PM Imran live address to the nation on banned TLP issue

[GumNaam]

Imran Khan look scared to death. No container language and insults. This time opponent isn't Zardari or Sharif. If only he had shown more maturity when dealing with political opponents, he wouldn't look scared in live address to the nation where he surrender to TLP types.

Expect new agreement with TLP soon.

maryam nawaz sharif ki jooti kay neechay say nikal kar zara daikh,
zameen daikh,
falak daikh,
fiza daikh,
Imran Khan Niazi kay charrh tay huay sooraj ko zara daikh

here's your new agreement...

 

[Patriot forever]

Worse yet on this particular issue, the way I see it, the PM and his government were using the France issue for political posturing a few months back. When you've had nothing but dismal internal performance, it must have seemed an easy way to pander and win some brownie points from this section of society.

Truly, God help Pakistan. I can scarcely remember a more bleak period in our recent history.

Actually its the opposite, I have never seen any PM handle such issue with such mature approach. From raising the issue where it is deserved to be raised. Why would you call that for political posture. What opposition was doing in government and even now is called political posturing. IK approach is valid and with reasoning, he pointed out the hypocrisy of the west like no other.

Can you elaborate what is wrong with his approach, other than your political affiliation?

If he succeeds in his approach this will be the greatest contribution in respect to this issue from any leader in Muslim world.

 

[SQ8]

Amazing knowledge. can you kindly provide link to this incident of Thamud? yes it's time to stop corruption and people in power should care about average but unfortunately we are on the verge of collapse!

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-q...al-majlisi/salih-his-she-camel-and-his-people

I tried to remember where I heard this example as a child, and if I recall correctly it was Ashfaq Ahmed Sahab - truly people who were sent to try and build character of Pakistanis.. sadly their efforts are lost it seems.

 

[SQ8]

Oddly - people screaming for the heads of anyone they believe insulted the prophet also are the ones most far from his character.

Complete lack of empathy for fellow humans, inconsiderate and unhygienic in acts and appearance - with no concept of economics, diplomacy and tact which the prophet was second to none in.

An example of a life for every possible scenario - when weak and corned use asymmetric warfare tactics to hit an enemy’s economic lifelines - when seeing a stalemate in Uhud and enemies within, sue for peace and quietly build both numerical and economic strength. Trade & Purchase weapons from Jews and Gentiles without illogical boycotts to shore up capability to eventually take over weapons forges to build their own.

Gauge each enemy separately and use
appropriate tactics to tackle them, be it simply forgiving those capable of being good allies or cutting off leadership and future threats from those who were known to not back down.

Knowing to forgive an ignorant and generally insignificant woman who threw trash at him but requesting a renowned and influential poet be assassinated to quell his potential to rile up a threat.

Every second of his life an example,even when he delegated on knowledge he did not have - such as suggesting looking to subject matter expert from everything from agriculture to trench warfare.

 

[HAIDER]

The real fun has started, now TLP ban on the parliament floor. PPP ran away, PMLn is angry, they want to keep the ban, because their constituencies are heavily influenced by TLP voter, ban suites them. MQM also having problems with TLP. So, the fun begins .. JUIF , Fazloo son delivering only emotional speeches...n talk about lifting ban.

 

[CriticalThought]

That's what the courts are for.

This is a ridiculous excuse - if this argument is allowed, every dacoit, murderer, rapist, terrorist or militant will justify attacks on security forces (when subjected to arrests or raids) under the pretext of 'we thought security forces were trying to kill us unlawfully'.

The State and ONLY the State has a monopoly on violence. The police may not have a good reputation, but the answer is not to take the law into your own hands.

TLP actions have absolutely NO justification.

You have cherry picked one sentence so you could craft a case out of thin air. This is not the same thing as regular crime because the government has imposed a one sided media ban on transmitting the point of view of TLP. Not just that, but in a surprising show of totalitarianism banking on dictatorship, a blanket ban has been placed on transmitting views of any religious person. Which is why we don't know if the government is fibbing through its teeth or telling the truth.

Oddly - people screaming for the heads of anyone they believe insulted the prophet also are the ones most far from his character.

Complete lack of empathy for fellow humans, inconsiderate and unhygienic in acts and appearance - with no concept of economics, diplomacy and tact which the prophet was second to none in.

An example of a life for every possible scenario - when weak and corned use asymmetric warfare tactics to hit an enemy’s economic lifelines - when seeing a stalemate in Uhud and enemies within, sue for peace and quietly build both numerical and economic strength. Trade & Purchase weapons from Jews and Gentiles without illogical boycotts to shore up capability to eventually take over weapons forges to build their own.

Gauge each enemy separately and use
appropriate tactics to tackle them, be it simply forgiving those capable of being good allies or cutting off leadership and future threats from those who were known to not back down.

Knowing to forgive an ignorant and generally insignificant woman who threw trash at him but requesting a renowned and influential poet be assassinated to quell his potential to rile up a threat.

Every second of his life an example,even when he delegated on knowledge he did not have - such as suggesting looking to subject matter expert from everything from agriculture to trench warfare.

Now compare so called 'Riasat-e-Madina'. Bajwa wants to forget everything in the past with India. All the animosity, the terror attacks orchestrated by India, the thousands of lives that were lost, all for nothing. Instead of replying in kind to take down Indian economy, Imran Khan wants to make our textiles dependent on Indian cotton. And all of this on the dictation of Kafirs. New factories of alcohol are being created. Swinery is being promoted in newspapers. Satan is being extoled in dance parties. Truly, we are doomed unless these leaders take lessons from the life of Holy Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Will they?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Actually its the opposite, I have never seen any PM handle such issue with such mature approach. From raising the issue where it is deserved to be raised. Why would you call that for political posture. What opposition was doing in government and even now is called political posturing. IK approach is valid and with reasoning, he pointed out the hypocrisy of the west like no other.

Can you elaborate what is wrong with his approach, other than your political affiliation?

If he succeeds in his approach this will be the greatest contribution in respect to this issue from any leader in Muslim world.

Disagree. Sometimes, these sort of opportunities are used by politicians to play to the crowd rather than achieve anything material, it's a fact you must accept and not view IK as some sort of messiah who is above these types of behaviors. I have no doubt he is sincere in his view, but actions and consequences are another matter.

On the part in bold, in my opinion, where reservations and comments on internal matters of other countries, especially neutral countries deserve to be raised is through diplomatic cables and back channels, or even directly with counterparts; but not on twitter. Not with hyperbolic comparisons to Nazi Germany, and not while addressing primarily a domestic audience. Just take a look at Macron's tweet in response, he did not address IK, he did not address even the accusation hurled at him, it was a slightly tangential comment deflecting the accusation.

I've heard it said somewhere likening the art of diplomacy to paddling on water, being calm and serene above the water, while paddling furiously below. In this case, Imran was doing the opposite, and I have to wonder to what effect? Has he swayed who needs to be swayed on this matter, knowing and understanding the free speech advocates in the west whom he takes issue with, I can say categorically: no.

And Did we even have the gumption or the ability to follow through on our protests? Thankfully no, a country like ours does not have the luxury of making enemies of $2.7trn economies, barely a few weeks after IK's comments and our vows to boycott France, we were accepting another round of aid, and big chunks of debt relief from them. Instead, all this did is that it earned him some applause and brownie points within Pakistan, from his own base, as well as the section of society that has now taken to the street. And I have to wonder, how much did IK's own highlighting and posturing contribute to heightening this issue to the awareness of some of those who are now rioting?

And it's not just the manner in which he did this that I disagree with, substantively on the subject of free speech and religious exceptions, I view this from the western perspective, and I don't agree with IK. The kid who beheaded a teacher for causing offence is what ignited this spat. And our Prophet PBUH during his lifetime was insulted, harassed, spat upon, early Muslims were attacked and even martyred. But at all times he continued to counsel restraint, forgiveness, and mercy, and violence as a last means. In his name today, a few of our people are going to foreign lands, where Islamic sensibilities and laws are not applicable, and some small amount of them are committing acts like this.

As for the Prophet ﷺ himself, the abuse he suffered from the idolaters of Quraysh was brutal. They spared no opportunity to demonize him, divorced his daughters, and exiled and starved his entire clan for three years. As for physical assault, ‘Uqba b. Abi Mu‘ayt strangled him from behind when he prayed in public, Abu Jahl ordered camel intestines to be dumped over him while he prostrated, ‘Utayba b. Abi Lahab spat at him, and others beat him unconscious.

A number of key observations can be noted from the period of persecution. Muhammad ﷺ clearly directed a policy of perseverance and non-violent response against a backdrop of repeated provocations of the Quraysh. These provocations increased in severity as the Quraysh grew frustrated at their failure to stop his preaching; he had an eager and receptive audience that grew steadily despite all efforts to instill fear in it.

.....

Pained by the visible suffering of his followers and unable to protect them from harm, Muhammad ﷺ was at the same time grieved at not being able to convince the community at large—among whom were many of his own clan members. Despite this, his strategy was a deliberate one: to continue to invite people, choosing to appeal to their sense of morality and reason over the potentially far more destructive use of force. When seen through the lens of a tribal society, any one of the provocations of Quraysh would have been sufficient cause for war between the tribes involved. Yet, we see unprecedented individual and collective self-control, conviction, and perseverance that can only be realized with great spiritual and moral foresight; this foresight was the foundation of a leadership strategy for reform that Muhammad ﷺ was carefully building at this stage in Mecca.

......

Ultimately, the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ fled this persecution by migrating with his Companions to Madinah, but not before leaving in the pages of history a matchless legacy of forgiveness and dignified dealings with one’s enemies. Below are but a few of these remarkable instances from humanity’s most luminous life ever:

1. Let the Angels Respond
....
2. They are Misguided in their Insults
....
3. Praying for their Guidance and Recognizing Potential
....
4. Sparing Them Divine Punishment
....
5. Showing Mercy On the Worst Day of His Life
....
6. More Hope in a Tribe than its own Chief
....
7. Maintaining the Trusts of his Persecutors
....
8. Integrity in Desperation
....

Further elaboration here - https://yaqeeninstitute.org/mohammad-elshinawy/how-the-prophet-muhammad-rose-above-enmity-and-insult

On Islamophobia, I have to say that France has recently tried to pass a few rather draconian laws, specifically targeting the Muslim community, it may be justifiable from a security perspective, but that is a matter IMO more befitting of some concern being expressed to France about their policies. Even then, it should be exercised through proper channels, and not seized upon as a means of posturing, even if that is not the intention of IK, it's what it ended up being in practice. However, this potentially opens up another set of uncomfortable questions. If we are being sincere in raising our voice against Islamophobia internationally, why choose such a poor example as the murder of a teacher following depictions of the Prophet? Dare IK speak instead about China's actions in Xinjiang? About the systematic attempts to 'dereligify' parts of their country? In truth, I'd rather not have IK speak about this either, our intervention would have no material benefit to anyone, and might cost us a very valuable and close friend. Anyway, I think that is sufficient explanation as to my opinion.

 

[VCheng]

Oddly - people screaming for the heads of anyone they believe insulted the prophet also are the ones most far from his character.

Complete lack of empathy for fellow humans, inconsiderate and unhygienic in acts and appearance - with no concept of economics, diplomacy and tact which the prophet was second to none in.

An example of a life for every possible scenario - when weak and corned use asymmetric warfare tactics to hit an enemy’s economic lifelines - when seeing a stalemate in Uhud and enemies within, sue for peace and quietly build both numerical and economic strength. Trade & Purchase weapons from Jews and Gentiles without illogical boycotts to shore up capability to eventually take over weapons forges to build their own.

Gauge each enemy separately and use
appropriate tactics to tackle them, be it simply forgiving those capable of being good allies or cutting off leadership and future threats from those who were known to not back down.

Knowing to forgive an ignorant and generally insignificant woman who threw trash at him but requesting a renowned and influential poet be assassinated to quell his potential to rile up a threat.

Every second of his life an example,even when he delegated on knowledge he did not have - such as suggesting looking to subject matter expert from everything from agriculture to trench warfare.

What is more important here is not the religious aspect, or the lack thereof, as you mention, but the fact that an extremist group is able to influence parliamentary debate and government policy like what has just happened. The after effects of this blunder will be studied all across the world, and will be seen within Pakistan in the near future.

 

[syedtalhamaududi]

Sultan Abdulhamid 2, was the 34th sultan of the Ottoman Empire, and Khalifa of the Muslims of the times.
He summoned the french ambassador and informed him that if a play that was scheduled to go ahead in paris, in which the theme was to ridicule our Holy Master SAW, ( and Allah's curse be on those who tried this) The Ottoman Empire would launch a devastating war against France.
The french rat then said in his society freedom of speech was an absolute right and they would not be able to stop the play.
The Khalifa then reiterated the concequence of this and guaranteed that he would go to war.
The play was shelved.
Now a hundred and a few years later the same scenario has been acted out. The characters are different.
Some people in the most powerful Muslim country in the world today, ask that the french ambassador is expelled as the french authorities have made it a policy to ridicule our Holy Master, The best of creation ( may the curse of Allah SWT be on those who support the french authority on this).
Our prime minister, who never tires of describing the Holy City of Medina is too frightened to expell the ambassador. He fears for the economy. Our Army Chief who has command of near enough million fighting men, in active or reserve duty wishes the bury the hatchet with India, who is killing and humiliating Kashmiris everyday.
Our leadership and liberals are betraying what is the fabric of our society and are still treated as dirt by world community. And this will never stop

 

[Patriot forever]

Disagree. Sometimes, these sort of opportunities are used by politicians to play to the crowd rather than achieve anything material, it's a fact you must accept and not view IK as some sort of messiah who is above these types of behaviors. I have no doubt he is sincere in his view, but actions and consequences are another matter.

On the part in bold, in my opinion, where reservations and comments on internal matters of other countries, especially neutral countries deserve to be raised is through diplomatic cables and back channels, or even directly with counterparts; but not on twitter. Not with hyperbolic comparisons to Nazi Germany, and not while addressing primarily a domestic audience. Just take a look at Macron's tweet in response, he did not address IK, he did not address even the accusation hurled at him, it was a slightly tangential comment deflecting the accusation.

I've heard it said somewhere likening the art of diplomacy to paddling on water, being calm and serene above the water, while paddling furiously below. In this case, Imran was doing the opposite, and I have to wonder to what effect? Has he swayed who needs to be swayed on this matter, knowing and understanding the free speech advocates in the west whom he takes issue with, I can say categorically: no.

And Did we even have the gumption or the ability to follow through on our protests? Thankfully no, a country like ours does not have the luxury of making enemies of $2.7trn economies, barely a few weeks after IK's comments and our vows to boycott France, we were accepting another round of aid, and big chunks of debt relief from them. Instead, all this did is that it earned him some applause and brownie points within Pakistan, from his own base, as well as the section of society that has now taken to the street. And I have to wonder, how much did IK's own highlighting and posturing contribute to heightening this issue to the awareness of some of those who are now rioting?

And it's not just the manner in which he did this that I disagree with, substantively on the subject of free speech and religious exceptions, I view this from the western perspective, and I don't agree with IK. The kid who beheaded a teacher for causing offence is what ignited this spat. And our Prophet PBUH during his lifetime was insulted, harassed, spat upon, early Muslims were attacked and even martyred. But at all times he continued to counsel restraint, forgiveness, and mercy, and violence as a last means. In his name today, a few of our people are going to foreign lands, where Islamic sensibilities and laws are not applicable, and some small amount of them are committing acts like this.



On Islamophobia, I have to say that France has recently tried to pass a few rather draconian laws, specifically targeting the Muslim community, it may be justifiable from a security perspective, but that is a matter IMO more befitting of some concern being expressed to France about their policies. Even then, it should be exercised through proper channels, and not seized upon as a means of posturing, even if that is not the intention of IK, it's what it ended up being in practice. However, this potentially opens up another set of uncomfortable questions. If we are being sincere in raising our voice against Islamophobia internationally, why choose such a poor example as the murder of a teacher following depictions of the Prophet? Dare IK speak instead about China's actions in Xinjiang? About the systematic attempts to 'dereligify' parts of their country? In truth, I'd rather not have IK speak about this either, our intervention would have no material benefit to anyone, and might cost us a very valuable and close friend. Anyway, I think that is sufficient explanation as to my opinion.

I think we differ in the manner of approach.

In my opinion what IK said is on point. As an Islamic state if an incident is carried out it should be called out aloud. The incident in France was as a result of state of France hypocritic stance on insulting other religion in the name of freedom of expression, while they themselves curb such in case of holocaust. This hypocrisy had to highlighted for the whole world to see. His recent address made all the right ripples.

As a state we should move towards finding a permanent solution to this repetitive insults to our holy prophet P.B.U.H.

To be honest I would have supported TLP call, but the only reason I am not is because I know this will not stop this cycle of repetitive insults rather will fuel it further. Would have little to no impact on France but will affect us. There is no outcome to their approach. I support the cause and a rational productive approach to achieving that.

We must see who is using this incident for personal agendas and who is trying to have some form of agreement with the west regarding this issue. The points you raised regarding IK using it as a publicity stunt actually fits better on the likes of TLP, JUIF and PLMN (the munafiqeen). The likes of JUIF and TLP exist because of such incidents, the last thing they want is for it to end.

I do not agree with your rounding up this issue with France as focal point, last time it was some other country next time it can be someone else. Specifically like holocaust laws do not just exist in a few countries rather the whole west.

If Muslims countries unite they can present a resolution in general assembly demanding that, Like the Jews raised it globally.

Sultan Abdulhamid 2, was the 34th sultan of the Ottoman Empire, and Khalifa of the Muslims of the times.
He summoned the french ambassador and informed him that if a play that was scheduled to go ahead in paris, in which the theme was to ridicule our Holy Master SAW, ( and Allah's curse be on those who tried this) The Ottoman Empire would launch a devastating war against France.
The french rat then said in his society freedom of speech was an absolute right and they would not be able to stop the play.
The Khalifa then reiterated the concequence of this and guaranteed that he would go to war.
The play was shelved.
Now a hundred and a few years later the same scenario has been acted out. The characters are different.
Some people in the most powerful Muslim country in the world today, ask that the french ambassador is expelled as the french authorities have made it a policy to ridicule our Holy Master, The best of creation ( may the curse of Allah SWT be on those who support the french authority on this).
Our prime minister, who never tires of describing the Holy City of Medina is too frightened to expell the ambassador. He fears for the economy. Our Army Chief who has command of near enough million fighting men, in active or reserve duty wishes the bury the hatchet with India, who is killing and humiliating Kashmiris everyday.
Our leadership and liberals are betraying what is the fabric of our society and are still treated as dirt by world community. And this will never stop

The point has one flaw, the French at that time cared and trembled at the thought of going to war with the ottoman empire. They really don't give a **** if we expel their ambassador.

The Muslim is weak today because it is not united. See how the Arab world is pandering to Israel?

 

[truthfollower]

Knowing to forgive an ignorant and generally insignificant woman who threw trash at him but requesting a renowned and influential poet be assassinated to quell his potential to rile up a threat.

in the end its all about power then? a person not cable of any threat is forgiven. But a person capable to challange your superioirty, is allowed to be killed even if its just about poetry?

 

[SQ8]

What is more important here is not the religious aspect, or the lack thereof, as you mention, but the fact that an extremist group is able to influence parliamentary debate and government policy like what has just happened. The after effects of this blunder will be studied all across the world, and will be seen within Pakistan in the near future.

Well - before we do that one should look into our current nationality where extremists did influence the legislature and executive branch. The results of that are plain to see.

in the end its all about power then? a person not cable of any threat is forgiven. But a person capable to challange your superioirty, is allowed to be killed even if its just about poetry?

It is all about living in this world - being the human condition and still overcoming it. Ask the Buddhists who tried to forgive and then were massacred if your whimsical efforts to launch a remark at the prophet make sense to them now.

 

[truthfollower]

It is all about living in this world - being the human condition and still overcoming it. Ask the Buddhists who tried to forgive and then were massacred

TLP demands are valid then?

 

[syedtalhamaududi]

I think we differ in the manner of approach.

In my opinion what IK said is on point. As an Islamic state if an incident is carried out it should be called out aloud. The incident in France was as a result of state of France hypocritic stance on insulting other religion in the name of freedom of expression, while they themselves curb such in case of holocaust. This hypocrisy had to highlighted for the whole world to see. His recent address made all the right ripples.

View attachment 736161

As a state we should move towards finding a permanent solution to this repetitive insults to our holy prophet P.B.U.H.

To be honest I would have supported TLP call, but the only reason I am not is because I know this will not stop this cycle of repetitive insults rather will fuel it further. Would have little to no impact on France but will affect us. There is no outcome to their approach. I support the cause and a rational productive approach to achieving that.

We must see who is using this incident for personal agendas and who is trying to have some form of agreement with the west regarding this issue. The points you raised regarding IK using it as a publicity stunt actually fits better on the likes of TLP, JUIF and PLMN (the munafiqeen). The likes of JUIF and TLP exist because of such incidents, the last thing they want is for it to end.

I do not agree with your rounding up this issue with France as focal point, last time it was some other country next time it can be someone else. Specifically like holocaust laws do not just exist in a few countries rather the whole west.

If Muslims countries unite they can present a resolution in general assembly demanding that, Like the Jews raised it globally.


The point has one flaw, the French at that time cared and trembled at the thought of going to war with the ottoman empire. They really don't give a **** if we expel their ambassador.

The Muslim is weak today because it is not united. See how the Arab world is pandering to Israel?

No one is asking for war, but just expelling their ambassador,

 

[Azadkashmir]

ppl said imran khan is jew agent maybe they were right the mask is falling off plus military is a joke but when USA says do more they say how much dollar?.

I partially blame tlp but they are mostly masses of poor and uneducated and a promise made to them was broken which triggered the mob riot. The police are now praised but some cops run brothels, alcohol, drug business.

The third sellouts are the cheap nasty media do anything for a dollar from cia channels. the media the least they could have done is draw cartoons of french leaders as hypocrites and expose them in the mirror.

We had communism, we had the capitalism with imf usury etc now give the muslim masses the chance of their monetary and economy gold and silver and barter trade. if not at least move towards with printing paper money debt free.