PNS Babur confront the indian navy Ship

[Penguin]

Just to refresh you; it is the responsibility of an overtaking ship to keep clear of a ship being overtaken. Refer Rule 13 of Intl. COLREGS. Simply rank bad Seamanship was on display in this foolhardy manuever.
Luckily (for the PN ship) there was no collision. As I explained earlier, the Amazons/Tariqs are not the most strongly built ships afloat. One of the reasons for the RN to retire/dispose them off earlier. Just as that was one of the reasons why the IN turned down the British offer of the Type 21 Amazon design to succeed the Leander design that the IN took.

As indicated before, I am aware of the applicable rule.

The Type 21 design was a departure from previous RN ship design, in that RN oversight of the design (performed by a private shipbuilder: Vosper Thorneycroft) was not as rigorous as on previous designs. This resulted in ships that were delivered already at or near their maximum topweight limit, with no allowance for future expansion of the design (not unlike the FFG7's, which also had little spare capacity). Several hundred tons of ballast had to carried low down, which meant that the frigates could not usually achieve their planned 35 knots speed for any long distance, but the ships were all still good for a dramatic 37 knot burst speed, with two ships claiming to have exceeded 40 knots on more than one occasion. In terms of automation, systems integration and habitability, they were well in advance of many of the ships that they replaced. Their handsome looks combined with their impressive handling and acceleration lent itself to the class nickname of Porsches, Nonetheless, unable to be fitted with new sonars, radars, and the Sea Wolf missile system, due to topweight issues, these ships were sold into foreign service relatively early.

Type 21 is a close relative of the Saam (Alvand) class ships delivered to Iran, the Dat Assawari (Vosper Mk7) frigate delivered to Libya.and the Niteroi class (Vosper Mk 10) delivered to Brazil. It is very little more than a stretched version of the MK 7 Vospers frigate built for Libya. A broad-beam derivative armed with vertical-launch Sea Wolf surface to air missiles was offered to Pakistan in 1985

Much like the USNs Spruance/Kidd/Toconderoga's , the ships developed cracks in their decks due to the different expansion properties of steel and aluminium. This was a vulnerability particularly demonstrated under the severe weather conditions that they encountered in the South Atlantic. Steel reinforcing plates were eventually fitted down the sides of the ships.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

As indicated before, I am aware of the applicable rule.

The Type 21 design was a departure from previous RN ship design, in that RN oversight of the design (performed by a private shipbuilder: Vosper Thorneycroft) was not as rigorous as on previous designs. This resulted in ships that were delivered already at or near their maximum topweight limit, with no allowance for future expansion of the design (not unlike the FFG7's, which also had little spare capacity). In terms of automation, systems integration and habitability, they were well in advance of many of the ships that they replaced. Their handsome looks combined with their impressive handling and acceleration lent itself to the class nickname of Porsches, Nonetheless, unable to be fitted with new sonars, radars, and the Sea Wolf missile system, these ships were sold into foreign service relatively early.

Type 21 is a close relative of the Saam (Alvand) class ships delivered to Iran, the Dat Assawari (Vosper Mk7) frigate delivered to Libya.and the Niteroi class (Vosper Mk 10) delivered to Brazil. A broad-beam derivative armed with vertical-launch Sea Wolf surface to air missiles was offered to Pakistan in 1985

Never mind the 'fancy-dancy' looks of the Type 21s/Amazons. They were not even strongly built ships nor did they possess good sea-keeping abilities. Fancy nicknames cannot make up for any of that!

 

[Penguin]

Never mind the 'fancy-dancy' looks of the Type 21s/Amazons. They were not even strongly built ships nor did they possess good sea-keeping abilities. Fancy nicknames cannot make up for any of that!

With the Type 42s, strengthening girders were later designed into the weather deck structure in the batch 1 and 2 ships, and the stretched batch 3 ships received an external 'strake' to counter longitudinal cracking, much in the same way that the Type 21s had received. Does that make the deliberately lengthened type 42 batch 3 not built strongly enough? And, if so, what would that say? Lengthening resulted in a better hull form.

Note the strakes on Type 42 batch 3 are thicker and run over a greater length than those in Type 21.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

With the Type 42s, strengthening girders were later designed into the weather deck structure in the batch 1 and 2 ships, and the strechted batch 3 ships received an external 'strake' to counter longitudinal cracking, much in the same way that the Type 21s had received. Does that make the type 42 batch 3 not built strongly enough? And, if so, what would that say?

I was very specific.....about the Type 21s. Since I read the evaluation reports about them..... which rejected them.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Oh Warriors ! NAY - Thou Shall shun to do that again

 

[PakEye]

Looks like you are the pinnacle of that mental optimisation.
U Pakeye or Naya Pakeye,brah !

mustaches without face
Cut these then you will be able to listen the Indian sailor abusing his sisters and &
and after your mental optimization

 

[cloud_9]

mustaches without face
Cut these then you will be able to listen the Indian sailor abusing his sisters and &
and after your mental optimization

At least make it entertaining, if your are trying to troll.

 

[The Headache]

Quote from fb page of Pakistan Naval Academy-Karachi

182 Is Pakistan's Navy Ship (PNS BABUR).
During Sea exercises they came across Indian Navy Ship. To show the power and to give those idiots a lesson who were making videos to show to their country fellows.

PNS BABUR gave Indian Navy Ship a Hit and officers and sailors on board were chanting Pakistan Zindabad and ALLAH O AKBAR.

Pakistan Navy showed them how strong we are and what's their actual position in front of Pakistan Navy.

Thankyou Sheeraz Hasan for Sharing the Video.

NOTE: Video has been made from Indian Ship and Please ignore the vulgar language being used by Indians.

You showing your power. I wish Vikramaditya was there to shut your mouth. There is no comparison b/w IN & PN.

babur or gobar?

 

[The Headache]

I love it when all indians were running inside the ship..and Pakistanis were standing and chanting Pakistan Zindabad and ALLAH O AKBAR.

"1 intelligent man is better than thousand of courageous and blinded fools."

 

[PakEye]

At least make it entertaining, if your are trying to troll.

I only making this refreshing
Tea & Roll

 

[Penguin]

I was very specific.....about the Type 21s. Since I read the evaluation reports about them..... which rejected them.

If you read my post correctly, I've not claimed they are strong ships. I do however disagree with the observation that their strength was the main reason to let them go. Imho, it was the fact they could not effectively be upgraded. You mention evaluation reports... may I ask reports by whom to whom about/for what (i.e. who rejects them on what grounds for what purpose).

 

[Penguin]

The need to ballast the ships to compensate for equipment added topside (e.g. Exocets) already points to stability issues.
Maintaining stability would be of prime concern throughout the lives of these ships.

Whilst these ships gave good service to the RN [and later for many more years to the Pakistan Navy] they had a major weakness with their superstructure on 01 deck where superstructure [aluminium] met steel on 1 deck {the main upper deck} in which many cracks were to appear, and which required steel bracings. Apart from the cracks where two types of metals met, the superstructure, made of aluminium, preferred to steel because of its lightness, was vulnerable to heat, although aluminium does not burn. Nevertheless, a severe oil fire reaches a temperature of 920º and aluminium melts at 650º and this became a problem during the 1982 Falklands War with Argentina. Two 21's were loss in action, the Antelope and the Ardent, neither to problems with aluminium.
However, the Arrow, whilst alongside and rescuing survivors off the Sheffield, was extensively damaged by the heat of the burning Type 42, and her aluminium structure started to soften [around the 550º mark] and she had to be confined to San Carlos Waters until a steel reinforcing beam could be installed to strengthen her structure. That strengthening was all that was required to keep this Type of ship serviceable and sea worthy for at least twenty five years on from the Falklands War. There was another fault which was a contributory factor when a decision as to whether to modernised the Type 21 was taken, and that was that smoke could pass freely throughout the ship through the bulkheads which were punctured to allow through the ventilation system and the electrical cabling, which amounted to a design fault. So, all the remaining six Type 21's were sold off to Pakistan as a job-lot.

ROYAL_NAVY_SHIPS_THE_UPS_AND_DOWNS_OF_CLASSES_AND_TYPES


Is the use of aluminium what you are referring to? Or is it the buckling and lateral strengthening? If the latter, it should be kept in mind that while their hull design proved less robust to the extreme weather in the South Atlantic, these ships had their origin as a coastal patrol ship. So, it's hardly a surprise then that they don't stand up too well against rougher elements.

From the start the Type 21 suffered from top weight issues, aluminium was extensively used in the superstructure to try and keep it down, but the practise was discontinued, not only is aluminium very suseptable to fire (in fires on the ships it is reported that the bulkheads melted before the paint did) but airbourne canon fire tore through the ships like they were made of tissue.
In 1983 with the surviving ships showing damage to the superstructure and deck due to heavy weather in the Falklands strengthening plates were added midships, increasing displacment by 350 tons.
With top weight so critical there was never an option to upgrade the ships to Seawolf and without the political will to buy any other short range SAM system the ships were effectively condemned and put up for sale.

Type 21 Frigate

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If you read my post correctly, I've not claimed they are strong ships. I do however disagree with the observation that their strength was the main reason to let them go. Imho, it was the fact they could not effectively be upgraded. You mention evaluation reports... may I ask reports by whom to whom about/for what (i.e. who rejects them on what grounds for what purpose).

Reports by the IN and the then DND to MoD, GoI. This was necessitated by the offer from HMG and Vosper of the design of the Type-21 to replace the Leanders being built at MDL in India. The design was rejected.
The DND and IN instead worked on substantially modifying the Leander design and found it got even much better. BTW, since DND did not have Tank-Testing facilities of its own, facilities in Holland were then used to validate the design changes. The final Hull form was found to be even more stable with a better wake factor than the Kashins which were acquired around that time.......which was a great and pleasant surprise. Incidentally, that was when the long-term relationship was set-up with HSA from the Netherlands and which replaced the more inferior Plessey and Marconi eqpt in the original Leander design.

 

[ares]

If you read my post correctly, I've not claimed they are strong ships. I do however disagree with the observation that their strength was the main reason to let them go. Imho, it was the fact they could not effectively be upgraded. You mention evaluation reports... may I ask reports by whom to whom about/for what (i.e. who rejects them on what grounds for what purpose).

As opposed to Carbon steels, Aluminium is very susceptible to fire..though it does not catch fire..Aluminium alloy looses its strength at much lower temperature steel.

One of the reasons why two Amazon class frigates were lost in Faklands war..was their entire superstructure made Aluminium.

After the war these frigates were disposed off quickly..even though they only had served about a decade in Royal Navy, bought by Pakistani Navy and pressed in to service as destroyers.

 

[Penguin]

. The design was rejected

Reports by the IN and the then DND to MoD, GoI. This was necessitated by the offer from HMG and Vosper of the design of the Type-21 to replace the Leanders being built at MDL in India. The design was rejected.
The DND and IN instead worked on substantially modifying the Leander design and found it got even much better. BTW, since DND did not have Tank-Testing facilities of its own, facilities in Holland were then used to validate the design changes. The final Hull form was found to be even more stable with a better wake factor than the Kashins which were acquired around that time.......which was a great and pleasant surprise. Incidentally, that was when the long-term relationship was set-up with HSA from the Netherlands and which replaced the more inferior Plessey and Marconi eqpt in the original Leander design.

IIRC a broad beamed variant of the 21 was also envisioned? I know Australia declined on this type.