Plan Afoot to Buy 40 Aircrafts for PIA: Defence Minister

[Nothing]

PIA's fleet

7 x ATR 42-500
12 x Airbus A310-300
6 x Boeing 737-300
1 x Boeing 747-200B (SCD)
5 x Boeing 747-300
4 x Boeing 777-200ER
2 x Boeing 777-200LR
3 x Boeing 777-300ER

 

[Nothing]

Aircraft Number Age Rank for the age by aircraft type
Airbus A310 12 17.8 years On 38 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 8
ATR 42/72 7 4 years On 139 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 23
Boeing 737 6 23.9 years On 301 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 192
Boeing 747 5 23.7 years On 100 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 70
Boeing 777 9 4.8 years On 52 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 20
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TOTAL 39 14 years The calculation of the fleet age can be approximated because it is only based on the supported aircraft

By looking at this table ..certainly PIA needs new aircraft. Big birds in fleet is pretty old well above industry average.

 

[razgriz19]

You know I always wonder how comes Ryanair is going in profit despite offering tickets for very low rates. They start offering tickets at £1 i think and if Airport taxes are included it still remains less than 20 pounds for various destinations.

Last time I travelled from London to Oslo (Norway) and back to London and that cost me only £10 for return ticket or you can say about 1250 rupees for almost 1000 miles of journey. Its 1 hours and 40 minutes flight and you can say its a small carrier so must be holding about 150 passengers i think. Now calculate yourself.... 150 x £10 = £1500 pounds for "return" ticket

and now in this £1500 pounds (or 750 pounds for single journey) they have to pay a fee to its pilot, staff, airport tax, administration fee, marketing etc. But despite running such a cheap service still they are going in profit every year...

Look at the increasing numbers of passengers each year for this airline

This is a typical aircraft they use in their service

Now I am failed to understand why can't we have similar service in Pakistan? - why can't Pakistan have small aircrafts running domestic flights for like 500 - 800 rupees from Lahore to Karachi? They are almost same in journey but they are in Pakistan (a cheaper country) so they should be offering cheaper prices instead. But what they are doing is, offering a ticket ranging from 4000 - 6000 rupees if I am not wrong (last time i checked it was 5500 rupees i think).

totally agree with u on aircraft size!
last time i travelled from karachi to lahore, and guess what the aircrfat was 747!!! u kno how much fuel it burns during take off!!!
and it doesn't even reach its operating altitude, meaning NO FUEL EFFICIENCY!!!
PIA badly needs some more short-haul a/c for domestic flights as they are more fuel affiecient than big aircrafts on short distance.

but on ur pricing scenario, i dont agree with u
u have to consider that PIA buys fuel in $$$ and so they have to bring the fare(which is in rupee) relatively close to the fare that an american airline would charge for same distance flight.
and americans usually charge $150-$200 for 1.5-2 hr long flight(which is relatively same as khi to lhr)

and so if we take 150 and multiply by 80 ($1=around 80 rupees) we get around 12000!
i kno its a big number in rupees but thats how much they should charge to get minimum profit.....
and btw if the value of rupee goes down then fares will be more expensive!

 

[razgriz19]

Aircraft Number Age Rank for the age by aircraft type
Airbus A310 12 17.8 years On 38 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 8
ATR 42/72 7 4 years On 139 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 23
Boeing 737 6 23.9 years On 301 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 192
Boeing 747 5 23.7 years On 100 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 70
Boeing 777 9 4.8 years On 52 airlines operating this type of aircraft Pakistan International Airlines ranks 20
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TOTAL 39 14 years The calculation of the fleet age can be approximated because it is only based on the supported aircraft

By looking at this table ..certainly PIA needs new aircraft. Big birds in fleet is pretty old well above industry average.

self deleted

 

[Hyde]

but on ur pricing scenario, i dont agree with u
u have to consider that PIA buys fuel in $$$ and so they have to bring the fare(which is in rupee) relatively close to the fare that an american airline would charge for same distance flight.
and americans usually charge $150-$200 for 1.5-2 hr long flight(which is relatively same as khi to lhr)

and so if we take 150 and multiply by 80 ($1=around 80 rupees) we get around 12000!
i kno its a big number in rupees but thats how much they should charge to get minimum profit.....
and btw if the value of rupee goes down then fares will be more expensive!

Then how comes an European airline that too buy fuel in same $$$ just like American or Pakistani airline can offer such a cheap airline and still running on profit?

I just checked the latest fares of ryanair its still between £16 - £22 depending upon the dates selected... and its a return ticket.

Don't they buy fuel from the same international market?

 

[Jigs]

I hope PIA fleet expansion goes well. THY is also expanding its fleet.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I personally think PIA has enough planes its main problems are as follow

#1 In this age and time , PIA tickets can't be bought from major
Ticket selling companies online for some reason they hide
PIA in searches ocassionally I will see PIA name being listed
but most of the time I do not see them there.

1000 ppl buy tickets and becasue 900 can't find local PIA agent they buy
UAE plane tickets or Egyptian airline tickets as these companies are openly
visible in major websites that broker tickets

The agents sometimes commit mistakes and that relects badly
on PIA itself , the change and cancellation policies have to be
Made passenger friendly

#2 The seats in PIA last time I travelled , were too close to each other
and extra 10-15 seats were sqeezed in , while they may have
given small time profit to airlines - it leaves a bad impression with
alot of passengers who can't have leg room for long flights

#3 They need to operate smaller size planes 50-100 passenger range
for local routes at cheaper rates. To change with demad


#4 They need to change their Image offer , healthy vegetarian
alternatives on their flights and fresh juices

#5 The washrooms have to be watched and routinely checked for you
know what I mean, alot of paindoos go in there and clog up the wash
rooms with paper and then the ***** just accumulates

This is an administrative task so they need to fly someone who can
handle this task - a clean washroom keeps passengers happy.


More focus on baggae security and fast delivery goal should be the passenger is in and out of check in in 2 min -3 min. No unnessisary lines
Ideally ppl should be allowed to check in items 1-2 days before their flights. So these items can be scanned and checked.


This will improve our standing in international airports as less chance of suspectible good to go thru and also the check in times for PIA will be fast.

The sight of Pakistani passengers with 10 bags and 100 ppl standing in lines in customs has to change - and mostly these are PIA passengers

International airports also screen PIA bit more due to fact they allow 10-20 bags with passengers , ideally ppl should check in their items and get it delivered in 2-3 days using PIA cargoo services

Lack of Information Availability

a) If Cargo services like Fedex are used in PIA how can I get my order sent ? etc
Internationally or locally more improved approaches are needed , they got a web site
but when you compare UPS or Fedex , they look a bit slow

b) For Passenger services , obviously the goal should be to make the trip pleasent for
Pakistanis

c) Also they should offer international passengers (none pakistanis), incentives and discounts
to choose PIA for travel to Pakistan etc discounts and other perks

PIA should perhaps look into Chinese commercial airliners or Russian Planes
beside the hefty boing and airbus - the reports on new big planes by airbus is not good alot of new planes have been grounded heard in news - if it was PIA plane it would be banned in europe but because now the problem is theirs there are no Bans ?

So there are also political considerations in picture

Also PIA should open services to CUBA/Vanezuela and in return , Pakistani Gov should negotiate good deals on fuel for planes we promote your tourism industry you support our airlines with cheaper fuel incentives

 

[fatman17]

this is a good 'dream scenario' - who is going to foot the bill for these 40 jet-liners costing on average US$200 per a/c. = US$8billion!!!!!

we r still paying Boeing for the 777 purchase!

 

[Patriot]

We need another Nur Khan to head PIA and make it one of the best airlines company.

 

[razgriz19]

Then how comes an European airline that too buy fuel in same $$$ just like American or Pakistani airline can offer such a cheap airline and still running on profit?

I just checked the latest fares of ryanair its still between £16 - £22 depending upon the dates selected... and its a return ticket.

Don't they buy fuel from the same international market?

well first of all pakistani people carry huge amount of luggage! that adds weight and so the aircraft consumes more fuel
second. ryanair charges you for food(even refreshment) PIA doesn't!
third. ryanair also charges money on extra luggage, i believe its 9pounds/pound! and do remember that pakistani people carry atleast 25-30kg luggage with them(doesn't matter where they going)
and last but not least ryanair is a low-cost airline PIA is not!
low cost airlines have more conjested seats, because they add extra seats to make profits.
and i even heard that they were planning to charge each passenger for washroom!
thats low cost airline for ya! and btw i just read an article and it states that ryanair\s profits increased due to luggage charges!
my whole point is that the ticket may cost u less but u dtill have to pay extra!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

tell a Pakistani to travel 'light' and he/she will look at you funny!


even the lower income people will pack a pillowcase full of mangos, pan and reading digests lolllllllllll

 

[Hyde]

well first of all pakistani people carry huge amount of luggage! that adds weight and so the aircraft consumes more fuel
second. ryanair charges you for food(even refreshment) PIA doesn't!
third. ryanair also charges money on extra luggage, i believe its 9pounds/pound! and do remember that pakistani people carry atleast 25-30kg luggage with them(doesn't matter where they going)
and last but not least ryanair is a low-cost airline PIA is not!
low cost airlines have more conjested seats, because they add extra seats to make profits.
and i even heard that they were planning to charge each passenger for washroom!
thats low cost airline for ya! and btw i just read an article and it states that ryanair\s profits increased due to luggage charges!
my whole point is that the ticket may cost u less but u dtill have to pay extra!

but in that sense, PIA too can charge extra money for the additional services provided. Not everybody takes a bag of luggage with them and not everybody really eat food in that airline. Btw, Ryanair do allow 1 bag of hand luggage for free and many peoples are carrying a very heavy bag against their rule of 10kg allowed hehe

Any additional bag is charged per weight and that charge will only apply to those who will carry the luggage. Not regular travellers like myself or a person travelling from Lahore to Karachi for a day or two.

The intent of giving an example of ryanair was correct, PIA is not a cheap airline but it can be made very cheap and effective if they follow the footsteps of Ryanair. Here I am talking about domestic flights only as I don't really care what they charge for international flights

 

[PakSher]

This will be good for PIA and the economy. Travel is very important and to reduce maintenance costs and travel times, new aircraft are the need of the hour. One of the reasons of the problems of PIA are older planes and the entire fleet needs to be revived except the Beoing -777 LRs.

 

[ajpirzada]

Yaara seedhi si baat hai ke PIA can't come in profit for various reasons.... first of all - we know about the heavy employment they have

1) They have recuited about 19,000 peoples for just 42 Aircrafts
2) The fares for domestic flights are too expensive that the common man don't even consider travelling in an aircraft for domestic purposes
3) Administration is corrupt
4) Lots of extra benefits are being awarded to PIA employees
5) Lots of non-profitable flights are in service

very well pointed out.
there is no focus on improving the efficiency of existing resources but they want to buy 40 new aircrafts. if they are so interested in making PIA not go bankrupt, they should reduce staff to plane ratio

 

[Tayyab1796]

This is absolutly nuts... PIA is eating tax payers money for mere survival ...who on earth will finance such a huge (and more importantly illogical ) expansion of an ailing airline . PIA needs to get the basics right first ... downsize her workforce (a politically not appreciated move but must for an ailing organisation) , no to PPP jiyala employment (i-e no further employment unless its absolutely needed) . I don't know how can a defence minister (who himself is an industrialist in Gujrat) can come up with such a nonsense solution unless he has his own commission/kickback in mind. For heavens sake PIA is eating tax payers money... this country is literally gone to dogs now...