PM under pressure on COAS extension issue

[RAMPAGE]

The only fear is when society is kept deprived of reforms and education by design. You may in that case never feel strong enough to revolt and keep on waiting for eternity.

I do not believe that is the case. There is no conspiracy here, not really.

There is no revolt and there is no eternity. Reforms and progress are gradual, not abrupt. British justice did not simply emerge out of nowhere. There is a history behind Parliment and Judiciary. They are not the result of anarchy or revolts. Humans are progressivists by default and they will refine their systems. The foundations for reforms are already there so there is no need for revolutions.

 

[-xXx-]

I do not believe that is the case. There is no conspiracy here, not really.

There is no revolt and there is no eternity. Reforms and progress are gradual, not abrupt. British justice did not simply emerge out of nowhere. There is a history behind Parliment and Judiciary. They are not the result of anarchy or revolts. Humans are progressivists by default and they will refine their systems. The foundations for reforms are already there so there is no need for revolutions.

Read my response to Oscar and you will find me on similar page if not exactly same.

It's not a conspiracy but a tendency and need of elite to remain elite. It can not suppress the human evolution, but can certainly slow the rate. This is the reason why we are decades behind others. They have broken the shackles much earlier.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@RAMPAGE

You have based your premise on education and awareness, a fallacy if I may contend. There is absolutely no correlation between education and success of any undertaking/project. Awareness may increase, but education and knowledge (awareness) does not ensure the attainment of objectives.

If I may, I shall simply give you the example of smoking and the massive campaigns being run on it. Awareness has increased, but has the incidence of lung cancer decreased commensurate to the effort? No. On the contrary, there is a rising trend of the same.

This is the best example of what I was trying to convey

We're not talking about addictions here. An addict does not want to reform but an enlightened man does want reforms.

By the way, I went from pack-a-day smoker to a nonsmoker in a single day and I am sure that awareness had everything to do with it.

 

[Djinn]

Read my response to Oscar and you will find me on similar page if not exactly same.

It's not a conspiracy but a tendency and need of elite to remain elite. It can not suppress the human evolution, but can certainly slow the rate. This is the reason why we are decades behind others. They have broken the shackles much earlier.

Oh man that is an open secret. I can't believe that you have to explain this to people, if they don't know that already then i think they would be better off serving these elites and their generations to come.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Read my response to Oscar and you will find me on similar page if not exactly same.

It's not a conspiracy but a tendency and need of elite to remain elite. It can not suppress the human evolution, but can certainly slow the rate. This is the reason why we are decades behind others. They have broken the shackles much earlier.

We are behind because we were not educated enough to get ourselves a Parliment and to develop/arm ourselves with muskets. The British were.

@-xXx- Read the edited post.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

We are behind because we were not educated enough to get ourselves a Parliment and to develop/arm ourselves with muskets. The British were.

@-xXx- Read the edited post.

Mughals probably had a better musket that what Europeans used- It could use more gunpowder and fire longer ranges-

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Joe Shearer

Just saw you. Would you please read the last two pages and give us your opinion. Also, please correct me where I'm wrong.

Hope you're well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sure, if you insist.

The last I read, albeit a bit late to do that, was The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.

Excellent stuff, but still recovering from philosophy and psychology overdose.

@Oscar Just did a check on the writer George Orwell and he is known as democratic socialist. I generally lock horns with both the words, the combination must be a cracker.

Islam is quite socialist in its design but lack the flexibility to be clear democratic. How do you see concept of democratic socialism implementable in Pakistan? Is it viable? If yes can it sustain?

We do not have any healthy example of such now a days. India until 1990 can be termed as such with genuine reservations, but that can not be marked as successful model. We move farther from socialism.

@hellfire

George Orwell was the pen name of an ex-IP officer from Burma named Eric Blair. You have a rough ride ahead, reading him on Animal Farm, and, if you have the heart to continue, on 1984 as well. You've really missed something missing Animal Farm. The three books - Huxley's Brave New World being the third - form a compulsory reading list to cope with the contemporary world.

@RAMPAGE

You have based your premise on education and awareness, a fallacy if I may contend. There is absolutely no correlation between education and success of any undertaking/project. Awareness may increase, but education and knowledge (awareness) does not ensure the attainment of objectives.

If I may, I shall simply give you the example of smoking and the massive campaigns being run on it. Awareness has increased, but has the incidence of lung cancer decreased commensurate to the effort? No. On the contrary, there is a rising trend of the same.

This is the best example of what I was trying to convey

For the modest consideration of a whisky, I can give you the logic behind education seldom being behind the success of an undertaking. What you just enunciated is an unknown axiom.

 

[Finer]

Pakistan Army is a great institution

But without accountability. Accountability is unheard in the so-called greatest institution, Pakistan army. That's where i have problem with. Accountability should be for all, not selective.

 

[sady]

Western world decided a longtime ago, the way their societies can continue to dominate the world is,

1. Create a just, reward oriented , well oiled domestic system where a common joe earns to enjoy the perks of a modern society and leaves the important bit for the important people.
2. Now the important people use the other important people in not so important parts of the world to harness resources so their average joe keeps doing his business and they keep doing their important bit.

Mean while the not so important people of not so important lands argue and debate among each other if knowing this fact and awareness of this travesty will bring about a gradual change?

A wall does not collapse brick by brick. Fire does not cool down slowly, eventually something tips and it happens suddenly. The stupidity of a common man cannot be over emphasised. Specially if educated and truly if semi educated.

 

[Husnainshah]

It's interesting to see a laymen approach towards a very complicated social and political issue by a 'Senior Moderator'. Making politicians answerable isn't changing anything in a society where corruption, honor killing, abuse of power, dishonesty, bigotry, hypocrisy, oppression, extremism, illiteracy among other things, are social norms. You've hung, killed, exiled, tortured, harassed politicians before and continue to do to this day, how has that worked out for you?

Problem is not with any institution but society as whole since your Politicians, Judges, Army Officers, Bureaucrats, Intellectuals come from this very same society and not from elsewhere. I assure you, no one's peeing their pants for Army Chiefs retiring on their due dates.

On topic, one thing I've learned, among other things, observing Mian Sahab is he doesn't succumb to pressure easy, if at all. I don't think The Prime Minister is issuing any extension to the Army Chief. The current Army Chief, while better disciplined than his predecessors, is very confrontational and often exceeds Army's institutional limitations publicly.

 

[Hellfire]

We're not talking about addictions here. An addict does not want to reform but an enlightened man does want reforms.

By the way, I went from pack-a-day smoker to a nonsmoker in a single day and I am sure that awareness had everything to do with it.

Agreed. But it is a fact as derived from behavioural sciences nothing to do with addictions or otherwise.

In the sub-continent, honesty is directly proportional to the lack of opportunity at dishonesty. You will invariably find it. The corruption is at the smallest aspect of life, be it in day to day dealings, cheating at exam or schools, breaking mundane traffic rules, taking a bribe to do any work etc.

Hence there will always be replacement of one corrupt official by another. The fabric of the society has to change, and the change comes not from education alone, but from a societal effort by the population as a whole to change the value system consciously.

For the modest consideration of a whisky, I can give you the logic behind education seldom being behind the success of an undertaking. What you just enunciated is an unknown axiom.

Totally agreed. Education is irrelevant. It is the value system in the society