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PNS Azmat Class - Fast Attack Missile Craft | Updates & Discussions.

Sure had taken long time for the 4th ship Supervisor need to charge up the whip to get people working more productively

For a small ship like Azmat class one would imagine the production would be faster at typical pace
 
The 4 large frigates and proposal for nuclear subs, Milgem, and Su-35 are all examples of what i said...spending money. But just having the ships doesn't mean much if they are ineffective. For example, spending $200+ million on each Ada corvette with 8 harpoons and a 21 cell pdms is a relative waste money when the same job cam be done for less by Type 056. Spending $250-300 million on a ship (like the Istanbul class of LF-2400 with 16 cell vls (loaded with quad packed mrsam) , 16 AShM and a 21 cell pdms is far more capable and even cost effective because it is mote likely to survive a conflict.

Hi Tank131,

I'm not privy to the cost Pakistan is paying for Milgem corvettes, or what is included and what is not. Remember, the main costs of combat ships today relates to what you fit them with. And many of the sub-systems used in the Turkish ships are of Western origin, and have official and unofficial blockade of arms.

There are many other issues. 1 of a 100. for instance, PN needs to deal with Brahmos, which is a very serious threat. This needs either long-to-medium range sams or very fast reacting shorter range systems.

The typical CIWS is pretty ineffective against multiple supersonic AShM attacks, as the sheer mass, speed and reaction time available make defense a nightmare. The typical type of radar guided shorter range systems such as Sea Sparrow type and the type F-22Ps have, just don't have the reaction times necessary for a shorter range system.

Longer range systems require serious investment in detection and tracking radars. In short, a very expensive affair. Plus unofficial sanctions and intrigue, what have you. Chinese systems in this range are not cheap, nor are they of particularly good quality, nor reliable. Reliability is a serious concern as a dud means a ship and many lives destroyed.

So what would you like PN to do? Go for gold-plated systems whose upkeep in the future could be an issue?

If I had to speculate, the shortest reaction time systems are IR based, not radar based. Radar is better for longer ranges, due to certain lags in reaction times. If I had to speculate further (and I have no insider info mind you, nor am I even Pakistani) PN has most likely invested / or is investing in such a system.

You may just see a Turkish IR-based sam installed on the Milgem corvettes PN is buying. Technically no deal has been signed nor any cost figures publicly acknowledged. The whole point of PN going for a Turkish system despite CPEC and close ties with China is both the qualitative and technological edge of a western-tech based ship, as well as the relative competence of Turkey in IR based systems. IMHO.

So basically you will have 3-4 task groups each with an umbrella provided via 54As, and smaller ships complementing each other. This is a reasonable goal. Remember, PN's budget is a tiny fraction of IN's. The response has to be asymmetric, which basically means submarines and a2d. PN is also looking to purchase Su-35s, which again would be a major force multiplier.
 
Why it's taking so long to build 4th Azmat Ship? Any news on it ?
 
What has monsoon got anything to do with it? It has been fitting out at that berth since January with the fitting out tender on the port side of the vessel.
 
Three Azmat's without missile canisters on 14th January 18'.
upload_2018-6-30_12-9-44.png


Fourth Azmat fitting out at KSEW berth 14th Jan 18'.
upload_2018-6-30_12-11-47.png
 
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I stand corrected Sir! It is indeed Hingol Class PMSA boats. Thank you for the correction.
 
Hi Tank131,

I'm not privy to the cost Pakistan is paying for Milgem corvettes, or what is included and what is not. Remember, the main costs of combat ships today relates to what you fit them with. And many of the sub-systems used in the Turkish ships are of Western origin, and have official and unofficial blockade of arms.

There are many other issues. 1 of a 100. for instance, PN needs to deal with Brahmos, which is a very serious threat. This needs either long-to-medium range sams or very fast reacting shorter range systems.

The typical CIWS is pretty ineffective against multiple supersonic AShM attacks, as the sheer mass, speed and reaction time available make defense a nightmare. The typical type of radar guided shorter range systems such as Sea Sparrow type and the type F-22Ps have, just don't have the reaction times necessary for a shorter range system.

Longer range systems require serious investment in detection and tracking radars. In short, a very expensive affair. Plus unofficial sanctions and intrigue, what have you. Chinese systems in this range are not cheap, nor are they of particularly good quality, nor reliable. Reliability is a serious concern as a dud means a ship and many lives destroyed.

So what would you like PN to do? Go for gold-plated systems whose upkeep in the future could be an issue?

If I had to speculate, the shortest reaction time systems are IR based, not radar based. Radar is better for longer ranges, due to certain lags in reaction times. If I had to speculate further (and I have no insider info mind you, nor am I even Pakistani) PN has most likely invested / or is investing in such a system.

You may just see a Turkish IR-based sam installed on the Milgem corvettes PN is buying. Technically no deal has been signed nor any cost figures publicly acknowledged. The whole point of PN going for a Turkish system despite CPEC and close ties with China is both the qualitative and technological edge of a western-tech based ship, as well as the relative competence of Turkey in IR based systems. IMHO.

So basically you will have 3-4 task groups each with an umbrella provided via 54As, and smaller ships complementing each other. This is a reasonable goal. Remember, PN's budget is a tiny fraction of IN's. The response has to be asymmetric, which basically means submarines and a2d. PN is also looking to purchase Su-35s, which again would be a major force multiplier.

It is mentioned by Turks that Pakistan is getting Milgem corvettes unarmed i.e the SAMS and other gadgets shall be fitted as per PN choice after delivery of corvettes. In case of corvettes and even for F22Ps Pakistan may go for Umokhonto SAM both in short range and medium range from South Africa. Meanwhile these corvettes may be armed by domestic Harba Missiles.
 
In fairness, the design is chinese and they are about cost effective and utility... The European approach is about efficiency which is why most of their ships are low tonnage and with big sticks vs American ships which are sheer brute force. PN needs a more efficiently designed fleet. Smaller displacement but highly capable. Think along the lines of the Israeli Sa'ar5 amd Saar 6 which are built and designed by the Germans and carry relatively large weapons loads in a tight small frame (1250t amd 2000t respectively). The Sa'ar 6 carries 16 AShM, 32 Barak 8, C-dome (likely 32+ point defense missiles), guns and a medium sized helicopter. PN should move in this direction, with light frigates capable of operating independently with high potential for survivability. But that all costs money.

Hi,

When the sh-it hits the fan---and the battle starts that is when the realization hits that we fckd up---.

You have written a great piece---what I would add to it is---if over all cost is an issue---Then we should reduce the number of ships from 4 to three and spend that money to make the three the best of what is available---.

3 extraordinary would always be better than 4 ordinary---.

A game changer has nothing to do with being local built---. A game changer has to be the best available options---whomsoever build it---.

Mehmet would not have broken the walls of Constantinopole if he had chosen to stay with the Local Built canon builders.

When he heard abut the extraordinary canon builder from Hungary---he did not waste a moment and hired him to do the job---.

If it was not for that massive canon shot---the walls of the fort would not have come down---.

In the matters of weapons and weaponry---it does not matter---where the weapon comes from---. What matters is---is it able---is it capable---would it work when needed---is our better than their's---.
 
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