PM chairs meeting on PIA: 10 Boeing 777 will be inducted

[imiakhtar]

lolz how much let me book one if the discount is 99.9999% honestly

Standard discount on the 77W is 50%. Boeing is desperate to sell 777s to avoid a production rate cut so they will probably sell you one for $150 million. Current list price for a 77W is $330 million.

I remember Airbus A320 brand new was offered to an airline for 26 mil USD where as the actual cost is 108mil USD. Big price cut.

That's incorrect. Current list price of an A320 is $97 million. Airbus has an overbooked situation with the A320 and unless you are an important customer, you won't recieve more than a 60% discount.

Is there maintenance facility will be built in Pakistan or the planes have to move to another country where facility is??

Is there any maintenance facility of civilian aircraft in Pakistan?

PIA maintenance is carried out at the Isphani hanger at Karachi Intl. Maintenance facilities may be built at the New Islamabad airport.

If you say maintenance then Full maintenance of an aircraft can be done by PIA for bot Boeing and Airbus.

At the moment, there are no heavy maintenance approvals for the A320.

The most important destination is Saudi Arabia which has a turn around time of 10hrs maximum. For this PIA should opt for B777-300 domestics or B747-800 Domestic which can carry more passengers.

Too much plane. The Mid-East-Pak market is cyclical and with such large aircraft you would have them flying nearly empty regularly.

If one compare India distance to USA then B777-200LR is able to fly from Mumbai to New York but if one goes further south (Thiruvananthapuram) or east (Chennai) then even the B-777-200 LR can not fly with full load to USA. Hence the requirement of having the B787 dreamliners.

You've actually got it the wrong way round. Nothing (apart from the A340-500) can touch the payload-range capabilities of the 777-200LR. Not even the 787 or A350.

A330's are being replaced by 787.

No they're not.

Current 787 fleet does not provide the same benefits as 777-300er, both are very different in performance.

A Boeing 787-9 which is slightly smaller than a 777-200ER will burn 5,500kg of fuel per hour on a long haul trip. The 777-200ER will burn 6,500kg/hour on the same flight. A 777-300ER will burn closer to 8000kg/hour for a long haul flight. How is the B787-9 much lower fuel burn not a benefit?

777 has more powerful engine so thats why higher payload cap.

Looking at the performance specs of the engines doesn't give a good idea of the payload abilities of an aircraft.

For example, the GE90-115 on the 77W produces 115,000lb of thrust and will carry 70,000kg of payload. The A350-1000 will have 97,000lbf engines and will carry a max payload of about 69,000kg.

LOL if going for future planes thn why not 777-9x?

PIA is struggling to fill its 777-200ER aircraft. Why would they go for the -9X which is even larger than their 300ER?

The operation cost of A380 is too high and it is only feasible on long duration flights not 2 hr flights.

If your cost base is low enough, regional flights can work with the A380. Emirates flies the A380 Dubai-Jeddah.

That issue has been solved...

It was never solved. Boeing just built a better containment system.

Now it uses the same battery as B777

Nope. The 787 is still using lithium ion batteries.

B-787's would not be bought by PIA because Airbus would no like it.

Airbus couldn't care less.

When PIA bought the B777's it had to cancel the orders already placed with Airbus of A-340-500.

Nonsense again. No such thing happened.

PIA has never ordered an A340.

Airbus had to offer these aircraft as buy one get one free in the open market.

No they didn't. Nonsense again.

That's really low, 737s need more runway than 4000ft.

With maximum manual braking, a 737-800 can be stopped in 3500ft. With Max AUTO brakes, you can stop in 4000ft.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Toronto inbound and outbound flights are always full due to zero stops in the way.

PIA is expensive to fly from Toronto to Karachi/Lahore/Islamabad but some people prefer flying non-stop direct 13 hour flight.

 

[mingle]

it will be lease or PIA will purchase it from Boeing ?

I hope they wont get used ones from Americans .if new then pakistan can get finance from axam bank but i douted they will be used one .

 

[New World]

That's incorrect. Current list price of an A320 is $97 million. Airbus has an overbooked situation with the A320 and unless you are an important customer, you won't recieve more than a 60% discount.

60% discount ??

 

[razgriz19]

bottom line is a newer model of 777 is coming out, Boeing needs the production lines to still run for 300ER even though a newer bird is announced. They're willing to give huge discounts to customer who are looking for 300ER.

 

[RoadRunner401]

Ok for those of you who have no idea about the financial situation of PIA, it is a loss making airlines, and can not buy planes. Many of its planes not maintained to a level where they can fly to European countries and thus they are leasing jets as a time saving, face saving measures. And before you argue look at a 5 year financial statement of the airlines and the outlook of the airlines by auditors both government and international.
And the reason for this is mismanagement of the PIA because of continuous political interference with excessive jobs in ratio with planes which are continuously increasing. Political cronies in every government, have inducted their favorites into jobs with the PIA and have continuously ignored the reports of over staffing.
Protecting the economic skies - The Express Tribune
Central bank terms huge workforce root cause of PIA’s financial woes - thenews.com.pk
Corruption, mismanagement causes of PIA losses | Pakistan Today
Overstaffed PIA hires PAF officers on high salaries - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
EU suspends PIA safety certificate - thenews.com.pk
US, EU impose ban on PIA cargo service | Pakistan Today

The issue here is that we will privatize this airlines and lose it because no government is brave enough to let go nearly half the work force as needed to make this airlines efficient, nor is it capable of honest reforms needed. Instead of trying to set this airlines we are handing over a potential gold mine to foreign hands with our airport rights because of inefficiency of continuous governments in the last 2 decades.
again before debating search and do not troll.
As far as maintenance is concerned some is done in Pakistan, but over hauling of engines and other assorted parts are not done here.

I noticed one thing ON PDF, people like you who actually care and wanna come up with a solution are always ignored. They much rather discuss things that have absolutely positively nothing to do with topic. But are sexy like, buying bigger or smaller planes.

PIA is a loss leader and it needs to be shut down or privatized, like most other countries have done. Pakistan is way pass the stage of turn it around.

 

[imiakhtar]

60% discount ??

Yes.

Production costs for narrow body aircraft like the 737 and A320 are much lower than widebodies, which in addition to a few other factors means the manufacturers can discount them more heavily.

If you are an important customer like Ryanair, Easyjet, Southwest Airlines etc and are willing to buy hundreds, going by history you will get at least 60% off list price.

We estimate that (after factoring in PDPs) SWA is paying ~$5.67B for the 131 MAXs in 2019-2022, or $43.3M each; assuming an average of nine years of price escalation at 2.5%/year, the base price would be $34.7M – a 64% discount off the 737MAX-8 list price. We do not view this as an indication of a “price war” between Boeing and Airbus, as SWA is a priority 737 operator that was certain to receive the most favorable MAX launch-customer pricing.

Wells Fargo estimates Southwest paid base price $34.7m for MAX - Leeham News and Comment

 

[WishLivePak]

I noticed one thing ON PDF, people like you who actually care and wanna come up with a solution are always ignored. They much rather discuss things that have absolutely positively nothing to do with topic. But are sexy like, buying bigger or smaller planes.

PIA is a loss leader and it needs to be shut down or privatized, like most other countries have done. Pakistan is way pass the stage of turn it around.

Sadly some people don't learn and refuse to accept mistakes.

I was quite vocal about how unions and employees of PIA have damaged airline in a forum for PIA. I got banned there. Why? PIA is the best and you cannot criticize it. And those who tell that PIA can be improved if it lets go of its workforce then you're not welcome.

All those delays, smuggling etc etc are stories maligning PIA. PIA is like pure milk.

When you have too many employees, with nothing much to do and low wages, they're bound to smuggle or illegal stuff. The solution is to hire less people and pay better versus hire more people and pay little. We've some 800 people per plane while other nations employ 200 per plane. Obviously with surplus of 12000+ employees, the airline will go to hell.

 

[janu.bravo]

PIA is struggling to fill its 777-200ER aircraft. Why would they go for the -9X which is even larger than their 300ER?

Not exactly...i agree they are struggling to fill but this thing vary route-to-route.
Again best option right now is to buy A-321...and in case PIA think they need big Planes then 777 is the best option.

 

[WishLivePak]

Not exactly...i agree they are struggling to fill but this thing vary route-to-route.
Again best option right now is to buy A-321...and in case PIA think they need big Planes then 777 is the best option.

An order for a321neo would be good. Think future. In 3-5 years the plane will arrive, so order now. But nope, they'll get an expensive lease on some old a321 3 years from now instead.

 

[tarrar]

PIA was the in the top 10 best Airlines in the world, I hope we see that again. PIA & Pak Railways can be a huge source of income for Pakistan if managed properly.

 

[janu.bravo]

An order for a321neo would be good. Think future. In 3-5 years the plane will arrive, so order now. But nope, they'll get an expensive lease on some old a321 3 years from now instead.

True!!!

 

[Archie]

Well for most bang for your Bucks and in this case Tax payer Dollars,
Nothing beats the A320
More than Half the planes being Flown by Indian Carriers comprise of the A320

You guys need to check on Return on Investments
Air India ordered 28 Boeing 777-300ER in 2007 for 7 Billion USD
It has not been able to pay a single rupee against the loan which it took to purchase these planes
Its mainly Because nobody likes taking Air India for long haul routes, and the company struggles to fill the seats on these routes.
Even I take British Airways for Travel between US-India, ironically its cheaper

 

[WishLivePak]

Well for most bang for your Bucks and in this case Tax payer Dollars,
Nothing beats the A320
More than Half the planes being Flown by Indian Carriers comprise of the A320

You guys need to check on Return on Investments
Air India ordered 28 Boeing 777-300ER in 2007 for 7 Billion USD
It has not been able to pay a single rupee against the loan which it took to purchase these planes
Its mainly Because nobody likes taking Air India for long haul routes, and the company struggles to fill the seats on these routes.
Even I take British Airways for Travel between US-India, ironically its cheaper

Well if you don't fly 777, then you're giving away the route. That business will be taken over by Middle East mostly.

Not flying long routes isn't the solution, solution is to make it profitable.

PIA was the in the top 10 best Airlines in the world, I hope we see that again. PIA & Pak Railways can be a huge source of income for Pakistan if managed properly.

It was Asia best airline and top 10 world wide

 

[SHAMK9]

You guys need to check on Return on Investments
Air India ordered 28 Boeing 777-300ER in 2007 for 7 Billion USD
It has not been able to pay a single rupee against the loan which it took to purchase these planes
Its mainly Because nobody likes taking Air India for long haul routes, and the company struggles to fill the seats on these routes.
Even I take British Airways for Travel between US-India, ironically its cheaper

How does air india plan on paying for huge 787 order?