Picturing Pakistan's Past: The Beatles, Booze And Bikinis

[Secur]

YES they are STUPID anyone who creates hurdle in avialing education/ is STUPID rather dumbassss

One would ask , why ?

Why the feudals , dictators or extremists want the masses to be uneducated and ignorant ?

There's a very simple answer - the learned man's mind begins to questions thing , he begins to ask the reason behind things , he begins to ask " why is this thing like that ? " which is something the people forcing their ideologies on others do not like ! A " free thinking mind " is the worst obstacle in their way and detrimental to the fulfillment of their agendas ...

Let me tell you what happens in Madarsas , the head of the said institution is almost like God , revered and almost workshipped , A God's viceroys on earth - an infallible human being who cant be wrong ! That is what they teach those poor students in the beginning - to never question the interpretation or judgement of the Mullah/Maulvi/Mufti or suffer the God's wrath - a psychological fear since nothing instills more fear in humans than the unknown ... Whoever does it is either thrown out or branded an infidel with a death sentence ... The majority of the rest end up with an unconventional jacket or terrorize and kill people who disagree with their " chiefs" interpretation ...

In our society , people are taught not to interpret or understand religion by themselves , they are asked to leave it to the Mufti's and such , they are asked not to try to understand Quran and Hadith and that merely parroting or memorizing it will do the trick , they are told if they interpret the religion by themselves they will end up in hell which is what I call an insult to " human intelligence " ... So basically , the Mullah(s) interprets the religion - twists the meaning , interpretation in more than 99% of the cases to suit the agendas of a few ... The end result , the fearful masses follow that interpretation without asking " why " and end up on the wrong path ...Someone needs to answer this , Is Islam so complicated that a common man cant read and understand it ?

 

[Zarvan]

One would ask , why ?

Why the feudals , dictators or extremists want the masses to be uneducated and ignorant ?

There's a very simple answer - the learned man's mind begins to questions thing , he begins to ask the reason behind things , he begins to ask " why is this thing like that ? " which is something the people forcing their ideologies on others do not like ! A " free thinking mind " is the worst obstacle in their way and detrimental to the fulfillment of their agendas ...

Let me tell you what happens in Madarsas , the head of the said institution is almost like God , revered and almost workshipped , A God's viceroys on earth - an infallible human being who cant be wrong ! That is what they teach those poor students in the beginning - to never question the interpretation or judgement of the Mullah/Maulvi/Mufti or suffer the God's wrath - a psychological fear since nothing instills more fear in humans than the unknown ... Whoever does it is either thrown out or branded an infidel with a death sentence ... The majority of the rest end up with an unconventional jacket or terrorize and kill people who disagree with their " chiefs" interpretation ...

In our society , people are taught not to interpret religion by themselves , they are asked to leave it to the Mufti's and such , they are told if they interpret the religion by themselves they will end up in hell which is what I call an insult to " human intelligence " ... So basically , the Mullah interprets the religion - twists the meaning , interpretation in more than 99% of the cases to suit the agendas of a few ... The end result , the fear masses follow that interpretation without asking " why " ending up on the wrong path ... Is Islam so complicated that a common man cant read and understand it ?

Sir first of Madrassa students respect their teaches because they teach them Islam they teach them world of ALLAH and his PROPHET SAW and life of his great Companions and also teach them manners which liberals jerks have lost completely and HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW have given a lot of importance to Ulemas in Islam and also in Quran importance is given to those who learn Islam and teach it to others in short Ulemas so role of Ulemas is of utmost importance when it comes to Islamic Society but liberals have found a way to abuse Islam they start abusing Ulemas and make fun of those things which are signs of Islam and Muslims

 

[SHAMK9]

One would ask , why ?

Why the feudals , dictators or extremists want the masses to be uneducated and ignorant ?

There's a very simple answer - the learned man's mind begins to questions thing , he begins to ask the reason behind things , he begins to ask " why is this thing like that ? " which is something the people forcing their ideologies on others do not like ! A " free thinking mind " is the worst obstacle in their way and detrimental to the fulfillment of their agendas ...

Let me tell you what happens in Madarsas , the head of the said institution is almost like God , revered and almost workshipped , A God's viceroys on earth - an infallible human being who cant be wrong ! That is what they teach those poor students in the beginning - to never question the interpretation or judgement of the Mullah/Maulvi/Mufti or suffer the God's wrath - a psychological fear since nothing instills more fear in humans than the unknown ... Whoever does it is either thrown out or branded an infidel with a death sentence ... The majority of the rest end up with an unconventional jacket or terrorize and kill people who disagree with their " chiefs" interpretation ...

In our society , people are taught not to interpret or understand religion by themselves , they are asked to leave it to the Mufti's and such , they are told if they interpret the religion by themselves they will end up in hell which is what I call an insult to " human intelligence " ... So basically , the Mullah interprets the religion - twists the meaning , interpretation in more than 99% of the cases to suit the agendas of a few ... The end result , the fearful masses follow that interpretation without asking " why " ending up on the wrong path ...Someone needs to answer this , Is Islam so complicated that a common man cant read and understand it ?

You are wasting your time mate, let him/her do whatever he/she pleases.

 

[Secur]

Sir first of Madrassa students respect their teaches because they teach them Islam they teach them world of ALLAH and his PROPHET SAW and life of his great Companions and also teach them manners which liberals jerks have lost completely

Respect and disagreement are different things ... I respect my parents , does that mean that we cant have a difference of opinion ? Why should I blindly follow them or in this case the Mullah's interpretation of Islam ? Why are they beaten for small mistakes in there ? Why the overwhelming majority of Madarsa students do not question their teachers ? ... I have seen how they function in Karachi , do not lie to me !

Second , you see the present state of Pakistan where daily bomb blasts are happening , society is radicalized and people are terrified ... All due to Mullahs/Maulvi/Muftis chanting death to anyone who opposes them and brainwashing young kids - killing people left and right whom they do not even know ... Would you still say that Ulemas are doing a good job becoming the " God's viceroy " on earth ? If this role of Ulemas is of this utmost importance and they cant be wrong in any way whatsoever then I do not see much hope for extremists ...

You are wasting your time mate, let him/her do whatever he/she pleases.

Bro , this particular post of mine wasn't for him , I was just posting my response to somebody's else posts giving the information of the " reality on ground " ...

 

[Solomon2]

They will fail and fail miserably because sooner or later people will take them out because people are already fed up of secular morons and they will take out the system and Tunisia despite not much political chaos is not making much progress

Translated: people whose agenda you support will murder elected officials. And you wonder why Pakistan itself suffers from carnage?

 

[Zarvan]

Respect and disagreement are different thing ... I respect my parents , does that mean that we cant have a difference of opinion ? Why should I blindly follow them or in this case the Mullah's interpretation of Islam ? Why are they beaten for small mistakes in there ? Why the overwhelming majority of Madarsa students do not question their teachers ? ... I have seen how they function in Karachi , do not lie to me !

Second , you see the present state of Pakistan where daily bomb blasts are happening , society is radicalized and people are terrified ... Would you still say that Ulemas are doing a good job becoming the " God's viceroy " on earth ? If this role of Ulemas is of utmost importance then I do not see much hope for extremists ...




Bro , this particular posts of mine wasn't for him , I was just posting my response to somebody's else posts ...

Sir they question things and they also disagree stop writing your bias views here which have no base at all Sir and those who are doing bomb Blasts don't listen to Ulemas Mr secondly most of them have never been to Madrassas in fact many don't even know how to read and right they are the waris and they are given huge status by HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW no liberal traitor can take that away from them

 

[Secur]

Sir they question things and they also disagree stop writing your bias views here which have no base at all Sir and those who are doing bomb Blasts don't listen to Ulemas

Sure they do ! Do you think I will take your word over what I have heard and seen ? God has created me in his own image and granted me the curiosity , critical thinking skills and the ability to question things ... The sad thing about " liberal traitor " is they aren't killing or terrorizing people who dont agree with them , that they leave for extremists ...

Actually almost all of TTP and Taliban leaders are Madarsa students , the word Taliban itself means " students " ... Check the hot videos they release after carrying out some high level bombing or suicide attack in which the suicide bomber tells his last wishes and Islamic songs are played in the background ... Go fool someone else , not us ... Isn't the TTP all named or call himself Maulvi / Mufti this or that ? ... Taliban blow themselves up in Afghan Bazaar killing dozens of their countrymen and merely a single coalition soldier ... What should I call it ? ...

 

[Zarvan]

Sure they do ! Do you think I will take your word over what I have heard and seen ? God has created me in his own image and granted me the curiosity , critical thinking skills and the ability to question things ... The sad thing about " liberal traitor " is they aren't killing or terrorizing people who dont agree with them , that they leave for extremists ...

Actually almost all of TTP and Taliban leaders are Madarsa students , the word Taliban itself means " students " ... Go fool someone else , not us ... Isn't the TTP all named or call himself Maulvi / Mufti this or that ? ... Taliban blow themselves up in Afghan Bazaar killing dozens of their countrymen and merely a single coalition soldier ... What should I call it ? ... Mullah Omer declared himself as " Commander of the Faithful " when Afghanistan fell to his faction and ironically that man had never ever attended any institution ...

Liberal traitors killed Muslims in Tribal areas liberal traitors support those who kill Muslims in the world liberal traitors are the scum of the world and will sell their ###### for Dollars and defending Afghanistan from USSR was obligation on Muslims but they shouldn't have taken the help of USA that point I have made clear lot time ago

Sure they do ! Do you think I will take your word over what I have heard and seen ? God has created me in his own image and granted me the curiosity , critical thinking skills and the ability to question things ... The sad thing about " liberal traitor " is they aren't killing or terrorizing people who dont agree with them , that they leave for extremists ...

Actually almost all of TTP and Taliban leaders are Madarsa students , the word Taliban itself means " students " ... Check the hot videos they release after carrying out some high level bombing or suicide attack in which the suicide bomber tells his last wishes and Islamic songs are played in the background ... Go fool someone else , not us ... Isn't the TTP all named or call himself Maulvi / Mufti this or that ? ... Taliban blow themselves up in Afghan Bazaar killing dozens of their countrymen and merely a single coalition soldier ... What should I call it ? ...

Most TTP are not from Madrassas in fact few of them never have entered A Madrassa and some ran in their first year

 

[Secur]

Liberal traitors killed Muslims in Tribal areas liberal traitors

Yes , the sentence you have been repeating from the first post , avoiding questions about the extremists and merely parroting the same stuff again and again , do continue ...

 

[ice_man]

For an example of a Muslim country that took a trip in a different direction than Pakistan - though doubtless closer to the one Jinnah intended - Michael Totten's recent trip to and account of Tunisia might be of interest:

“No other Arab country has tried the same policy we tried—to free ourselves from the religious legacy and make religion merely a cultural reference rather than a way of ruling the country”

link

well tunisia is just a lost nation. if Islamic law is implemented CORRECTLY not in the way of the taliban everything will be ideal.

for example laws of islam such as love thy neghibour more than you love your brother. protect and safegaurd other men's posessions when you are made guardian over it. hold your leaders accountable. respect women. everyone is made equal regardless of color or caste.


such things are implemented within the USA today hence they are a leading super power. sadly the last muslim nation to follow such rules was ottoman and that to till probably 1600s only!

 

[Awesome]

Zarvan the issue here is, you say you're for Islam - you say that Taliban do things that are against Islam - then why is there no aggressive fight from you against Taliban? Why do you reserve your aggression only for the liberals?

 

[Pfpilot]

You're not even questioning why you've been taught to emphasize force?

Nonsense. I'm not a Muslim. To me Islam is, in context, what Muslims do. So I don't really HAVE to read commentaries and the Koran. Besides, every Muslim theologian will agree with me that my opinions about what Islam is and how Muslims should practice Islam have absolutely no weight at all no matter how much I learn from the Koran and hadiths as long as I remain a non-Muslim.

Bottom line: right now your society tolerates those who throw acid and shoot girls. It doesn't protect those who work to keep them free from polio. They say they are implementing Islam by force. If you dispute that, work to change it; otherwise, by your continued acquiescence you empower such crimes. And if you don't want to shoot and throw acid at girls nor seek an alternative vision for Islamic rule then you're really resisting implementing 100% Islam by force entirely and need to seek another course.

Time to give Parasha and Jinnah further consideration, isn't it? And maybe ask your parents some questions, too. They didn't have the advantage of the internet like you do.

The inherent hypocrisy of extremism results in vague restrictions on the lengths to which "Muslims" can go to in order to enforce "Islam". I believe it is of great importance to differentiate their Islam from the one that I think any common man will follow. To most of us, it is our personal relationship with a higher being and it should be of no consequence when issues that have no relation to religion are discussed. While I say this, I fully understand if the vocal and extremist portion shape your opinion of Islam; it's only natural when some people, claiming to represent a billion Muslims insist that all of us want nothing more than to be servants of extremism.

It is interesting that there are Muslims who proclaim that ours is a religion of peace, then enforce it through violence. If there is one defense; it is that even the most evil murders in history must justify their crimes in their mind or they would be unable to carry them out. Similarly, extremism crushes its opposition in a bid to save those poor liberal souls from themselves. "Liberal" being the sweeping word to generalize scores of people that have merely developed critical thinking skills. They want to enforce not only an archaic understanding of Islam, but one that has many loopholes. Polio workers are killed; girls' schools leveled and non Muslims ridiculed on the basis of some sort of enlightened understanding of Islam. What these people cannot explain is: why the majority of those who die in this cause are actually Muslims; why a majority of their weapons are of Soviet and American lineage (nations that crushed or are perceived to crush Muslim thought) and why their leaders don't step forward and become martyrs for their cause (instead of hiding in assorted hideouts).

In the end, it is simply easier to kill underprivileged "Muslim Brothers and Sisters" than to test out their theories in a civilized manner. No man or woman would ever choose forfeiting freedoms, unless forced to do so. There in lies the problem of extremism: it wants to promote what it perceives to be a peaceful Caliphate of sorts, but is built on the violent destruction of freedom, in thought, expression and action. What is overlooked is, if an ideology can be enforced only with violence, then it isn't desired by the people, nor correct in its interpretation of society as a whole and is as such outdated and wrong.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Many Pakistani-Americans say Pakistan needs to quit being ally of the USA's war in Afghanistan. They don't see the hollowness of their argument.

They (American Pakistanis) have dedicated your whole life and your future generations (most American Pakistanis do, some may be an exception) to the same fing "master".

If any of these guys try to say 'no' to your master once and they will throw his/her bleeping @rse in jail in no time.

Refuse to pay $1 owed to the federal taxes and they will toast you in jail.

And then they all come on this board and f@rt against Pakistan being an ally of the same country who happens to be the most powerful in the world.

This is hight of $tupidity and arrogance if not downright hight of hypocrisy.


Sadly truly sad.

 

[FaujHistorian]

well tunisia is just a lost nation. if Islamic law is implemented CORRECTLY not in the way of the taliban everything will be ideal.

for example laws of islam such as love thy neghibour more than you love your brother. protect and safegaurd other men's posessions when you are made guardian over it. hold your leaders accountable. respect women. everyone is made equal regardless of color or caste.


such things are implemented within the USA today hence they are a leading super power. sadly the last muslim nation to follow such rules was ottoman and that to till probably 1600s only!

Oh bhai sahib,

Those things are already part of the code in many Western countries including USA.

In fact US constitution guarantees much more than what you are suggesting. In reality Islamic teachings fail when it comes to treating non-Muslims and other minorities as equals and thus free from discrimination/persecution by individual vigilantes and even by the state.

Please study it first before commenting on things you may not understand fully.

Please do not confuse between

1- Laws and legislation
2. Moral code
3. Habits and prevailing practices of people in an area


They all impact each other, but they should not be confused between each other.


When you say "love thy neghibour more than you love your brother."

This is moral code. You cannot make law or put a Mullah or Ayatullah in charge of making sure that you do love your neighbor.

This cannot be a law. Get it?

However you can perhaps a law that says if you steal your neighbor's property (or anyone's property), your @rse will be thrown in jail for x number of days.


So I urge you and other Pakistanis. do not be get so romantic about things 1400+ years ago that you become totally ignorant about things in 2012.

Thank you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.......You say we were allies with the superpower in 60s and hence the prosperity. We still are the biggest ally of the superpower but there is no prosperity at all. ......

this is a very good question.

If for a moment we bring our emotions down and look at the globe, see which countries are close allies of USA, and then see if they are prospering or not.

Please remember that prosperity is a complex mix of government policies local and international, corporations, and individual entrepreneurs etc.

Honesty of leadership also counts. There is no doubt.

However all these factors should be considered instead of focusing only on the top leader.


During Prez Ayub's time Pakistan prospered during close cooperation with USA

During Prez Zia's time, the prosperity levels did not go as high as during Prez Ayub's time.

The question is why?


The answer comes from the government policies during Prez Ayub, PM ZA Bhutto, and from Prez Zia.

The answer also comes from the role of Pakistani corporations, small businesses and entrepreneurs, and expat Pakistanis, during the three eras.


Study this and you will find your answers.


Thank you

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year