PLAAF - What is best fighter in service now and in future?

[Indus Pakistan]

Hello to my Chinese friends. I wonder if you can help me out with the following questions?

(i) What is the best combat aircraft in service with PLAAF frontline squadrons?

(ii) What are the future plans - as in next 5-10 years.

(iii) What plane does PLAAF have to take on Indian Su-30s?

(iv) Where do J-10 and J-11 fit into PLAAF combat profile?

(v) Which is better J-10 or J-11?

and finally how do you see the F-16 v J-10 v J11 v Su30.

I know any answers are liable to lose their objectivity with patriotic zeal but if we can limit as much as possible subjective replies. Indian poster's are more than welcome but try not turn this into PLAAF v IAF thread.

Thanks.

 

[ao333]

1) J-11B

2) J-20/J-10B

3) J-11B

4) Mid range, mid altitude multirole; Long range, high altitude air superiority

5) Incomparable due to class difference. Which is tastier: beef or grapes? J-10 is more cost effective in ground strikes and aerial interception; J-11B specializes in long range, altitude air superiority, hostile aerial space penetration.

J-11B vs J-10A; J-11B wins hands down

Su-30MKI vs J-11B; Same core design, contingent on the situation. I'd say MKI has the advantage

F-16 is the same as J-10. J-10A is better than F-16A, same with C and J-10B (if you're into Chinese rumor specs) equates to E

If you're going to throw up a VS thread; give your scenario, since different fighters are suited for different purposes. Assuming an aerial combat between notable modern fighters:

F-22/Pak FA/J-20

F-15/Eurofighter/Su-27/30/33/34/35 and its derivatives (MKI/11B/15)/Rafale

F-16/J-10/Gripen

Others (interceptor crafts such as Tejas, Jf-17, Mirage 2000, Mig-29)

Top beats down; Left beats right

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Thank you for your reply. Let me get to the real reason behind my sudden interest in PLAAF and Chinese Aircraft. My real interest is Pakistan Air Force. At present our tip of the spear is provided by Block 52 F-16s which is the only plane we have that could face Indian Su-30s.

How would all things considered equal PAF F-16s Block 52 do against Indian Su-30s?
And would buying J-10s instead of F-16s be better option against Indian Su-30s?

And I would prefer beef anytime to grapes .... !

 

[UKBengali]

What Pakistan needs is the J-10B with WS-10X tubofan generating more than 140KN of thrust, AESA radar and missiles such as PL-10 SRAAM and PL-21D LRAAM.

 

[ao333]

Thank you for your reply. Let me get to the real reason behind my sudden interest in PLAAF and Chinese Aircraft. My real interest is Pakistan Air Force. At present our tip of the spear is provided by Block 52 F-16s which is the only plane we have that could face Indian Su-30s.

How would all things considered equal PAF F-16s Block 52 do against Indian Su-30s?
And would buying J-10s instead of F-16s be better option against Indian Su-30s?

And I would prefer beef anytime to grapes .... !

Block 52s (C/D) are equivalent to the Chinese J-10A which will be owned by Su-27/30 derivatives such as the J-11B and Su-30MKI hands down.

Pakistan's stock of Block 52s and Jf-17s will be able to hunt Tejas down without a problem. It has no counter against the Su-30MKI, as the best China's got is J-11B which is a close equivalent.

F-16s will never be able to beat 15s, just as they won't beat Su-30s. The Russians have never sold to Pakistan and the Americans likely will not. The Chinese have nothing that can top the Su-30s and will not likely sell J-11Bs as that would just piss the Russians off even more, if the RD-93 resale isn't enough already.

Su-30 isn't Pakistan's only problem. The Raphale if upgraded as the French promised will be superior to the Su-30MKI, J-11B and J-10B. The only plane which will top it from the Chinese is J-20. But by that point, the Indians would have gotten Pak FA.

The best option is not to compete with India militarily, since it's a lost game. Focusing on the domestic economy and foreign relations is the only way to tackle regional bullies, like the way the Philippines is dealing with China.

 

[Akasa]

Block 52s (C/D) are equivalent to the Chinese J-10A which will be owned by Su-27/30 derivatives such as the J-11B and Su-30MKI hands down.

Pakistan's stock of Block 52s and Jf-17s will be able to hunt Tejas down without a problem. It has no counter against the Su-30MKI, as the best China's got is J-11B which is a close equivalent.

F-16s will never be able to beat 15s, just as they won't beat Su-30s. The Russians have never sold to Pakistan and the Americans likely will not. The Chinese have nothing that can top the Su-30s and will not likely sell J-11Bs as that would just piss the Russians off even more, if the RD-93 resale isn't enough already.

Su-30 isn't Pakistan's only problem. The Raphale if upgraded as the French promised will be superior to the Su-30MKI, J-11B and J-10B. The only plane which will top it from the Chinese is J-20. But by that point, the Indians would have gotten Pak FA.

The best option is not to compete with India militarily, since it's a lost game. Focus on the domestic economy and foreign relations is the only way to tackle regional bullies, like the way the Philippines are dealing with China.

Explain how the upgraded Rafales would be better than any Chinese aircraft, considering that the J-10B, J-11B, and J-15 include all of the Rafale's upgrades and also some that the Rafale doesn't have.

Also, a couple of things:
1. The J-10A defeated the J-11A, J-11B, and Su-27SK in all simulated dogfights, which says a lot about their relative maneuverabilities
2. f-16s did beat f-15s in simulated dogfights, and the new variants will almost definitely feature more powerful avionics and situational awareness than their earlier eagles

 

[Jade]

1) J-11B

2) J-20/J-10B

3) J-11B

4) Mid range, mid altitude multirole; Long range, high altitude air superiority

5) Incomparable due to class difference. Which is tastier: beef or grapes? J-10 is more cost effective in ground strikes and aerial interception; J-11B specializes in long range, altitude air superiority, hostile aerial space penetration.

J-11B vs J-10A; J-11B wins hands down

Su-30MKI vs J-11B; Same core design, contingent on the situation. I'd say MKI has the advantage

F-16 is the same as J-10. J-10A is better than F-16A, same with C and J-10B (if you're into Chinese rumor specs) equates to E

If you're going to throw up a VS thread; give your scenario, since different fighters are suited for different purposes. Assuming an aerial combat between notable modern fighters:

F-22/Pak FA/J-20

F-15/Eurofighter/Su-27/30/33/34/35 and its derivatives (MKI/11B/15)/Rafale

F-16/J-10/Gripen

Others (interceptor crafts such as Tejas, Jf-17, Mirage 2000, Mig-29)

Top beats down; Left beats right

Makes good sense

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Block 52s (C/D) are equivalent to the Chinese J-10A which will be owned by Su-27/30 derivatives such as the J-11B and Su-30MKI hands down.

Pakistan's stock of Block 52s and Jf-17s will be able to hunt Tejas down without a problem. It has no counter against the Su-30MKI, as the best China's got is J-11B which is a close equivalent.

F-16s will never be able to beat 15s, just as they won't beat Su-30s. The Russians have never sold to Pakistan and the Americans likely will not. The Chinese have nothing that can top the Su-30s and will not likely sell J-11Bs as that would just piss the Russians off even more, if the RD-93 resale isn't enough already.

Su-30 isn't Pakistan's only problem. The Raphale if upgraded as the French promised will be superior to the Su-30MKI, J-11B and J-10B. The only plane which will top it from the Chinese is J-20. But by that point, the Indians would have gotten Pak FA.

The best option is not to compete with India militarily, since it's a lost game. Focusing on the domestic economy and foreign relations is the only way to tackle regional bullies, like the way the Philippines is dealing with China.

Thanks .. your explanation appears to make sense. I had a feeling that Indian Su-30Mk1 was bad news for Pakistan. Not sure about the Rafale though. That said I guess Pakistan has to retire behind the nuclear shield and depend on first strike to calm the indians down.

Pakistan was never going to be able to compete with India militarily. India is 7 times more populous than us and with 1. 1 billion people, India is in the same league China.

J10 also appears to be based on the Isreali Lavi which itself was derived from F-16. In time I suspect Chinese technology will mature.

 

[S10]

What ao333 said is untrue. In PLAAF exercises involving J-10A and J-11A/B going up against each other, the J-10A has always come out on top. In one particular air-to-air mock combat, the kill ratio was 15:1 for J-10A against Su-30MK2. J-10A is by far the most potent air superiority fighter in current inventory. The only areas which it lags behind the Flankers are payload and range. These two platforms are not high-end/low-end setups, but rather filling in different roles. Currently the Flanker family is moving towards multi-role instead of air superiority, examplified by the development of J-15 and J-16.

Pakistan will be receiving J-10 soon. It will be the A version, but upgraded according to PAF requirements. "Indian Rafale" at the moment is a non-existent threat, since none has been delivered. In fact, the deal has not even been finalised yet due to political bickering in the government.

One more thing, J-10B is due to enter service later this year, having completed its trials. According to huzhigeng, the next upgrade is already in the works. Honestly, I am not too concerned about Rafale.

 

[ao333]

Lol, Chinese cyber warriors backed by blogs and imagination believe their single engine multirole Israeli rip off beats an air superiority flanker. The reason why long range high altitude air superiority exist is because they outclass multiroles and don't dog fight.

The next thing you know, made in China trash doesn't explode or poison someone then explode.

 

[S10]

Lol, Chinese cyber warriors backed by blogs and imagination believe their single engine multirole Israeli rip off beats an air superiority flanker. The reason why long range high altitude air superiority exist is because they outclass multiroles and don't dog fight.

The next thing you know, made in China trash doesn't explode or poison someone then explode.

Heh you pretending like you know what you're talking about when you're more clueless than a sack of rocks.

J-10 coming out on top of Flankers are well documented both in CCTV news regarding air force exercises as well as PLAAF's own publications. If close range dog fight do not occur, then care to explain why Americans kept their Top Gun program open? If long range combat was all there was to it, then we'd see Boeing 747 mounted with the biggest radar possible and carrying dozens of AAMs.

Do check yourself back into Fraser Valley mental health institution when you're done taking your meds.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Explain how the upgraded Rafales would be better than any Chinese aircraft, considering that the J-10B, J-11B, and J-15 include all of the Rafale's upgrades and also some that the Rafale doesn't have.

Also, a couple of things:
1. The J-10A defeated the J-11A, J-11B, and Su-27SK in all simulated dogfights, which says a lot about their relative maneuverabilities
2. f-16s did beat f-15s in simulated dogfights, and the new variants will almost definitely feature more powerful avionics and situational awareness than their earlier eagles

J-11B is not designed for Dogfights as it is a BVR Fighter. In a real world fight, J11B wont let J10B get close enough to dogfight as it will destroy J10B with a BVR missile so the dogfighting capability is a mute point.

 

[xuxu1457]

infact, on air combat, with the same generation aircrafts, just like pistol duel, the skilled pilot always win, from find enemy to wrangle only 10 seconds. in gold helmet exercise, the top ten include: the No.1 pilot with one J-11 killed 20+ J-11 and 17+ J-10 only lost 1; and 3 pilots of the top ten , with J-10 also killed 16+ J-11 and 20+ J10 in 42 times air war.

 

[jhungary]

dude, comparing J-10A/B with J-11A/B is like compare who can kill who when 1 armed with a automatic shotgun and the other guy armed with a rifle.

When you come close, automatic shotgun always win, but will the guy with an rifle let you get that close is another problem altogether.

But truthfully, if a guy with a rifle let a guy with a shotgun get that close, he failed already.

 

[Beast]

J-11B is not designed for Dogfights as it is a BVR Fighter. In a real world fight, J11B wont let J10B get close enough to dogfight as it will destroy J10B with a BVR missile so the dogfighting capability is a mute point.

Who told you flanker is not designed to dogfight? If that is the case , I choose J-8F for its high attitude capabilites and launch PL-12 at great height to maximize its range and abilities, isn't it better?