Point Of View with ArzooKazmi : An Indian Muslim's stance on Ayodhya

[SuvarnaTeja]

you want to solve 15th century issues of kings and conquereors by hurting the religion of atleast 200 million indians and more than a billion of that faith worldwide ? basically you want india to be a hindu empire.

You have a wrong number buddy. Please check whom you wanted to reply.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Curious....which Muslims have you met that endorses any actions of (any) erstwhile rulers? They were rulers who happened to be Muslims. All their actions were in the best interests of themselves and their empires.

Generally, normal people look back at history to understand the times of the past. It is only in India where history is used to settle scores to paint entire communities as good or bad.

I am happy if there are none.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Sheikh Abdullah was born in 1905 in Soura, a village near Srinagar. His father Sheikh Ibrahim, a middle-class trader in shawls, died just eleven days before he was born. And Sheikh Ibrahim, the father, was the descendant of a Hindu convert named Ragho Ram Koul, a Kashmiri Pandit. Despite poverty and hardships, Sheikh Abdullah not only finished his high schooling in Kashmir but went on to complete B.Sc. from Lahore, and then M.Sc. (Chemistry) from Aligarh Muslim University in 1930.

http://creative.sulekha.com/kashmir...l-to-india-s-nehru-gandhi-dynasty_542236_blog

This is very shady and does not have proper evidence. It is more likely that Abdullahs were muslims for sometime. Itt is more likely that Nehru was a muslim who was descended from Ghiyasuddin Ghazi but changed name to hide from British.

How does destruction of idols in Kaaba related to Hindus? Are you implying those were Hindu Idols?

Yes, Kaaba was Hindu temple. Entire pagan civilisation is hindu based.

The result is for my future generations to get educated.

For example, Hindus could have made the Babri Mosque as a tourist spot with a Huge Ram temple adjacent to it. Everyone which visited the temple will have an opportunity to see how the original temple was destroyed and a mosque built its place.

Why will this new Ram temple do? It just washes away the evidence and people will forget this act of Babar in couple of decades.

Why should Hindus keep telling it again and again instead of ensuring that all the problems are settle permanently? The Ram Mandir was only the beginning, not the final act of setting everything right

 

[xeuss]

The result is for my future generations to get educated.

For example, Hindus could have made the Babri Mosque as a tourist spot with a Huge Ram temple adjacent to it. Everyone which visited the temple will have an opportunity to see how the original temple was destroyed and a mosque built its place.

Why will this new Ram temple do? It just washes away the evidence and people will forget this act of Babar in couple of decades.

The aim of this whole exercise is to show the Hindu subjugation of Islam and Muslims. I am surprised that you haven't figured that out yet.

In medieval India, that is what rulers did. In 21st century India, that is what rulers do.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

This is very shady and does not have proper evidence. It is more likely that Abdullahs were muslims for sometime. Itt is more likely that Nehru was a muslim who was descended from Ghiyasuddin Ghazi but changed name to hide from British.

Actually most of the Muslims of Kashmir valley are all recent Muslims converts and most of them are Brahmins/pandits. Most of the Kashmiri militants have dar/butt as their last name. Even Allama Iqbal belongs to Kashmiri pandit family who converted to Islam.

Yes, Kaaba was Hindu temple. Entire pagan civilisation is hindu based.

May be it still is. Think again!. May be all Muslims are in fact Hindus.

Muslims shave their heads and do parikrama like Hindus do.

Why should Hindus keep telling it again and again instead of ensuring that all the problems are settle permanently? The Ram Mandir was only the beginning, not the final act of setting everything right

What solution?

Building a new temple will not bring the original temple back.

Again forgive but not forget.

Draupadi did not tie her hair as she did not want to forget the acts of tyranny committed against her.

Razing the mosques and building new temples is the worst solution one could think of.

This is akin to Draupadi getting a hair cut and growing new hair as a solution.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

The aim of this whole exercise is to show the Hindu subjugation of Islam and Muslims. I am surprised that you haven't figured that out yet.

In medieval India, that is what rulers did. In 21st century India, that is what rulers do.

And what is the purpose of the subjugation? No I do not think that is the aim. The aim is to use it as a political issue to gain advantage over the other political parties.

This is not just limited to Hindus vs Muslims only.

British used Lower castes vs Upper castes to divide and rule.

In the west people are divided by race Black vs White.

In the Islamic world you have Sunni vs Shia.

In all these cases, the aim is to gain political advantage and the method is to divide and rule while the issue changes from place to place.

 

[xeuss]

And what is the purpose of the subjugation? No I do not think that is the aim. The aim is to use it as a political issue to gain advantage over the other political parties.

This is not just limited to Hindus vs Muslims only.

British used Lower castes vs Upper castes to divide and rule.

In the west people are divide by race Black vs White.

In Islamic world you have Sunni vs Shia.

In all these cases, the aim to gain political advantage and the method is to divide and rule while the issue changes from place to place.

Political benefit is no doubt there, but the factor of subjugation is what makes the political benefits possible.

Let's just agree to disagree here. Hopefully over time, you will understand my point of view. The sad part of this is that I will be proven right when the subjugation of my community is complete.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hinduism has its issues but that does not absolve the acts of tyranny committed by the erst while Islamic rulers on the Hindus.

It remains a joke that you claim to speak for all Hindus based on your self-certification. It remains a tragedy that you ignore the criminal behaviour towards those you define as inferior. Acts of Islamic rulers have had nothing to do with that behaviour, that started before the Islamic rulers, and continues beyond the Islamic rulers.

This is not whataboutery, this is the permanent stain on the Hindu religion. One that the BJP and the RSS seek to perpetuate, in spite of pious statements to the contrary meant for consumption by the gullible public.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

It remains a joke that you claim to speak for all Hindus based on your self-certification. It remains a tragedy that you ignore the criminal behaviour towards those you define as inferior. Acts of Islamic rulers have had nothing to do with that behaviour, that started before the Islamic rulers, and continues beyond the Islamic rulers.

This is not whataboutery, this is the permanent stain on the Hindu religion. One that the BJP and the RSS seek to perpetuate, in spite of pious statements to the contrary meant for consumption by the gullible public.

Yes what you are indulging here is a classic case of whataboutery.

May be you should first check the topic of this thread.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Actually most of the Muslims of Kashmir valley are all recent Muslims converts and most of them are Brahmins/pandits. Most of the Kashmiri militants have dar/butt as their last name. Even Allama Iqbal belongs to Kashmiri pandit family who converted to Islam.

Not recent. Kashmir was majority muslim for quite some time, about 400 years or so.

May be it still is. Think again!. May be all Muslims are in fact Hindus.

Muslims shave their heads and do parikrama like Hindus do.

Once converted, he is no longer Hindus. That is the definition of convert

What solution?

Building a new temple will not bring the original temple back.

Again forgive but not forget.

Draupadi did not tie her hair as she did not want to forget the acts of tyranny committed against her.

Razing the mosques and building new temples is the worst solution one could think of.

This is akin to Draupadi getting a hair cut and growing new hair as a solution.

Draupadi did not tie her hair till revenge was taken. After Bhima gave her blood of Dusshasana, she tied her hair.

It makes no sense to forgive. The idea is to never forgive and never forget. There is no reason not to raze down all mosques and replace them with temples. If there are no mosques at all, there is no Islam and the problem is over

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Once converted, he is no longer Hindus. That is the definition of convert

Hinduism does not recognize other religions. Hinduism considers all as part of Hinduism irrespective of what others may think.

Hinduism believes in vasudhaiva kutumbakam (all belong to the same family)

If there are no mosques at all, there is no Islam and the problem is over

No. Islam does not live in Mosques but in the hearts of the Muslims. We need to win their hearts not raze mosques.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes what you are indulging here is a classic case of whataboutery.

May be you should first check the topic of this thread.

Maybe you should first look within yourself and stop playing elusive word games. You cannot escape your crimes with weasel words.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Maybe you should first look within yourself and stop playing elusive word games. You cannot escape your crimes with weasel words.

I thought playing with words is your forte.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I thought playing with words is your forte.

Of course it is; the difference is the dishonesty with which you attempt it.

 

[Rakesh]

Not recent. Kashmir was majority muslim for quite some time, about 400 years or so.

Once converted, he is no longer Hindus. That is the definition of convert


Draupadi did not tie her hair till revenge was taken. After Bhima gave her blood of Dusshasana, she tied her hair.

It makes no sense to forgive. The idea is to never forgive and never forget. There is no reason not to raze down all mosques and replace them with temples. If there are no mosques at all, there is no Islam and the problem is over

It was personal revenge, not collective one.
How far should we go back to correct these so called historical mistakes ?