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Polls will be "massively rigged": Qayyum's tape

One example is the Postal ballot.

In postal vote there could be rigging.

But I think there could be 5-8% rigging but even with that rigging I dont think the post pro musharraf alliance can win the elections.


But if it is too much rigged then there will be Mass protests.
 
How ironical that people of Pakistan cant have the right to choose and elect their representative except when they are 'given' this opportunity by an army general. How farce is the claim that fair and clean elections of the history will be held by a person whose open alliance with PML (Q) is no secret to anyone. When will all this change. We blame politicians but have we learned a lesson from democracy even? (Ironical that Gen. Musharraf tells the Western powers that his 'own' style of democracy is what Pakistan needs). In India they never let army came to power. Corrupt or not, they let the politicians run the county and see them now; they are becoming a super power where election commission is an autonomous, powerful institutes and in Pakistan there is no institute, even judiciary, which can check the above-the-law status of the ruling elite. Points to ponder.

First of I must remind you that Musharraf is not a serving general and neither is he running for elections.
It is up to PM how he runs the daily of affairs state and President is only a check on top, provided article 52(b) prevails. Otherwise he is a rubber stamp.
I rememeber it was Sharif who wanted to be the King of the state and his tussel started with GIK, and so on with countless till Musharraf.
Now he decalre to impeach all Army and President but does not know the criminal accounts.
If politicians are clean then they should not hesitate to run their govt. who so ever remain President.
All present political leaders do not even have qualification to hold the post of a clerk and imagine what they can do to Pakistan
You talk so highly of India but you ignored that they have chosen a PhD for the top job not some thief like Sharif or Zardari.
The leader of congress Sonia did not opted for the top post, despite the fact she was able to do so.
PML (N)? what does this suppose to mean? why can't he be honest enough to call it Nawaz League instead. Hypocrite, once declares Zardari corrupt and today he seek his advice, about participating in elections.

You are right it is ironic that Musharraf delivered real democracy ever in Pakistan.
He introduced the local body’s govt. During his regime our civil institutions could be seen functioning for the first time.

And Ironic about present elections is that other than the usual pre-election rigging slogans (Jhurloo) no one has been able to point out any problem with the system it self.
If individuals do some hanky panky than it is due the unfortunate culture we have.

Some people believe in Musharraf and some does not.
Some support Musharraf out of their personal interest and some does not support him out of their personal interests also.

For me choice was never so simple, we have three leaders to choose:
1- Musharraf
2- Zardari
3- Sharif

Please don't confuse your self or others with things like PML(Q) or PML(N) because most of the candidates are not very indifferent. They just need tickets, parties does not matter to them much.
 
One example is the Postal ballot.

In postal vote there could be rigging.

But I think there could be 5-8% rigging but even with that rigging I dont think the post pro musharraf alliance can win the elections.


But if it is too much rigged then there will be Mass protests.

I heard their will be no postal ballots?
If you know the details please tell me?
You are trying to say that postal companies like DHL will do this 5-8% rigging?
Common man in street does not have the sense what is wrong or right so it does not matter who really is corrupt its just the media and 'Chamak' which matters the most.
 
Is Pakistan using electronic voting machine or its old paper ballots? Its very easy do capture booths in mass scale if Police and gaurds are pro goverment. There is nother possiblity to change the ballot box or do cheating while counting.
 
Is Pakistan using electronic voting machine or its old paper ballots? Its very easy do capture booths in mass scale if Police and gaurds are pro goverment. There is nother possiblity to change the ballot box or do cheating while counting.

Does even India use electronic ballots? I don't think South Asia's illiterate masses can use electronic machines. And even with electronic machines it's very easy to hack into them and cause the rival party's option to not register on a particular machine even if the voter touches the mark for that party. It will show up as having been regiestered, but in reality the machine does not count it.
 
Does even India use electronic ballots? I don't think South Asia's illiterate masses can use electronic machines. And even with electronic machines it's very easy to hack into them and cause the rival party's option to not register on a particular machine even if the voter touches the mark for that party. It will show up as having been regiestered, but in reality the machine does not count it.

India uses electronic voting machines.
 
Is Pakistan using electronic voting machine or its old paper ballots? Its very easy do capture booths in mass scale if Police and gaurds are pro goverment. There is nother possiblity to change the ballot box or do cheating while counting.

The counting is done in front of the party heads. There can't be any cheating by any of these methods.
 
While I think Mushrraf is the best bet for Paksitan, but it is silly to say the election should be rigged.

If that were so the case and the Pakistani politicians that inept, then why not have a Constitution that indicates that Pakistan will have a military govt? Why have a sham democracy?
 
Media in the US is declaring the Election "overtly fair", as have the visiting US senators (as of now).

Most Pakistani analysts and politicians interviewed have resorted to claiming "pre poll rigging" - primarily, rigging by "ensuring turnout is low". Turnout was affected by two issues - security and a lack of belief in the "fairness of the polls". The former the GoP has been struggling with for the better part of a year now, and the latter is ironically a result of the opposition/media's own campaign to project the polls as being "rigged". Cutting off ones nose and all...
 
American observer doesn't take Pakistan polls rigging charges seriously

Islamabad, Feb 18 (PPI):- The head of election observer group contracted by United States government to monitor Pakistan's elections Monday said while it was “easy to cry foul in polls, there had to be more specific allegations for it to be taken seriously”.“People fearful of rigging are those who want to leave space (if they lose),” former US congressman Jim Moody told IANS correspondent Devirupa Mitra in Islamabad. “Anyone can cry rigging, but they need to be specific,” he said.(Posted @ 22:45 PST)
 
The fact that PML-Q is getting trounced is proof enough for me that the polls were fair.
 
the polls have by all accounts been fair and free. the low turn out was due to fear but we have seen lower turn out than that in other polls in the past.
Araz
 
The man, who rigged 2002 polls, spills the beans

By Umar Cheema

ISLAMABAD: The main wheeler and dealer of the ISI during the 2002 elections, the then Maj-Gen Ehtesham Zamir, now retired, has come out of the closet and admitted his guilt of manipulating the 2002 elections, and has directly blamed Gen Musharraf for ordering so.

Talking to The News, the head of the ISI’s political cell in 2002, admitted manipulating the last elections at the behest of President Musharraf and termed the defeat of the King’s party, the PML-Q, this time “a reaction of the unnatural dispensation (installed in 2002).”

Zamir said the ISI together with the NAB was instrumental in pressing the lawmakers to join the pro-Musharraf camp to form the government to support his stay in power.

Looking down back into the memory lane and recalling his blunders which, he admitted, had pushed the country back instead of taking it forward, Zamir feels ashamed of his role and conduct.

Massively embarrassed because he was the one who negotiated, coerced and did all the dirty work, the retired Maj-Gen said he was not in a position to become a preacher now when his own past was tainted.

He said the country would not have faced such regression had the political management was not carried out by the ISI in 2002. But he also put some responsibility of the political disaster on the PML-Q as well.

The former No: 2 of the ISI called for the closure of political cell in the agency, confessing that it was part of the problem due to its involvement in forging unnatural alliances, contrary to public wishes.

Zamir’s blaming Musharraf for creating this unnatural alliance rings true as another former top associate of Musharraf, Lt-Gen (retd) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has already disclosed that majority of the corps commanders, in several meetings, had opposed Musharraf’s decision of patronising the leadership of the King’s party.

“We had urged Musharraf many times during the corps commanders meeting that the PML-Q leadership was the most condemned and castigated personalities. They are the worst politicians who remained involved in co-operative scandals and writing off loans. But Musharraf never heard our advice,” Kiyani said while recalling discussions in their high profile meetings.

He said one of their colleagues, who was an accountability chief at that time, had sought permission many times for proceeding against the King’s party top leaders but was always denied.

Kiyani asked Musharraf to quit, the sooner the better, as otherwise the country would be in a serious trouble.

Ma-Gen (retd) Ehtesham Zamir termed the 2008 elections ‘fairer than 2002’. He said the reason behind their fairness is that there was relatively less interference of intelligence agencies this time as compared to the last time. But he stopped short of saying that there was zero interference in the 2008 polls.

“You are quite right,” he said when asked to confirm about heavy penetration of ISI into political affairs during the 2002 elections. But he said he did not do it on his own but on the directives issued by the government.

Asked who directed him from the government side and if there was somebody else, not President Musharraf, he said: “Obviously on the directives of President Musharraf.”

Asked if he then never felt that he was committing a crime by manipulating political business at the cost of public wishes, he said: “Who should I have told except myself. Could I have asked Musharraf about this? I was a serving officer and I did what I was told to do. I never felt this need during the service to question anyone senior to me,” he said and added that he could not defend his acts now.

“It was for this reason that I have never tried to preach others what I did not practice. But I am of the view that the ISI’s political cell should be closed for good by revoking executive orders issued in 1975,” he said.

Responding to a question regarding corruption cases that were used as pressure tactics on lawmakers, he said: “Yes! This tool was used, not only by the ISI. The NAB was also involved in this exercise.”

Former corps commander of Rawalpindi, Lt-Gen (retd) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani said majority of corps commanders had continued opposing Musharraf’s alliance with top leadership of the PML-Q.

“Not just in one meeting, we opposed his alignment with these corrupt politicians in many meetings but who cared. Now Musharraf has been disgraced everywhere, thanks to his political cronies.”

The man, who rigged 2002 polls, spills the beans
 

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