PNS Azmat Class - Fast Attack Missile Craft | Updates & Discussions.

[Safriz]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

When is the 4th one getting completed it is April Already ?

 

[Sheraz Patriot]

This class of ships would be very useful if we add in numbers add a light air defence missile system and modify some for anti submarine role.
Thanks

 

[Imran Khan]

This class of ships would be very useful if we add in numbers add a light air defence missile system and modify some for anti submarine role.
Thanks

where is the room for all this luxury boss?

 

[syed_yusuf]

where is the room for all this luxury boss?

definitely room is there. there is a lot of free space. and then replace ciws 630 with fl-3000n 23 cell anti-air system. upgrade teh radar system with lates aselsan aesa radar. add 2 12.5 mm rws stamp guns. you can add a couple of anti-sub lightweight fixed torpedo tubes towards the rear end.

a bit of improvement will make this a very potent platform. this is my issue with navy planners they are always a few feet shy of excellence. not sure why. may it be f-22p or azmat or new ada class corvette. we have seen this pattern...

 

[HRK]

definitely room is there. there is a lot of free space. and then replace ciws 630 with fl-3000n 23 cell anti-air system. upgrade teh radar system with lates aselsan aesa radar. add 2 12.5 mm rws stamp guns. you can add a couple of anti-sub lightweight fixed torpedo tubes towards the rear end.

a bit of improvement will make this a very potent platform. this is my issue with navy planners they are always a few feet shy of excellence. not sure why. may it be f-22p or azmat or new ada class corvette. we have seen this pattern...

View attachment 471066

not necessarily they should replace few systems on the existing platform ... they should go for new version based on Azmat class adding air defence for short to medium range

When Hamina class can have Umkhonto-IR with almost half of displacement and shorter in length than Azamt class than why should we not explore the option of FAC with air defence ....??

 

[Hassan Guy]

the karakurt class is identical in displacement and dimensions to the Azmat yet has a full blown 8 cell UKSK VLS

 

[Tank131]

The Hamina is a perfect example of well thought out design. It is 250t ship (less than half the displacement of Azmat class) and carries 4 AShM and 8 Umkhonto-ir. As far as improving the Azmat, it is very doable.

1. Replace the radar with something akin to the Saab Sea Giraffe AMB on like on the Visby. With a 180km range it will give great situational awareness to the vessel.

2. Move the AK-630 From the rear and put it on a pedestal in place of the 23mm automatic gun as your main gun. It has twice the range, better rate of fire and better caliber. It would be effective both against aerial amd surface targets far more so than the 23mm gun.

3. In place of the AK 630 in the rear, put an 8 cell FL-3000N Launcher.

4. On either side of the RHIB you could place a mk32 triple torpedo launcher.

5. On either sid of the FL-3000N (in th rear) put a 12.7mm STAMP remote gun. (this is optional).

 

[syed_yusuf]

The Hamina is a perfect example of well thought out design. It is 250t ship (less than half the displacement of Azmat class) and carries 4 AShM and 8 Umkhonto-ir. As far as improving the Azmat, it is very doable.

1. Replace the radar with something akin to the Saab Sea Giraffe AMB on like on the Visby. With a 180km range it will give great situational awareness to the vessel.

2. Move the AK-630 From the rear and put it on a pedestal in place of the 23mm automatic gun as your main gun. It has twice the range, better rate of fire and better caliber. It would be effective both against aerial amd surface targets far more so than the 23mm gun.

3. In place of the AK 630 in the rear, put an 8 cell FL-3000N Launcher.

4. On either side of the RHIB you could place a mk32 triple torpedo launcher.

5. On either sid of the FL-3000N (in th rear) put a 12.7mm STAMP remote gun. (this is optional).

Exactly

This is what I have been saying for such a long time

PN planners always miss the last 9 yards

Some of the common sense we see lacks in their planning

I am very surprise that they keep doing half baked plans

 

[Tank131]

Exactly

This is what I have been saying for such a long time

PN planners always miss the last 9 yards

Some of the common sense we see lacks in their planning

I am very surprise that they keep doing half baked plans

In fairness, the design is chinese and they are about cost effective and utility... The European approach is about efficiency which is why most of their ships are low tonnage and with big sticks vs American ships which are sheer brute force. PN needs a more efficiently designed fleet. Smaller displacement but highly capable. Think along the lines of the Israeli Sa'ar5 amd Saar 6 which are built and designed by the Germans and carry relatively large weapons loads in a tight small frame (1250t amd 2000t respectively). The Sa'ar 6 carries 16 AShM, 32 Barak 8, C-dome (likely 32+ point defense missiles), guns and a medium sized helicopter. PN should move in this direction, with light frigates capable of operating independently with high potential for survivability. But that all costs money.

 

[Armchair]

brilliant ideas by Syed Yusuf and Tank. I've shared some similar ideas on the Azmat class over the years.

The main counter-argument is cost and efficient use of funds.

Viz:

1. These subsystems (such as the FL-3000) cost a lot. Perhaps nearly as much as the basic boat itself.
2. If you are going to put such expensive systems on a ship, why not a larger ship? ....

Regarding which, here are some other interesting ideas.

What would be a game changer - a locally built SAM system for the PAF / PA and most vitally, for PN. Installed across the fleet.

 

[Tank131]

brilliant ideas by Syed Yusuf and Tank. I've shared some similar ideas on the Azmat class over the years.

The main counter-argument is cost and efficient use of funds.

Viz:

1. These subsystems (such as the FL-3000) cost a lot. Perhaps nearly as much as the basic boat itself.
2. If you are going to put such expensive systems on a ship, why not a larger ship? ....

Regarding which, here are some other interesting ideas.

What would be a game changer - a locally built SAM system for the PAF / PA and most vitally, for PN. Installed across the fleet.

Im not sure about the cost of FL-3000N, but i agree the rate limiting issue is cost. To quote a former professor of mine, "the answer is money...what's your question?" with that said, the PN must spend money to be relevant, otherwise Pakistan can just bend over now cuz india will mess it ip.

 

[Armchair]

Im not sure about the cost of FL-3000N, but i agree the rate limiting issue is cost. To quote a former professor of mine, "the answer is money...what's your question?" with that said, the PN must spend money to be relevant, otherwise Pakistan can just bend over now cuz india will mess it ip.

Thanks for your reply Tank131. Its not that easy to make a nuclear power bend over. A single tactical nuke can send a naval task force underwater and cause a tsunami to boot.

Be that is it may, I think we have to take the overall perspective. The CPEC has changed the game. China is effectively building the PN into a force to be reckoned. Now, I'm neither Pakistani nor privy to any insider information, but here is what I can glean:

8 aip submarines, new from China
2-8 nuclear submarines
4 Type-54A mod
4 Milgem corvettes
various OPVs, refitted with equipment from retiring ships over 10
Azmat Class Block 2
Possibility of a new local corvette (???)
Su-35 (???) wild card

CPEC will change Pakistani economy, its basically like a mini Marshal Plan. Which will mean.... money.


What I am really interested to know is if the indigenous SAM project bore fruit. It should be relatively simple to get a basic SAM for use by 3 services. Would also make a great export item.

 

[KaleemlOvely]

Very useful post thanks

 

[Tank131]

Thanks for your reply Tank131. Its not that easy to make a nuclear power bend over. A single tactical nuke can send a naval task force underwater and cause a tsunami to boot.

Be that is it may, I think we have to take the overall perspective. The CPEC has changed the game. China is effectively building the PN into a force to be reckoned. Now, I'm neither Pakistani nor privy to any insider information, but here is what I can glean:

8 aip submarines, new from China
2-8 nuclear submarines
4 Type-54A mod
4 Milgem corvettes
various OPVs, refitted with equipment from retiring ships over 10
Azmat Class Block 2
Possibility of a new local corvette (???)
Su-35 (???) wild card

CPEC will change Pakistani economy, its basically like a mini Marshal Plan. Which will mean.... money.


What I am really interested to know is if the indigenous SAM project bore fruit. It should be relatively simple to get a basic SAM for use by 3 services. Would also make a great export item.

The 4 large frigates and proposal for nuclear subs, Milgem, and Su-35 are all examples of what i said...spending money. But just having the ships doesn't mean much if they are ineffective. For example, spending $200+ million on each Ada corvette with 8 harpoons and a 21 cell pdms is a relative waste money when the same job cam be done for less by Type 056. Spending $250-300 million on a ship (like the Istanbul class of LF-2400 with 16 cell vls (loaded with quad packed mrsam) , 16 AShM and a 21 cell pdms is far more capable and even cost effective because it is mote likely to survive a conflict.