig-29 upgrade lines are used for lca production.

and lets be honest, even if aim-120c5 has arrived, only the f-16 can fire them and they're outnumbered by the mki's 2:1 not to mention m2ks and fulcrums. and the chinese bvr... it cant be integrated with the mirage III, but maybe it can be integrated with the j-7s?

also the procuring policy... yes that does take years, but...
-they ordered Hercules in like 3 months?
-they ordered p-8 pretty fast too
-they got the trenton fast as well
-they're about to order the airbus tanker as well
-they ordered 2nd phalcon batch
-they ordered spyder even though company was black listed
-they ordered MRSAM even with kickback allegations

maybe its the real weapons that take so long (fighters and ships) because u need to find the best.

Seromontis;young sir,
plz prove it withe good links!

 

[Keysersoze]

Seromontis;young sir,
plz prove it withe good links!

This is the same guy who comes here and posts crap...he has been banned several times, don't bother answering him.....the fool should learn to read if he wants his answer.

 

[Viper 94]

I am sure everyone has heard the phrase "quantity has a quality of its own"
but i think it bullshit
what pakistan needs to do is to reduce the size of the army and divert those resources to the air force
air force and navy are alway the real war winners
Pakistan can never match the numerical superiority of indians what we can do is to improve technologically and maintain higher training.
one more suggestion
Pakistan air force needs a dedicated air superiority fighter f-16 and jf-17 are both designed to be multirole
maybe 1 or 2 squadrons of air superiority fighter such as eurofighter, f-15 or even chines j-11 could be a good option as a replacement for 2 of the squadrons of f-7p.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am sure everyone has heard the phrase "quantity has a quality of its own"
but i think it bullshit
what pakistan needs to do is to reduce the size of the army and divert those resources to the air force
air force and navy are alway the real war winners
Pakistan can never match the numerical superiority of indians what we can do is to improve technologically and maintain higher training.
one more suggestion
Pakistan air force needs a dedicated air superiority fighter f-16 and jf-17 are both designed to be multirole
maybe 1 or 2 squadrons of air superiority fighter such as eurofighter, f-15 or even chines j-11 could be a good option as a replacement for 2 of the squadrons of f-7p.

Hi,

You ought to have something in your inventory that your opponent is really concerned about-----. During the cold war---500 u s tanks were ready to take out 1500 russian tanks in europe.

The 1st gulf war showed that was the truth. Superior offencive weaponery has a force multiplier of its own.

Money excuses aside---F16 and JF 17 are not enough----. What if you neither have quality---nor do you have quantity---what yo gona do then!

 

[Viper 94]

Hi,

You ought to have something in your inventory that your opponent is really concerned about-----. During the cold war---500 u s tanks were ready to take out 1500 russian tanks in europe.

The 1st gulf war showed that was the truth. Superior offencive weaponery has a force multiplier of its own.

Money excuses aside---F16 and JF 17 are not enough----. What if you neither have quality---nor do you have quantity---what yo gona do then!

i guess rely on your better trained people
people are the most valuable asset of any organization
and i agree f-16 and jf-17 are not enough we need a dedicated air superiority fighter
that can protect the strike package consisting of f-16 and jf-17
su-30mki gives india a qualitative advantage and it going to increase as they induct rafaels
we should follow the israeli air force model despite being a smaller air force it is very hard hitting air force because they have role specific aircraft
around 85 f-15s for air superiority and around 300 f-16s for ground attack and multirole
most of the f-15s are striped down version of us f-15 because thats what they could afford
if a country as small a israel can create such an air force why cant a country of 180 million

 

[elitepilot09]

^ You clearly do not have an understanding of the relationship between the states and Israel. If you even think Pakistan can acheive that sort of air force, you are very mistaken. Israel has the firepower it has because of the strong manipulation, influence, power and control they have in the USA. On that note, you should also know that Israel paid fraction of the actual cost of all the military hardware it possesses, the rest was all "aid".

That's not to say that I do not want what you want. I would love to see 18-24 F-15's in the PAFs arsenal...

1. They would provide a great leap in strike capability in the FATA area, should PAF need to employ that strategy
2. There is some commonality between maintaining F-16s and F-15... such as the engines, weapons package etc.

Unfortunately, I think the day PAF decides to get F-15's is a wet dream which is simply too good to be true.

 

[Nishan_101]

I think PAC-CAC should try to help out and convince Egypt, Libya, Algeria and may be Tunisia and Morocco to get JF-17s and K-8s.

They can offer License production there for these aircraft and help them build facility for that.

Egypt has K-8s but not other countries.

 

[Viper 94]

^ You clearly do not have an understanding of the relationship between the states and Israel. If you even think Pakistan can acheive that sort of air force, you are very mistaken. Israel has the firepower it has because of the strong manipulation, influence, power and control they have in the USA. On that note, you should also know that Israel paid fraction of the actual cost of all the military hardware it possesses, the rest was all "aid".

That's not to say that I do not want what you want. I would love to see 18-24 F-15's in the PAFs arsenal...

1. They would provide a great leap in strike capability in the FATA area, should PAF need to employ that strategy
2. There is some commonality between maintaining F-16s and F-15... such as the engines, weapons package etc.

Unfortunately, I think the day PAF decides to get F-15's is a wet dream which is simply too good to be true.

forget Israel i was only using it as an example take south korea, turkey even Egypt there are so many examples of countries
smaller than pakistan yet they have a technologically advance air force

 

[elitepilot09]

forget Israel i was only using it as an example take south korea, turkey even Egypt there are so many examples of countries
smaller than pakistan yet they have a technologically advance air force

I understand what you're saying now.. however, you have to take in to the account the economies of the countries you have stated as well. If I'm not mistaken, South Korea's economy is behind only China and Japan in Asia, they have the money to spend and the States will provide them with virtually anything so long as they can afford it.

As for Turkey and Egypt, while their economies might not be as strong as South Korea, they still have deep pockets relatively speaking. Not to mention that Turkey is in NATO (gives them access to all kinds of weaponry and hardware), and Egypt is America's "greatest ally in the middle east"

I know it is frustrating... just look at Singapore. It is but a mere speck in South East Asia and it's air force packs an incredible amount of power. Pakistan is behind and all we can do is wait. Until the political and economic situation clears up, we will have to continue investing in JF-17 and our MLU F-16s.

There's 2 things that can give Pakistan a better qualitative edge while keeping in mind funds and affordability. We need a reliable long range SAM/Anti-ballistic missle systems. And later on, we need to purchase the additional 18 F-16 Blk 52's that were options in our earlier contract.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

F 15 was not available to pakistan but F18 was---. But pakistan needs to focus on Blk52 and upgraded aim 120---.

Here is a great read for those who believe that MY chicken little will do better than their Master blaster.

Enjoy

The Russian Philosophy of Beyond Visual Range Air Combat