Picturing Pakistan's Past: The Beatles, Booze And Bikinis

[SHAMK9]

Your liberals attacked tribals people on American orders one of the biggest liberal jerks Musharraf attacked his own people on American orders made whole Pakistan their slave killed their children and women and now expect them to show mercy to you WOW first kill them destroy everything they have than expect humanity from them who pathetic of liberal jerks

What about taliban? they have killed many more pakistanis and they claim to be the leaders of islam, Musharaf is not a liberal btw.

 

[KingMamba]

No, Pakistan WAS 'moderate' till about the late 70's. Islam was still a dominant part of everyone's life then but there were pockets more liberal social scenes which now don't exist.

I am a witness to the bikinis on Karachi beaches, of teachers wearing mid-skirts, of hotels serving beers to guests at swimming pools, of seemingly endless arrivals of foreign leaders and grand receptions for them on the streets.

The social scene was relaxed--much more than what happened by 1988 (Zia's death)--but there were still Shia-Sunni riots, the national politics was far too ethnic than now, the Deobandi and Brelvies at each others throat. Even in those relaxed days the poverty was more obvious; one of the common phrases was: 'There must be a God because otherwise Pakistan can't exist'.

Pakistan HAD swung to an extreme by 1988 but since then there is a reversal, however slow, but there is. It is a different matter that, due to WOT, Pakistan is facing tremendous challenges. Once peace is restored you will see!

My grandmother is always talking about the "old" times when she reminisces. She pretty much describes it just as you wrote it. Although I am figure Lahore was a bit more conservative, even back then as compared to Karachi.

Your liberals attacked tribals people on American orders one of the biggest liberal jerks Musharraf attacked his own people on American orders made whole Pakistan their slave killed their children and women and now expect them to show mercy to you WOW first kill them destroy everything they have than expect humanity from them who pathetic of liberal jerks

Are you blind??? How many times does the Taliban have to openly take credit for attacks before you will accept they are the ones who are killing everyone?? Musharaff a liberal?? Stop making a fool out of yourself.

 

[airmarshal]

Can you tell what the F**K is a Liberal fascists??
Whole term sound oxymoronic.

Can you just f**k off and stay out of topic if you nothing positive to contribute to the debate?

 

[FaujHistorian]

George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam Vol.No.8, 1936.

“I believe if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring much needed peace and happiness.
I have studied him - the man and in my opinion is far from being an anti–Christ. He must be called the Savior of Humanity.
I have prophesied about the faith of Mohammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”

As I mentioned earlier, these are hypothetical scenarios. No disrespect intended for GB Shaw or other thinkers and posters.


Many of such analysts whitewash and forget the character of Mohammad pbuh BEFORE Islam (his first 40 years) and even with such an absolutely good character, the level of difficulty faced by Him pbuh AFTER he proclaimed Islam.

You all think, a prophet comes and waves a wand and everything goes green and straight. It doesn't.


You ought to look at the BIG picture and overall picture. If we just take a snippet of His life towards the end, everything will look easy.

But it wasn't.


In today's world, if he comes as a messenger and starts his work in America or Canada, he may survive. I said "may" survive. Because even in America, Mormans faced HUGE hardships because they challenged the existing thoughts within Christianity.

Coming to Pakistan, Middle East etc. This is where my earlier post referenced to and unfortunately you didn't understand.

In conservative societies like ours, any new messenger will be suicide-bombed the day he opens his mouth against the zulm and cruelty in our society going on in the name of Islam.

So as I said,

Do not color your eye-glasses with green reverence, being a messenger is not easy. If Jesus pbuh was crucified so long ago, you think Talib-baboons and Tali-chimps will forgive someone in Pakistan. Anyone who challenges their version of Islam?

Huh?

wake up and smell the coffee please.


Or may be you and Zarvan are hoping for another Ben-Ladeen, zawahiri, or Mullah Omer as the premier models for this prophethood in our society.

who knows!

 

[Azazel]

Can you just f**k off and stay out of topic if you nothing positive to contribute to the debate?

Oh,I was contributing very positively.But you are not very appreciative in nature.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam Vol.No.8, 1936.

“I believe if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring much needed peace and happiness.
I have studied him - the man and in my opinion is far from being an anti–Christ. He must be called the Savior of Humanity.
I have prophesied about the faith of Mohammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”

This is a quote falsely attributed to Bernard Shaw.

Being an Unforgivably Protracted Debunking of George Bernard Shaw’s Views of Islam « a historian's craft

 

[KingMamba]

This is a quote falsely attributed to Bernard Shaw.

Being an Unforgivably Protracted Debunking of George Bernard Shaw’s Views of Islam « a historian's craft

Thanks for clearing that up here is his real quote.

I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capability to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. [1] The world must doubtless attach high value to the predictions of great men like me. I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today. The medieval ecclesiastics, either through ignorance or bigotry, painted Muhammadanism in the darkest colours. They were in fact trained both to hate the man Muhammad and his religion. To them Muhammad was Anti-Christ. I have studied him — the wonderful man, and in my opinion far from being an Anti-Christ he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much-needed peace and happiness. But to proceed, it was in the 19th century that honest thinkers like Carlyle, Goethe and Gibbon perceived intrinsic worth in the religion of Muhammad, and thus there was some change for the better in the European attitude towards Islam. [2] But the Europe of the present century is far advanced. It is beginning to be enamoured of the creed of Muhammad.

 

[airmarshal]

As I mentioned earlier, these are hypothetical scenarios. No disrespect intended for GB Shaw or other thinkers and posters.


Many of such analysts whitewash and forget the character of Mohammad pbuh BEFORE Islam (his first 40 years) and even with such an absolutely good character, the level of difficulty faced by Him pbuh AFTER he proclaimed Islam.

You all think, a prophet comes and waves a wand and everything goes green and straight. It doesn't.


You ought to look at the BIG picture and overall picture. If we just take a snippet of His life towards the end, everything will look easy.

But it wasn't.


In today's world, if he comes as a messenger and starts his work in America or Canada, he may survive. I said "may" survive. Because even in America, Mormans faced HUGE hardships because they challenged the existing thoughts within Christianity.

Coming to Pakistan, Middle East etc. This is where my earlier post referenced to and unfortunately you didn't understand.

In conservative societies like ours, any new messenger will be suicide-bombed the day he opens his mouth against the zulm and cruelty in our society going on in the name of Islam.

So as I said,

Do not color your eye-glasses with green reverence, being a messenger is not easy. If Jesus pbuh was crucified so long ago, you think Talib-baboons and Tali-chimps will forgive someone in Pakistan. Anyone who challenges their version of Islam?

Huh?

wake up and smell the coffee please.


Or may be you and Zarvan are hoping for another Ben-Ladeen, zawahiri, or Mullah Omer as the premier models for this prophethood in our society.

who knows!

Not entierly true. But if you take the narrative of jihad from them, it takes thw wind out of their sails.

The problem is with us Muslims, first and foremost. We dont understand the teachings of Islam. We still believe in the perverted version of jihad that was taught by CIA to get rid of Soviet Union. If someone from amongst us ask the fellow Muslims to learn about Islam, he is branded an extremist in the very next post.

The problem is not as black and white. Suicide bomber cant be deterred by more bombings. He can only be deterred through education and taking away the reason for suicide.

The first important thing to know is that we need to get out of this fake war on terror. We have destroyed our country because a handful of US supporters are in government and army. Give the army Coalition Support Fund and the corrupt mafia political leaders the right to hold office and everyone is happy participating in this war. After all, its not their kids who are dying. Their money, kids, businesses are abroad.

Why TTP does not go to Afghanistan and suicide bomb US army? Why they do it against us? WE need to think hard about this.

 

[KingMamba]

As I mentioned earlier, these are hypothetical scenarios. No disrespect intended for GB Shaw or other thinkers and posters.


Many of such analysts whitewash and forget the character of Mohammad pbuh BEFORE Islam (his first 40 years) and even with such an absolutely good character, the level of difficulty faced by Him pbuh AFTER he proclaimed Islam.

You all think, a prophet comes and waves a wand and everything goes green and straight. It doesn't.


You ought to look at the BIG picture and overall picture. If we just take a snippet of His life towards the end, everything will look easy.

But it wasn't.


In today's world, if he comes as a messenger and starts his work in America or Canada, he may survive. I said "may" survive. Because even in America, Mormans faced HUGE hardships because they challenged the existing thoughts within Christianity.

Coming to Pakistan, Middle East etc. This is where my earlier post referenced to and unfortunately you didn't understand.

In conservative societies like ours, any new messenger will be suicide-bombed the day he opens his mouth against the zulm and cruelty in our society going on in the name of Islam.

So as I said,

Do not color your eye-glasses with green reverence, being a messenger is not easy. If Jesus pbuh was crucified so long ago, you think Talib-baboons and Tali-chimps will forgive someone in Pakistan. Anyone who challenges their version of Islam?

Huh?

wake up and smell the coffee please.


Or may be you and Zarvan are hoping for another Ben-Ladeen, zawahiri, or Mullah Omer as the premier models for this prophethood in our society.

who knows!

First I am not a fan of Zarvan, I think he is crazy. Second in this hypothetical scenario are we saying Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is still around today or if he started his preaching in this time period?? If we are talking about him still being alive today (hypothetically of course) than the Mullahs and the Talibans would not ever have come into existence because our noble Prophet would not have let Islam be tarnished so unabated for the agenda that the Taliban and the Mullahs are trying to promote. However if we are talking about him starting his preaching today (hypothetically of course) than he would not face much hardships if he started off in someplace like Pakistan because there would be no Talibans or Mullahs trying to twist Islam for their own goals and most likely Pakistan would probably be just another province of the Indian Republic whether Buddhist or Hindu majority. If he were to start in the West he would find it even easier because of the freedom of religion provided here. Although in such a scenario perhaps the Hindus and Buddhists of the subcontinent would be more open to the real teachings of Islam from the man himself because they would had never had been subjugated at the hands of bigots like Timur and Aurangzeb.

 

[Secur]

The problem is with us Muslims, first and foremost.

We dont understand the teachings of Islam. We still believe in the perverted version of jihad that was taught by CIA to get rid of Soviet Union. If someone from amongst us ask the fellow Muslims to learn about Islam, he is branded an extremist in the very next post.

Exactly ! The problem lies with us and the admission of the very problem can bring a hope for the return towards the path of recovery ...

Second , yes it is true ... Anyone can have a different interpretation of Islam , we are fine with it as long as they do not start forcing it on everyone at gun point which sadly is the state of affairs today ... If you are referring to Zarvan , then please check his posts and tell me if you see any rationality anywhere in glorifying the people who kill innocents whom they do not even know - who have merely disagreed with them or enforcing things at the " point of sword " with " full force " and " kill em all " messages ... What else is it if not extremism ?

 

[Secur]

What about taliban? they have killed may more pakistanis and they claim to be the leaders of islam, Musharaf is not a liberal btw.

Nah , those are fine gentlemen who do not even know who they are killing - capital punishment for everything ... The only culprit is Musharraf here for trying to extend the writ of Govt of Pakistan to tribal areas

killed their children and women and now expect them to show mercy to you WOW first kill them destroy everything they have than expect humanity from them who pathetic of liberal jerks

Tribals have been killing each other for centuries and enslaving women in the name of some ancient " code of honor " ... Well before even the creation of Pakistan ! ... I expect them to atleast show mercy to their brethren belonging to different tribes of the same area whom they were killing then and whom they are killing now ... Who kills the tribals in the FATA besides drones ? Who are killed when a suicide bomber goes off in a bazaar in North Waziristan ? Anything about that ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

First I am not a fan of Zarvan, I think he is crazy. Second in this hypothetical scenario are we saying Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is still around today or if he started his preaching in this time period?? If we are talking about him still being alive today (hypothetically of course) than the Mullahs and the Talibans would not ever have come into existence because our noble Prophet would not have let Islam be tarnished so unabated for the agenda that the Taliban and the Mullahs are trying to promote. However if we are talking about him starting his preaching today (hypothetically of course) than he would not face much hardships if he started off in someplace like Pakistan because there would be no Talibans or Mullahs trying to twist Islam for their own goals and most likely Pakistan would probably be just another province of the Indian Republic whether Buddhist or Hindu majority. If he were to start in the West he would find it even easier because of the freedom of religion provided here. Although in such a scenario perhaps the Hindus and Buddhists of the subcontinent would be more open to the real teachings of Islam from the man himself because they would had never had been subjugated at the hands of bigots like Timur and Aurangzeb.

Oh. I get it,.

Your hypothesis was based on the the factor "If Mohammad pbuh is 1400+ years old". OK

My analysis was that if He would come to this world in this era like a normal human.

Remember Prophets according to Islam (at least the Abraham onwards) were all normal humans and lived normal lives.


Thank you


p.s. I think I'll stop here because the flight of fancy for many on this forum is going way beyond human limitations.

 

[KingMamba]

Oh. I get it,.

Your hypothesis was based on the the factor "If Mohammad pbuh is 1400+ years old". OK

My analysis was that if He would come to this world in this era like a normal human.

Remember Prophets according to Islam (at least the Abraham onwards) were all normal humans and lived normal lives.


Thank you


p.s. I think I'll stop here because the flight of fancy for many on this forum is going way beyond human limitations.

This is a hypothetical scenario so it can be taken in both ways which is why I listed both ways. However you have already given up on humanity it seems by your various posts where you continuously criticize everything without offering any solutions. I fear my friend you may be suicidal.

PS- I think I will stop here because I would not want to read on dawn that some man offed himself after a session on pdf as hypothetical scenarios are mistaken for reality by some posters.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Not entierly true. But if you take the narrative of jihad from them, it takes thw wind out of their sails.

The problem is with us Muslims, first and foremost. We dont understand the teachings of Islam. We still believe in the perverted version of jihad that was taught by CIA to get rid of Soviet Union. If someone from amongst us ask the fellow Muslims to learn about Islam, he is branded an extremist in the very next post.

The problem is not as black and white. Suicide bomber cant be deterred by more bombings. He can only be deterred through education and taking away the reason for suicide.

The first important thing to know is that we need to get out of this fake war on terror. We have destroyed our country because a handful of US supporters are in government and army. Give the army Coalition Support Fund and the corrupt mafia political leaders the right to hold office and everyone is happy participating in this war. After all, its not their kids who are dying. Their money, kids, businesses are abroad.

Why TTP does not go to Afghanistan and suicide bomb US army? Why they do it against us? WE need to think hard about this.

Common Air Marshal Sahib.

This line "we do not understand Islam" is now getting too tiring. If 1+ billion Muslims cannot produce one person who truly understands Islam, then there is no need to even discuss this thingy.


Tell us who understands Islam?

Who?

Ayatullahs of Iran? Yeah Rigth!

Mullahs of Saudi? You betcha.

This is just a circular argument. We don't understand this or we don't understand that.

what they say _--- Na no mund tail ho ga, Na Radha naachay gi

Catch 22, dare I say.


Thank you

 

[FaujHistorian]

This is a hypothetical scenario so it can be taken in both ways which is why I listed both ways. However you have already given up on humanity it seems by your various posts where you continuously criticize everything without offering any solutions. I fear my friend you may be suicidal.
.

Well if that was the case, then it is just false religiosity at its best.

Hamara Nabi ah ub aa Jaa-ay to sub theek ker day
-- Our Nabi will come with a magic wand and everything will be fixed in a day.

sorry to say that such an argument has been forwarded by pagans and idol-worshippers from the beginning of time.

....

PS- I think I will stop here because I would not want to read on dawn that some man offed himself after a session on pdf as hypothetical scenarios are mistaken for reality by some posters.

What? No idea.