Polls will be "massively rigged": Qayyum's tape

[fatman17]

The telephone conversation maybe authentic.

But, the issue is that could it not be a conjecture given the past history. He maybe basing his opinion on the past history of Pakistani election.

What may happen this election may be totally different with little or no rigging!

After all, international observers have been welcomed to check the elections!

the govt just cant afford rigging on a massive scale. 5-7% rigging will take place. we just have to wait and see.

 

[solid snake]

And What does rigging means ??????????????
And how many types of rigging prevail ????

Anyone kindly list by numbers here then we would see who is doing rigging

Rigging means to manipulate the result of the elections to suit the current government. This can be done by bribing election staff to record incorrect figures for votes to various parties. It can also be done through voter intimidation and deleting parts of the voter lists which contains supporters of opposition parties.

 

[Awesome]

massive scale is an overstatement. Even in 2002, the Pro-Musharraf candidates just managed to win by a short margin. To this day they rely upon the support given to them by MQM.

 

[solid snake]

A bomb blast has happened outside a polling station in Parachinar, killing 27.

 

[Spring Onion]

Rigging means to manipulate the result of the elections to suit the current government. This can be done by bribing election staff to record incorrect figures for votes to various parties. It can also be done through voter intimidation and deleting parts of the voter lists which contains supporters of opposition parties.

i know everyone will define rigging like above.

But do you think this defination is correct ???

Personaly from my personal experience as a student and now being from i had observed all the process and political parties very keenly so pernonaly i believe that this term Rigging has been limit by critiques and national as well as international observers.

By the defination you gave and others also do so means only the previouse government does rigging while my personal experince is that Rigging is more complex wherein all the political parties are involved and have multipal definations.

 

[solid snake]

The ruling party has the greatest opportunity and power to rig the election, even though all parties attempt it to some degree.

 

[blain2]

In Pakistan's history, claims of rigging have all been about perception and not facts. The losers in Pakistani elections have never been magnanimous in admitting defeat and moving on. Gents its about how much these career politicians have spent running for a slot in the NA or PA, so if they do not get a chance or their party does not get a chance, expect them to cry about it. This is Pakistan!

There is a precedence for extremely fair elections already set by Yahya Khan in 1970. He did what he was asked to fairly....I hope and believe that aside from minor issues of inaccessibility to polling stations, running out of ballot boxes, shootings etc., the elections would be ok....although the losers will cry foul and the international observers would come back and say, these could have been fairer...all in all, get ready for another incompetent coalition government which will help in slowing down the economy and spend most of its time digging up problems over the past 8 years instead of focusing on Pakistan's future...this is the cost to pay for the transition to democracy over wanting stability...being an optimist (despite my pessimistic post), I think eventually stability will come about but it will be a while.

 

[Spring Onion]

Rigging means to manipulate the result of the elections to suit the current government. This can be done by bribing election staff to record incorrect figures for votes to various parties. It can also be done through voter intimidation and deleting parts of the voter lists which contains supporters
of opposition.
The ruling party has the greatest opportunity and power to rig the election, even though all parties attempt it to some degree.

1. No it cant be done as votes are counted in presence of representatives of all the political parties talking part in the election.
So incorrect figures for votes cant be recorded.

2. Part of voters lists also can not be intimidation and no part can be deleted
beacause these the final voter lists are already been posted outside the election commission offices in all the cities of the country besides these are also pasted outside all the offices of the district governments including union councils and respective govt-schools many many days before the elections i think it was about two months back so that all the electorat could go and check if their names are there in lists or not.

In case of any name missing the person was asked to contact regional election commission office for correction.

3. Besides all the political parties have been provided with the lists much before.

4. i tell you even the smaller units (that wards in each constituancy) of the political parties have already published reciets containing names of each voters on their parties' publicity small leaflets hence by doign so they have complete data of the voters in each ward that falls under each constituancy.


5 And i tell you and intresting thing my family had already recieved the reciets of our votes containing Family Number (Gharana Number) Name, Voter Number, Ward Number, Constituency Number and even our National Idenity Card Number, from all the political parties and trust me in all the reciets there is not even a minutest error.

 

[Spring Onion]

Pakistan attorney-general denies 'rigging' comment

by Rana Jawad
Fri Feb 15, 5:08 PM ET



ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Pakistan's attorney-general Friday rejected a statement by a US-based rights group that said it had obtained a recording of him predicting next week's elections will be "massively rigged."


Human Rights Watch (HRW) said that in the audio recording Malik Qayyum appeared to be advising an unidentified person on what party the person should approach to become a candidate in the parliamentary poll.

"They will massively rig to get their own people to win. If you can get a ticket from these guys, take it," the voice on the recording says in Urdu, without identifying who would do the rigging.

Qayyum, a close ally of President Pervez Musharraf, said however that the allegation was "ridiculous... a conspiracy against Pakistan" and denied making the comment.

"It is a ridiculous allegation, totally baseless. I have never uttered these words," Qayyum told AFP.

"Why should I? The election commission is holding free and fair elections and I support free and fair elections."

HRW said the recording was made during a phone interview between the attorney general and a reporter in November 2007. Qayyum took a call on another telephone and his side of that conversation was recorded, it said.

But the attorney general said his brother was a member of the party of opposition leader Nawaz Sharif "so on the face of it it is absolutely nonsense."

"I am going to sue this organisation for defaming me, it's a conspiracy because I am close to President Pervez Musharraf. They just want to hatch a conspiracy against Pakistan," Qayyum said.HRW director Brad Adams declined to respond to the attorney general's warning of legal action, saying, "the recording in the tape speaks for itself."

Pakistan attorney-general denies 'rigging' comment - Yahoo! News

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

1. No it cant be done as votes are counted in presence of representatives of all the political parties talking part in the election.
So incorrect figures for votes cant be recorded.

2. Part of voters lists also can not be intimidation and no part can be deleted
beacause these the final voter lists are already been posted outside the election commission offices in all the cities of the country besides these are also pasted outside all the offices of the district governments including union councils and respective govt-schools many many days before the elections i think it was about two months back so that all the electorat could go and check if their names are there in lists or not.

In case of any name missing the person was asked to contact regional election commission office for correction.

3. Besides all the political parties have been provided with the lists much before.

4. i tell you even the smaller units (that wards in each constituancy) of the political parties have already published reciets containing names of each voters on their parties' publicity small leaflets hence by doign so they have complete data of the voters in each ward that falls under each constituancy.


5 And i tell you and intresting thing my family had already recieved the reciets of our votes containing Family Number (Gharana Number) Name, Voter Number, Ward Number, Constituency Number and even our National Idenity Card Number, from all the political parties and trust me in all the reciets there is not even a minutest error.

This is theoretically the ideal.

But theoretically, it is not correct to state things can't be rigged.

 

[Spring Onion]

This is theoretically the ideal.

But theoretically, it is not correct to state things can't be rigged.

Indeed can be but NOT by only one party.

All the parties are involved in these and i believe no party should cry over it.

I had seen with my own eyes how some most credited as democractic party used fake ID cards for polling votes.

 

[t-birds]

Parliamentary elections are scheduled for February 18 in Pakistan. Sadly, it is essentially irrelevant which party will come out strongest and what kind of government will result from the post-election political machinery. Pakistan faces a very real danger of collapsing as an effective national state, yet at a time when the country would need its political system for contributing to a sense of Pakistani “togetherness”, its politicians have long lost the capability to do so. There are signs that the Pakistani Army is preparing to take over.

Over the past decades, the country’s political domain has cut itself more-or-less loose from decently running the national state, instead, generally serving business interests, tribal interests, personal interests and combinations of those. This has become so deeply rooted and is so characteristic of Pakistani politics that the established, accepted role of the political system since long has only been to continue “business as usual” -and not effectively to run the country. Presently, powerful internal and external forces, varying from the US government to Pakistan’s intelligence service, ISI and from the Taliban to al-Qa’ida, have an active interest in the collapse of Pakistan, since they all need a new “battlefield” in the “War on Terror”. The only remaining force able to keep the country together used to be the Army. The Pakistani Army was, for decades, the backbone of the nation, at the same time being relatively shielded from day-to-day “togetherness” hiccups by the political domain that fills the formal state structure - but it remains to be seen if the Army can provide sufficient backbone under the present circumstances.

Losing effectiveness
It is clear that the Pakistani State is rapidly losing internal effectiveness. The assassination of Ms Bhutto, followed by a wave of suicide attacks and other violence, greatly helped produce nationwide chaos. At present, the average Pakistani citizen views himself at a greater distance from the State of which he is a citizen than perhaps ever before. The distancing process really took hold in the last quarter of 2007, when President Musharraf’s popularity plummeted into near-nothingness and when lawyers and judges staged protests against the President without actually achieving much - yet contributing to a public sense of chaos. Perhaps the protests from the legal professions were not orchestrated but at any rate they did help destabilize the country significantly.

To destabilize a country, it is crucial that a situation is reached where the “man in the street” loses sight of his place in the “bigger picture”, develops a sense of chaos and urgently starts looking for confirmation that the State still provides for the “bigger picture”. One cannot blame the average Pakistani citizen for feeling that he is looking in vain. Parts of the State’s physical territory (i.e. the Waziristan regions) are under the effective control of the Taliban; enemy forces have proven able to offensively conquer Army fortifications, et cetera. Ms Bhutto, although deeply immersed in political “clientele”-culture, would probably have been able to function as a sufficiently unifying symbol to stop - or at least delay - Pakistan moving further down the road to collapse.

But Ms Bhutto is out of the picture. The growing chaos was deepened by her military-style execution: a bomb to create chaos, sniper-crossfire to maximize a successful hit, a second bomb to destroy the crime scene and one or two visibly shooting decoys thrown in to be blamed. Not only did the Bhutto assassination disrupt the political theatre, it also signalled to the average citizen the helplessness of the State. Then, the state added to the proof of its ineffectiveness by not being able to carry out a transparent and credible investigation into the murder.

Tip the scales
Not very much more chaos may be needed to tip the scales sufficiently beyond the point of no return: a society’s conventions, rules and structures in a national state are not very likely to survive without the State; the people, without whom there is no State, need the stability that ensues from a coherent “bigger picture”. Deal a few more severe blows to the state and it may cease to function.

Now, parliamentary elections are soon to be held. However futile these elections are (i.e. whichever coalition of wheeler-dealer clans form a coalition government), a failure to properly execute the electoral process would largely cement the Pakistani State’s incredibility. For this proud 165 million population, for the country’s internal security and for reclaiming lost ground in the heads of the people, these elections must somehow become a success. The alternative is to lose more ground to those who profit ideologically from the creation of a new “battlefield” in the “War on Terror”. There is a significant chance that the elections will fail. The basic level of fear among the population has risen to a point where street violence easily turns into mob violence. Large masses running amok because they fear chaos may easily create more chaos. How difficult would it be to use snipers, have bombs go off, et cetera, during the elections? Recent Pakistani history has shown that such matters can be arranged well.

Gentlemanship and Manhood
With Pakistan’s political machinery unable to do more than project a – needed - semblance of Democracy - and with the absence of popular figures of political symbolism - there are signs that the Pakistani Army views itself as the only coherent and powerful entity that may prevent the country from at least reaching the point of no return. Not the 500,000 strong rank-and-file, of course; and not an incidental Colonel here or a Brigadier there. But there is a class of high-ranking officers that, by and large, runs the Army. For them, the Army is not simply a career but a way of life that stems from a tradition which mixes educated “colonial ‘ Gentlemanship with tough southeast-Asian Manhood. The majority of these officers adhere to tradition, not to politics. They supported Gen. Musharraf eight years ago when he started his attempts at stabilizing the country. Their support for the President has really withered away over the past year.

Nevertheless, the President has no intention of stepping down, perhaps incorrectly assuming that in doing so, he would contribute to the country’s misery. Credible sources say that over the past three, four months a virtual anti-Musharraf movement has come into being among this class of tradition-oriented top officers, urging the President to step down. They have two reasons: the President is doing much more harm than good, in terms of political symbolism and in safeguarding the physical integrity of the state; and the continued stay of this hugely unpopular retired Army General would seriously undermine the authority of any successor the Army would put forward, in case it decides to restore order (i.e. to undertake a coup d’état). According to knowledgeable sources, presently a growing group of influential “traditional” top officers, some retired, others on active duty, feel time working against them in their attempts to “save” the country. In convincing others of that, they even manage to get a growing group of somewhat more “political” officers on their side. Now, time is of the essence, as “chaos”, in itself, may not be sufficient for a coup by the Army, to take over from the immensely unpopular General Musharraf. If the elections descend into bloodshed, would-be étatists cannot wait too long: should a situation arise where “the street” takes over, the Army would massively have to act against its fellow countrymen, thus wiping out badly needed support.

Clear signal
Musharraf, retired General Musharraf, is still “one of them”, though. So in keeping with their symbolism and values, they fired a warning shot. To the outside world it looked strange and several commentators applied a tongue-in-cheek-tone in describing how, on January 22, near Army General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, a group of top Generals, some retired and others active, some “traditional” and others more “political”, took part in a small anti-Musharraf demonstration. January 22 being “Kashmir Day”, this provided a decent “legitimacy” for the gathering. Present, among others, were retired Generals Ali Quli Khan, Mirza Aslam Beg, Faiz Ali Chishti, Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani, Salim Haider, and Asad Durrani. Demonstrators called for Musharraf to be court-martialled, accused him of damaging the Kashmir cause and called for an inquiry into the Kargil war. It goes without saying that security forces, usually intimidatingly present at demonstrations, were completely absent. “Kashmir” being a convenient veil, the whole event was a clear signal.

If the parliamentary elections descend into chaos and violence, be not surprised if it is rapidly followed by a military coup. Reliable sources say that elements of the Special Service Group (i.e. Pakistan’s elite commandos) were, not long ago, exercising “mock” insurgency scenarios.

READ THE U.N. OBSERVER & International Reports

 

[Spring Onion]

PESHAWAR: A team of eleven foreign observers arrived in the city to monitor the February 18 general elections being held tomorrow.
The law enforcement agencies have strengthened the security arrangements for the foreign observers monitoring the polls.
The foreign observers include two from America, eight from Europe and one from Afghanistan will monitor the elections in NA-1, NA-2, NA-3, NA-4, Charsadda, Mardan, Abbottabad and in other districts of the province and tribal agencies.
The American observers were shifted to American Consulate while others will stay in officers’ mess and five star hotels.
The foreign observers Saturday also visited the provincial election commission office.

Jana

 

[blain2]

"a group of top Generals, some retired and others active, some “traditional” and others more “political”, took part in a small anti-Musharraf demonstration."

The above, had it been true would be grounds for court martial. What a bloody lie!...there was not one "Active" officer involved in these bogus demonstrations by ex-servicemen.

 

[solid snake]

2. Part of voters lists also can not be intimidation and no part can be deleted
beacause these the final voter lists are already been posted outside the election commission offices in all the cities of the country besides these are also pasted outside all the offices of the district governments including union councils and respective govt-schools many many days before the elections i think it was about two months back so that all the electorat could go and check if their names are there in lists or not.

In case of any name missing the person was asked to contact regional election commission office for correction.

3. Besides all the political parties have been provided with the lists much before.

The voter list was manipulated long before it was finalized and posted online, or at least those are the reports. It was reported in November or December I think that 20 million voters disappeared from the list somehow. And after that the government published the list.

Most of those deleted are the poor, who cannot look up their information on the election commission website and will only find out on the election day that they are ineligible because they're not registered.

Although to be fair to the election commission, they claimed the deleted voters were 'bogus'

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