Plan Afoot to Buy 40 Aircrafts for PIA: Defence Minister

[jha]

Govt. Airlines are doing bad in India also..Air-India is in very deep trouble...

 

[Tayyab1796]

I have had experience of flying on PIA flights from Lahore/London and every PIA flight from/to UK is almost full .

 

[Luftwaffe]

How is it that Multan flights starting off with Hajj then proceeding to other international flight will help Pakistan? When flight from Peshawar and Quetta has been restricted Infact Peshawar/Quetta has been alienated. Is there any current flight directly from Peshawar to Quetta and Back No. So unless we fix the domestic issues how do we expect international flights to be a success, Not to forget russians pissing us off. World has no problem with even small african airlines passing by but with PIA there is a trust deficit Now i am not sure what is the trouble i would finger point at PIA and the people running it.

 

[Al Bhatti]

Well ... yes how to make it profitable

Well you can solve the problem by looking at the Report

REFERENCE: http://www.piac.com.pk/PIA_About/profiles/2010/ThirdQuarter-2010_01112010.pdf

This is from page Page 10 of 49 PIA report, OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THEIR REPORT and with gov of Pakistan for all Tax purpose !!!

From their Main website - too download it before they delete it


Revenue PIA = 863,000 USD only not even Million Dollars


Expenses on Fuel : 365,038 (Depends on Market fuel cost)
Expenses on Other : 416,985 (almost half a million for expenses)

So profit shown was a mere
90,624 (What 1 guy makes in USA) So this is our crown jewl corporation Pride of our country it functions for 1 year (9 months in this reports ) and makes just 90,000 dollars

Then all other expenses and costs like money exchange etc is
130,000 USD (About less then cost of Ferrari car)


So here is the situation , the company is making about 90,000 dollars but it wants the gov to invest 10 billion dollars to save it ?

My question is

a) Less then 1 Million dollar in revenue? WTF ? Thats it ???

b) Also when you are making such less what are these other expenses
that take up 60% of your profit ?


The problem is the numbers don't add up
The reports says the company made revenue of 800,000? Right

How much it costs to fly UK to Pakistan ? 1500 usd / person
so that means 533 passengers ALL OVER WORLD TO GIVE IT REVENUE OF 800,000 ONLY

How much ppl fly in 1 PIA flight ?? well 200 passengers? So do you guys see the problem ??

The reports says it made Revenue of 800,000 USD , and that means 533 ppl flew on the planes @ 1500 USD / Person

So this report is FALSE !!!

There are 52 weeks in Year , PIA flyes weekly from UK to Pakistan weekly

150 passengers x 1500 USD X 52 = 11 Million Dollars from UK flights
7,800 passengers at least in year
There are 52 weeks in year , PIA flies weekly from USA to Pakistan

150 passengers x 1800 USD X 52 = 14 Million Dollars from USA 7,800 passengers at least in yearThere are 52 weeks in year , PIA flies weekly from Canada to Pakistan

150 passengers x 1800 USD X 52 = 14 Million Dollars from Canada7,800 passengers at least in year

So almost 23,000 passengers fly between 3 routs - while PIA claims only 533 passengers use its services in whole year so they make mere 800,000 revenue net

So by My calculations

PIA should be making 39,000,000 Million United States Dollars from
just 3 routes (New York - Karachi), (Toronto , Islamabad) , (London, Karachi)

So why is their report stating they made profit of only 90,000 dollars?
What bullshiaaaaaat????

Even if cost of catering and food is 400,000 USD but they made 40 million dollars from 3 international flights ....which always run FULL


Now I did not even add the flights from Pakistan - Middle east
I did not even add flights from Pakistan to Europe
I did not even add flights from Pakistan to Asia

So the problem is PIA has to be Audited on # of Tickets being sold vs what is being reported on books and has to be brought to court

The claim they only flew 500-600 passengers in year making profits 800,000 usd
while we all know 22,000 passengers fly between just 3 routes yearly

They really need to be brought to court I mean god , hiding profits of 40+ Million / year
and reporting only a profit of 90,000 dollar and that is also a lost due to gov tax ...

THEIVES !!! I say send this post to Cheif Justice and get them Checked




Problem's solution is simple

If I believed their lies , then we can still make profits
Based on above data any sensible person can see - what kind of bull **** their corporate report states 90,000 dollars profit ? After 9 months ? What are they doing running empty planes or flying ppl for free


But below meassures are not needed ... that was if no one was flying on PIA but I know PIA flights run full all the time

A) Ticket Prices have to go up by 10%

b) Food and other expenses have to be cut down
Food has to be made optional - You purchase
Mean on Airplane (30$ per passenger)

c) Extra money for extra bag (Only 2 bags allowed)


What needs to be done is Supreme court of Pakistan need to get a comitee that will ask all the tickets issued in year 2010 , and get verification of people who travelled in 2009-2010
and get rounded values of passengers that flew using PIA in international routes frist , and then also audit the local routs

PIA is hiding some serious TAX money from Government of Pakistan -
They must be hiding at least 70 million dollars US DOLLARS

And for past 10 years , 70 million x 10 = 700 million dollars in un declared taxes on this amount

I mean come on a biryani shop makes profit of 90,000 usd / year or 1 guy works full time in high post makes that much ... 1 person we are talking about a CORPORATION WITH 42 planes world wide service saying it makes just 90,000 usd ?? what ??? in the god's name where is the MONEY GOING ?? BLACK MARKET ? ?? SWISS BANK ACCOUNTS ??? POLITICAL AMBITIONS



Its common sense , all the international flights are booked and full thru out the year always 100% booked and sometimes you also need to book in advance so for anyone to say that

they made revenue of just 800,000 only is bull crap , that means only 533 passengers flew and me and you all know how many ppl fly each year on PIA

They are reporting it as Loss so they don't have to pay gov TAX and that is tax evasion and theft -....


CHEIF JUSTICE TIME

I bothered to read it and luckily there had calculations done in USD amount in page 10 on column and I was astonished at the level of curruption !!!

To claim only 533 ppl used PIA so they made just 800,000 USD in 9 months

While we all know just 3 routs make them 23,000 passengers = 49 million united states dollars and not less then million dollar as they claim choor- Big choori


or the plan is to sell this Entity too to some one for 100 million dollars ? or 50 million dollars ? hain ? This is such a clear choori bazi .... its just insane

I saw the report and would like to clarify a point:

the 90 thousand something declared on the report is not actually 90,000. In audit reports to avoid large values, above the column for a declared value is a term written "to be read in '000" means we have to add three 0s on the right of the given figures, so 90,000 profit becomes 90,000,000.

Now the same applies to the expenses we have to add 3 0s to the right of the figure. This is what has to be discussed as to why we have such a high cost of running the airline?

Are the in flight services provided by PIA par Emirates that accumulate in the balance sheet of PIA as expenses?

Is the in flight catering provided by PIA par Emirates that accumulate in the balance sheet of PIA as expenses?

Are the ground staff of PIA as freindly and helpful as Emirates staff that accumulate in the balance sheet of PIA as expenses?

Are they purchasing A380s and mordenising their fleet etc par Emirates that accumulate in the balance sheet of PIA as expenses?

Are the destinations that are served by PIA equal to if not more than the destinations served by Emirates that accumulate in the balance sheet of PIA as expenses?

These are just some of the hundreds of points to discuss in order to decrease the expenses and increase the profit.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

how much does PIA make off of the Roosevelt hotel investment in New York? Trends of the past few fiscal years?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In any case the information has been forwarded to some judges - to open investigates
I got response back from local judge he stated he will get the info send in to appropriate channels


I will investigate Emirates income, and operational cost
and compare it with PIA

But if we did the TRIPLE zero approach , it means PIA workers were paid 460,000,000 i.e 500 milliond dollars that makes no sense!!


Do PIA workers get paid 60,000 USD / year or more I don't think so that is the case.
as 70% earn low incomes

 

[maverick1977]

Where is the competitiion in airline industry. its based on IN-FLIGHT SERVICES. PIA is terrible for in-flight services. Air hostesses deal with passangers as if we all are going their on free ride or are refugees or low class, what ever u wanna call in, their attitude is terrible. in one of flights one of airhostesses lost it and started cursing at a passanger, poor guy got panicked and started saying sorry to her for asking her a glass of water for himself. " she went, ap bar bar tang kyon kar rahay hain, kaha na pani la doongee apko, he had asked her for the last 15 minutues or so".... i will never travel by PIA as long as they dont change their attitude...

PIA moto is, "great people to fly with" i say, " Terrible people to fly with"

 

[Tayyab1796]

Where is the competitiion in airline industry. its based on IN-FLIGHT SERVICES. PIA is terrible for in-flight services. Air hostesses deal with passangers as if we all are going their on free ride or are refugees or low class, what ever u wanna call in, their attitude is terrible. in one of flights one of airhostesses lost it and started cursing at a passanger, poor guy got panicked and started saying sorry to her for asking her a glass of water for himself. " she went, ap bar bar tang kyon kar rahay hain, kaha na pani la doongee apko, he had asked her for the last 15 minutues or so".... i will never travel by PIA as long as they dont change their attitude...

PIA moto is, "great people to fly with" i say, " Terrible people to fly with"

I agree they(PIA air hostesses) need training on treating people ... my gut feeling is because most of them (last time 300,000 applications were recieved for 18 positions of PIA air hostesses) have been selected through powerful political influences so they give a feck to customer service .

 

[imiakhtar]

For the sake of your own health Azad, I suggest you take a break from posting on this thread. Your posts are full of inaccuracies.

Now, I will try and address as many of the points as I can.

1- With regards the raked wing tips (and winglet extensions) PIA's 77W/77L have them by default as they come factory fitted. Also, the winglets are not available for every type PIA operates. The winglets are only available on the 737,757 and 767 of which PIA only operate the 737. Considering the fleet age of the 737 fleet and the short sectors PIA uses them on, the investment of new winglets would not be cost effective.

2- PIA's fleet stands at
12 x A310 (flights to mid-east, asia and europe)
6 x 737 (domestic routes and mid-east)
7 x ATR (domestic)
5 x 747 (hajj, domestic, mid-east and eu)
9 x 777 (hajj, domestic, mid-east, North America and EU)

6 of the A310s are leased

3- PIA is not a low cost carrier. The Ryanair business model would not fit the VFR and O+D traffic (visiting family relations and origin-destination) PIA operates to.

4- Razgriz, the 747 has no operational restrictions on domestic sectors. The altitude the aircraft is flown at depends almost entirely on the flightplan and airspace congestion.

5- The vast majority of airlines (PIA included) are paying around $2.50/gallon for fuel.

6- The EU black listing on the A310 and 747 was due to dodgy maintenance record keeping and was not a ploy to get PK to buy new planes (well duh, they didn't buy any!)

7- Azad, how do you expect PIA to post billions in profit when their operating income isn't that high? Statistics 101

8- I'm not sure how opening up new markets to AUS and other countries is going to help when PIA can't make existing ones work.

9- Azad post 46. If you read the report properly, you'll see that operating income was just above $800 million not $800 000. I suggest you read the accounts fully and engage brain prior to posting. The rest of your post is a joke.

In my opinion, the Pak gov needs to appoint a new management team (not retired defence staff) and have PIA fully and independently audited.

Once the cost structure has been worked out, PIA needs to think about improving it's product and joining an alliance or codesharing to help get some feed into it's international routes (British Airways and American Airlines would be a good start).

Only when the above has been done should PK go about inducting new aircraft. The 737 needs to be replaced urgently (followed by 747 and A310).

Apologies if I have caused offence to anyone. Granted, I could tone my post down a little and not be so darn patronising, but when people mess with stats, it drives me mad

 

[Sinnerman108]

^^^^
That possibly was the best written post I have seen in a long time.

The analysis is accurate and crisp, and I can agree with most of what has been said in this post.

The above holds 100 % true for all most all Gov departments.

Some things I wanted to add in here is, PIA needs new business models.

First and foremost PIA needs to define who they are ? are they a Gov institution responsible for distributing salaries, or are they a professional institution responsible for making money ?


They need to think of new business intelligence tools, I know they were evaluating some, but that didn't work.

I know for a fact, that this procurement like the last one is being done under pressure and just like the last one PIA will make a mess.

If i remember correctly, just maintaining the air craft configurations was more expesive than the returns !

 

[SHAMK9]

I have had experience of flying on PIA flights from Lahore/London and every PIA flight from/to UK is almost full .

toronto route is making full profits. even business+ goes full on this route. Canada is trying to ban emirates and etihad that will force people to tracel in PIA more or Air canada

 

[Super Falcon]

What type of Aircrafts PIA is interested in is it be A 380 or as same old ones hope Boeing 777 and Boeing Dreamliners and also few A 380 will be on think tanks of PIA becoz PIA is most old than many airlines in the world but still have few destinations to its compitators emirates and etihad who were only few years old but have more destinations than PIA and i always preferd to travekl by PIA many times i saw PIA full but still it is un profitable out of understanding what PIA has to so give good services to people

 

[SHAMK9]

What type of Aircrafts PIA is interested in is it be A 380 or as same old ones hope Boeing 777 and Boeing Dreamliners and also few A 380 will be on think tanks of PIA becoz PIA is most old than many airlines in the world but still have few destinations to its compitators emirates and etihad who were only few years old but have more destinations than PIA and i always preferd to travekl by PIA many times i saw PIA full but still it is un profitable out of understanding what PIA has to so give good services to people

All i know is that PIA cant afford a380's...millions to buy one and billion $$$ expansions of the airports...PIA is looking at a320/a321 family, 737-800 or 737-900... and might replace its 747 and a310...long story short...out of money

 

[Mani2020]

I think they will be looking for some A-320 as last time they were interested in leasing them but then the deal was cancelled.


One good thing they can do is that with the induction of new planes they can retire and transfer A310's to PAF as they are already operating them ,these A-310's can be fitted with Air refueling tanks to refuel F-16's.
if Airbus agrees to upgrade them to MRTT because last time they refused it saying A-310's are out of production and offered A-320 but as PAF didn't have maintainance facility for A-320 so they rejected it if PIA inducts A-320 then PIA will surely establish a maintainance facility and this will also help PAF ,so they might look into A-320

 

[alimobin memon]

they said delivery will start frm end of december what happened to deal....