Picturing Pakistan's Past: The Beatles, Booze And Bikinis

[Secur]

However you have already given up on humanity it seems by your various posts where you continuously criticize everything without offering any solutions. I fear my friend you may be suicidal.

My friend , what solution can be offered for people who aren't even ready to acknowledge that there is a problem in the first place ? ... A psychological dilemma !

 

[airmarshal]

Common Air Marshal Sahib.

This line "we do not understand Islam" is now getting too tiring. If 1+ billion Muslims cannot produce one person who truly understands Islam, then there is no need to even discuss this thingy.


Tell us who understands Islam?

Who?

Ayatullahs of Iran? Yeah Rigth!

Mullahs of Saudi? You betcha.

This is just a circular argument. We don't understand this or we don't understand that.

what they say _--- Na no mund tail ho ga, Na Radha naachay gi

Catch 22, dare I say.


Thank you

Dont blame your shortcomings on others. Learn about Islam yourself. I m not here to judge who is or who isn't a better Muslim but as individual we have every reason to study and understand Islam.

If you are a doctor, you cant be one without learning medicine. Like that, you cant me Muslim because of accident of birth but by learning about it.

The perversion in Islam, both imported and self created is because majority of Muslims are jahil. We are not relevant in today's world order because we lack the education to make our economies prosperous.

We are equally irrelevant from the faith's perspective because we lack the education in faith as well.

Try to understand what I m saying.

 

[Emmie]

Zia, I wish you were alive! Can't say bad about a dead person.

I think there used to be a thread like this one before, prolly started by aeronaut.

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan 60s and now

June 12th, 2009 | 1 Comment


Masood Sharif Khan Khattak

Way back in the 1960s Pakistan was truly on the move. The early Ayub years gave us the “Green Revolution” because of the construction and commissioning of dams such as Mangla and Tarbela. Barrages were erected all the way down to the Guddu near Hyderabad. These dams and barrages gave birth to an efficient network of canals and small distributaries which in the sixties not only made Pakistan self-sufficient but surplus in agricultural products.

In the 60s the building that we all know as Habib Bank Plaza in Karachi was the tallest building all the way from the Middle East down to Singapore. In the 60s almost every army, navy and air force in the Middle East was being manned by Pakistani officers and men. We literally raised those armed forces. Many airlines that operate from the Gulf have actually been trained, organised and manned by PIA staff when they initially started operations. Today they are amongst the best in the world while PIA is in a total mess.

In 1972 it was Pakistan that created history and paved the way for the world to move in the direction that it actually has moved by being instrumental in bringing about President Richard Nixon’s visit to Beijing (then Peking). That visit helped both China and USA equally and opened the world to be shaped as it is today. Not long after that, in 1979, if Pakistan had not taken on the USSR on its own initially, along with the Afghan Mujahideen, the world today would have been very different. One can go on recounting many more aspects of Pakistan to show what a potently viable country it should have been today with an economy strong enough to stand it in good stead for exercising an independent foreign policy as well as in bringing about an environment in which the country would have had a content population which would, in turn, have excluded space to all sorts of disruptions. What, then, went wrong and why do people now talk in terms of whether Pakistan will be able to outlast its present crisis? Pakistan indeed lost its way in the years that followed the incidents I have quoted; military coups, the judicial murder of an elected prime minister, frequent derailing of the political process, an erratic foreign policy pursued by a bunch of minds that were driven by reasons other than prudent statecraft, importing of self-seeking bankers and making them prime ministers, denying of provincial autonomy to the federating units, allowing ethnic and other kinds of militancy to grow, letting fiefdoms be created right under the nose of the state, making talent become subservient to cronyism, treating education as if it was insignificant and so much more is all responsible for the dire straits we find ourselves in after having made a great start in the early years of our freedom. It is said that South Korea laid its foundations for progress and prosperity on Pakistan’s First Five Year Plan. Pakistan never made a second five-year plan and in fact the First Five Year Plan was followed by ad hocism. Who knows, had Pakistan followed its own First Five Year Plan like South Korea did, in the subsequent years Pakistan too may well have been one of the biggest economies of the world today. (South Korea is now the fourth-biggest of Asia and the world’s15th.) Most Pakistanis are known to have a strong faith in the country’s ability to bounce back from the wilderness.


Pakistan is not a country that can be written off because a handful of insurgents have taken the state on frontally and because the state has not responded as responsibly as it ought to have ever since the crisis was evolving. Reacting to situations when crises explode in the face cannot be the best of situations for any state. The present crisis should never have got to where it now stands. Now that it has and now that it has to be handled, let all Pakistanis take strength form the fact that this great country needs to be put back on the track from which it got derailed in the 60s.

We Pakistanis have to once again regain our lost glory and win back our rightful, respectable and dignified place in the comity of nations. We can and must do it. The writer is former director general of the Intelligence Bureau and former vice president of the PPP Parliamentarians. Email: masoodsharifkhattak@gmail.

Pakistan 60s and now | Pak Tea House

 

[Sedqal]

before me:




my time:

 

[FaujHistorian]

Pakistan 60s and now

June 12th, 2009 | 1 Comment


Masood Sharif Khan Khattak

Way back in the 1960s Pakistan was truly on the move. The early Ayub years gave us the “Green Revolution” because of the construction and commissioning of dams such as Mangla and Tarbela. Barrages were erected all the way down to the Guddu near Hyderabad. These dams and barrages gave birth to an efficient network of canals and small distributaries which in the sixties not only made Pakistan self-sufficient but surplus in agricultural products.

In the 60s the building that we all know as Habib Bank Plaza in Karachi was the tallest building all the way from the Middle East down to Singapore. In the 60s almost every army, navy and air force in the Middle East was being manned by Pakistani officers and men. We literally raised those armed forces. Many airlines that operate from the Gulf have actually been trained, organised and manned by PIA staff when they initially started operations. Today they are amongst the best in the world while PIA is in a total mess........

We Pakistanis have to once again regain our lost glory and win back our rightful, respectable and dignified place in the comity of nations. We can and must do it. The writer is former director general of the Intelligence Bureau and former vice president of the PPP Parliamentarians. Email: masoodsharifkhattak@gmail.

Pakistan 60s and now | Pak Tea House

such articles present the situation as if Pakistan somehow did all by itself.


Oh Bhai logo,

In the 60s we were faithful ally of the worlds' number 1 power.
In the 60s we were faithfully helping the worlds' number 1 power to bring down its arch enemy aka Commie Russia
In the 60s we provided one of the most powerful air-bases to the worlds' number 1 power.
In the 60s our army and our bureaucracy was willing to go to any length to defend the interests of worlds' number 1 power.
In the 60s our ships and our airline was willing to safely carry goods and personal of the world's number 1 power





Then for many reasons (complex and beyond this post's scope),
-- We forgot that we must remain in the good books of the world's number 1 power,

--- Then we forgot that we must continue to behave like South Korea, Japan, Germany, UK etc. and continue to support the world's number 1 power

-- then we forgot that our airline PIA must continue to safely carry goods and people for the world's number 1 power.
-- then we forgot that as a country we must not attack and threaten people (civilian and army) carrying passports of from the number 1 power in the world.
then we forgot that as a country we cannot allow our land to be used as a launching pad for killing sons and daughter and soldiers of the number 1 power in the world.


So guess what,

the world's number 1 power took its business to Qatar and UAE and Bahrain and India.
Then the airlines of Qatar and UAE became number 1 in the region
Then our airline went to the dogs
our economy is in tatters
our military is suffering from lack of funds and equipment

Our army got kicked out from all the Middle eastern countries.



And now as bhooka nanaga quom, we are killing ourselves, and blaming each other, and looting each other, and fighting like rabid dogs, suicide bombing our own ministers and our own governors.


And then someone goes back to the 60s and says "hai, kiya din thay" "kesa maza tha", "kaisi aiash thee".
without ever accepting the very foundation of that maza and aiash.

And the funny and sad at the same times is that our Pakistani brothers sitting in America, Canada, and UK are the biggest anti-progress and anti-Pakistan and anti-America


And these vermin continue shouting "nukie bumb maar dain gay", rocket phaink day ga Amreeka per.

Oh bhai, you live in America, breed in America, and still pushing Pakistan to go to war with America.

Insane. Just insane.


So America kicked Talibani butt,
----- Are Taliban more important to us than prosperity in Pakistan?
------ Have you asked a Afghanistani Talibani that he loves Pakistan more than anything else?


So America kicked Palestini butt,
----- Are Palestinian more important to us than prosperity in Pakistan?
------ Have you asked a Palistinian that he loves Pakistan more than anything else?


So America wants to kick Irani butt,
----- Are Iranian more important to us than prosperity in Pakistan?
------ Have you asked an Iranian that he loves Pakistan more than anything else?



If the answer to these questions is no. Then it is a one-sided affair with Islamism that is taking our beautiful country down the toilet.

And we just sit around writing half-@rsed stories about 60s. What's the point if Nadeem Pirachas of 60s were shouting and screaming to stop working with America.

So Islamism is trrible for Pakistan, but so was the socialism and communism espoused by the lefties like NFP. And this poor chap NFP doesn't want to accept that what Talibanis want to do to world's number 1 power, well NFP wanted to do the same. they are all chuttay buttay of the same plate.


Sadly!


Nothing against any poster on this forum. Just want to make sure we truly understand the core of prosperity and tolerance of 60's and why we lost it now,

Even now look at Chinese and Chinese-Americans. Are they going raving mad against the number 1 power of the world?

Even now look at Indians and Indians-Americans. Are they going raving mad against the number 1 power of the world?


Even now look at Koreans and Korean-Americans. Are they going raving mad against the number 1 power of the world?

Even now look at Qatari and Qatari-Americans. Are they going raving mad against the number 1 power of the world?

Certainly not!


so all these countries are prospering.

While we are copying axis of evil now-dead Qaddafi, soon to be kicked out Nejat, and North Koran Kim-kim

And so our country is cesspool of poverty and disease.


Hope you all understand this.

 

[Meengla]

Why the hell wasn't I born pre '70s !

On a serious note : To my palate thats pretty extreme too ! If modernity or moderation is measured by 'minimalist' clothing & 'booze' them I'm afraid that wasn't an idyllic setting for me either !

No, my friend. Liberalism, tolerance, and progress etc certainly don't mean scantily dressed women--there are more than a few liberals and feminists who would agree with me on this.

HOWEVER.. we need balance in a society. By that I mean a society should adhere to the ethos of its majority but shouldn't interfere with those in the minority who may have different ideas about how to live their lives. Pakistan lost that with Zia's so-called 'Islamization' -- before that Pakistan did have the right balance. A tiny part of the society did things differently, mostly in privacy and they were tolerated. High end hotels served booze by the pool. Nightclubs had jazz and booze etc. In private schools skirts were not uncommon. They may have been ways of the more privileged ones but those privileged ones never stopped anyone from prayers, or growing beards etc.

Pakistan remained a very Islamic country well into the late 70's. People, including kids like me, cheered the Bholu brothers who wrestled against the Japanese wrestler Inoki because, somehow, it was Islam vs non-Islam. Sports were, even then, heavily Islamic in our eyes. We saw and cheered the Islamic Summit in Lahore and were thrilled by the sight of Qaddafi being kissed by ZAB. We sang 'Ham Taba Abad..'

BUT we also let others live as they wanted to. The prejudice against Christians was there. Against Hindus too. We played hockey against Christian teams and thought of it Islam vs other. But we didn't go and kill them. We felt superior to them. We were repeatedly told 'Pakistan is the fortress of Islam' perhaps even in our text books.

In short, there was lot of tolerance of 'the other'. But Zia came and he started to turn a South Asian Sufi society to Wahabbi one. Zia started promoting Arabic. Zia even banned Urdu Feature Films from PTV because he called the movies 'Fahash'. There were concerted effort by Zia to promote larger attendance in mosques. Strict dress code introduced. Textbooks changed. Even Jinnah's famous August 11, 1947 declaration for minority rights was changed.

So, no, exposing body doesn't mean being liberal. But tolerating 'the other' who are in a minority, who may want to live their lives the way they want to in their privacy means tolerance. Pakistan lost it in the Decade of Darkness from 1977-1988.

 

[Meengla]

Oh, the violent crimes then were nothing considering Pakistan had from 70-90 million people in the 70's. I remember a headline in Jang newspaper: A cobbler (show repairman) killed someone or got killed by someone because of 'Do Anna' price difference (you know, we had those Do Anna, Char Anna kind of currency then!). The weapon was a dagger. And that made it to a big news item, perhaps because of the paltry sum involved, but in a huge city like Karachi.

The drive to worship the military was obvious. In 1978 we teen-agers went to a scout Jamboree or Kamporee (don't remember) which involved touring several places in northern Pakistan. Our drill master's favorite song was in praise of the military and we sang along to cheer the military dictator Zia who had ZAB in jail for a murder case.

The first time I heard the word 'dictatorship' was in 1979 when our private school's mid-skirt wearing principal and our English teacher came to the class and talked about various systems, with a clear allusion to Zia's dictatorship.

Of course this discussion cannot be complete without recounting blank spaces in the daily news papers which the Zia administration caused by the so-called midnight knocks at the newspaper doors. The name 'Bhutto' was systematically expunged for a while. Almost every night we would see 'Qartas e Abeez' (the White Papers) where some sings of ZAB were fed to the public.

The brutality introduced in everyday life has an endearing effect. Criminals--which included political workers, lawyers, writers, poets--were publically hanged or flogged and it was encouraged to watch the treatment. In a playfield in Nazimabad I saw a huge crowd watching flogging or hanging as my cab/rickshaw rode by--I chose to not look at the spectacle, because even my teens had enough sense. Imagine what would this do to youngsters?

 

[American Pakistani]

And the funny and sad at the same times is that our Pakistani brothers sitting in America, Canada, and UK are the biggest anti-progress and anti-Pakistan and anti-America


And these vermin continue shouting "nukie bumb maar dain gay", rocket phaink day ga Amreeka per.

Oh bhai, you live in America, breed in America, and still pushing Pakistan to go to war with America.

Insane. Just insane.

I posted an article on how Pakistan was performing well in 60's, where on earth did you get the impression that i hate US or want Pakistan to go at war with US?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Is this dumb a troll...anyone?

I posted an article on how Pakistan was performing well in 60's, where on earth did you get the impression that i hate US or want Pakistan to go at war with US?

I wonder how any one like you could get "Think Tank" title.

Don't take it the wrong way mate.

Thanks for posting the article.

I was talking in general the attitudes among expat Paks and not YOU in particular.

 

[American Pakistani]

Don't take it the wrong way mate.

Thanks for posting the article.

I was talking in general the attitudes among expat Paks and not YOU in particular.

Ok Sir! Thanks for clearing.

 

[airmarshal]

Don't take it the wrong way mate.

Thanks for posting the article.

I was talking in general the attitudes among expat Paks and not YOU in particular.

Which expat Pakistani ask Pakistan to go to war with US? Thats the most shameful allegation I have come across, among other things said about us.

Pakistan needs to get out of this war. Thats my point of view. If we say 'no' to our master, it does not mean we are going to war with it.

See the extremity of your lame argument. You say we were allies with the superpower in 60s and hence the prosperity. We still are the biggest ally of the superpower but there is no prosperity at all.

Have you thought about whats the difference between the two decades we are talking about here. The real difference is the character of the leader and the people. Ayub Khan was well respected leader within Pakistan and outside it. He was not only well received in US (I dont think you have seen his reception in US) but anywhere he went.

This only happens when a leader brings dignity to the nation. And only a dignified leader can bring prosperity and dignity. One who is not morally and financially corrupt. Pakistan then was less resourceful than it is today. But its not a respected country anymore.

Compare 60s from this perspective to now. The most incompetent, financially corrupt person is our president. If Ayub was dictator, then isn't a dictator with character better than an elected leader without character. Our elected leader character is typical of our nation's character.

So you sitting in Pakistan must better realise that in the next election, you must vote those who represent you and the nation in the dignified, respectable manner that you crave for.

By saying no to the worldly god that your leaders believe and worship, the reform of character of our nation can begin.

 

[Zarvan]

Nah , those are fine gentlemen who do not even know who they are killing - capital punishment for everything ... The only culprit is Musharraf here for trying to extend the writ of Govt of Pakistan to tribal areas



Tribals have been killing each other for centuries and enslaving women in the name of some ancient " code of honor " ... Well before even the creation of Pakistan ! ... I expect them to atleast show mercy to their brethren belonging to different tribes of the same area whom they were killing then and whom they are killing now ... Who kills the tribals in the FATA besides drones ? Who are killed when a suicide bomber goes off in a bazaar in North Waziristan ? Anything about that ?

Musharraf was the biggest jerk he killed his own people on his master American orders and that is why liberals love him liberals are slaves of USA and if USA says something bad about their family the feel proud because they have lost their minds and and are too busy in eat shi# of their master USA and support all those forces of kufr who kill Muslims

What about taliban? they have killed many more pakistanis and they claim to be the leaders of islam, Musharaf is not a liberal btw.

Musharraf was the liberal and a jerk just like all the other liberals on the face of the earth scum of and ***** of nations are knows liberals to obsess drinking ***** and bashing Islam born slaves of USA and all the kufr forces

 

[Secur]

^ Am I talking to a real human or an autobot ?

 

[SHAMK9]

Musharraf was the liberal and a jerk just like all the other liberals on the face of the earth scum of and ***** of nations are knows liberals to obsess drinking ***** and bashing Islam born slaves of USA and all the kufr forces

what are you smoking? Musharaf and liberal? he never bashed islam. Man o man, dont know who tells you these things but i hope you recover soon.