Pictures & Video of the Three Z-10 Helicopters to Pakistan - updated

[Mughal-Prince]

Yes i am and i have good reason to believe that.
Let me post a link for you.

Sorry that was a question. Should have used question mark instead of period.


@princeiftikharmirza

Pakistan's Home made GSR , Ground surveillance radar

Read the whole article.

Thanks mate will read it ASAP

 

[Bilal.]

Battle proven has become as abused term as ToT on this forum. Every weapon is initially unproven.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Battle proven has become as abused term as ToT on this forum. Every weapon is initially unproven.

Cannot say i wasn't expecting this. Anyone who says that operational history does not matter to a buyer has no idea what they are talking about.

The ones ridiculing the terms are more responsible for their abuse than the ones mentioning them.

 

[flameboard]

Bauhut dair ki Meherban Aatay aatay ...
Aur Aatay hi hug dia.
Na ouglay chain Na niglay chain welcome my indian friend

I'm not Indian and I'm not sure I understand that entirely.

 

[That Guy]

Hey, China presents you the better chance of ToT than any other country. I doubt Turkey can do that.

I pretty sure Turkey did offer ToT on the T-129, plus two free systems and local assembly, that was Turkey's offer. There are two problems with the deal, the US engines and the total cost.

Still holding out hope.

 

[VelocuR]

 

[cabatli_53]

WZ10 will be graded E(Exceded Expectations)

T-129b will be excellent for COIN ops whereas WZ10 with WZ16 turboshaft will be a great chopper for anti armour role.

-It is T-129A which is developed for COIN missions. 9 of them are delivered to Army.
-T-129B1 is a perfect multi-role attack helicopter which have a perfect self defence and jamming capability against SAM missiles. B1 is going to carry MMW radar system for moving land target engagements. Automatic obstacle detection/lazer based wire detection and Digital moving map system are standart payloads on B1. The missiles to be carried by B-1 is going to be certified as 8 Mizrak-U + Tens of Cirit missiles. In accordance with mission profile, Atak B1 wing allows B1 to carry 16 Mizrak-U missiles in accordance with changing situations. Atak is one of the best attack helicopter in terms of power to weight ratio.

Mizrak-U comes with two variant. IIR guided variant is more expensive than lazer guided one. Mizrak-IIR comes with two strategic attacking functions gunner can choose before launch(Top attack/Direct attack). Top attack allows gunner to hit moving targets like tanks, Althouh It hides behind an obstacle during missile approach, While direct attack mode enables Mizrak missiles to directly hit/penetrate tanks from side places where turret and chassis connected.
Similar top-attack mode are used by Turkish cruise missiles as well.

Mizrak-IIR variant also allow helo gunner to lock targets before/after launch capabilities. If gunner choose "After launch" capability, Missile is firstly launched to a place where is suspected to be a target behind/land troops reported. While missile navigates through there, Gunner check the suspected area from missiles' seeker. When He detected an activity from MFD screen or AVCI HMDU helmet, It is locked by gunner's joystick. Such functions on AT missiles are only provided by a few missile manufacturers in NATO.

What Turkey offered Pakistan, was T129 Atak-B1 with ToT.

 

[Bilal.]

Cannot say i wasn't expecting this. Anyone who says that operational history does not matter to a buyer has no idea what they are talking about.

The ones ridiculing the terms are more responsible for their abuse than the ones mentioning them.

It does matter. But when the term gets tossed around as the final verdict then it becomes ridiculous. There are many other factors that are important and not just being battle proven, if that were not the case then there wouldn't be a new weapon system developed, ever.

 

[araz]

-It is T-129A which is developed for COIN missions. 9 of them are delivered to Army.
-T-129B1 is a perfect multi-role attack helicopter which have a perfect self defence and jamming capability against SAM missiles. B1 is going to carry MMW radar system for moving land target engagements. The missiles to be carried by B-1 is going to be certified as 8 Mizrak-U + Tens of Cirit missiles. In accordance with mission profile, Atak B1 wing allows B1 to carry 16 Mizrak-U missiles in accordance with changing situations. Atak is one of the best attack helicopter in terms of power to weight ratio.

Mizrak-U comes with two variant. IIR guided variant is more expensive than lazer guided one. Mizrak-IIR comes with two strategic attacking functions gunner can choose before launch(Top attack/Direct attack). Top attack allows gunner to hit moving targets like tanks, Althouh It hides behind an obstacle during missile approach, While direct attack mode enables Mizrak missiles to directly hit/penetrate tanks from side places where turret and chassis connected. IIR variant also allow helo gunner to lock targets before/after launch capabilities. If gunner choose "After launch" capability, Missile is firstly launched to a place where is suspected to be a target behind. While missile navigates through there, Gunner check the suspected area from missiles' seeker. When He detected an activity from MFD screen or AVCI HMDU helmet, It is locked by gunner's joystick. Such functions on AT missiles are only provided by a few missile manufacturers in NATO.

What Turkey offered Pakistan, was T129 Atak-B1 with ToT.

No one in their right mind would doubt the capabilities of the T129B . The problem remains funding issues with the corrupt Pakistani government and frankly short of a miracle I see no hope of things improving any time soon. Z10 is a stronger contender due to this reason alone. No one can match the Chinese on price due to very low labour costs. As to capabilities they will more or less match however with both parties we will have the opportunities of joint research and access. The other factor remains the US engine although it will be up to Turkey to persuade US and keep us going in case of adverse reaction from the US. I again don't doubt thateither. However can I ask when the T129B will be available for foreign customers as I guess Turkey also needs the capabilites sooner rather than later.
Araz

 

[cabatli_53]

No one in their right mind would doubt the capabilities of the T129B . The problem remains funding issues with the corrupt Pakistani government and frankly short of a miracle I see no hope of things improving any time soon. Z10 is a stronger contender due to this reason alone. No one can match the Chinese on price due to very low labour costs. As to capabilities they will more or less match however with both parties we will have the opportunities of joint research and access. The other factor remains the US engine although it will be up to Turkey to persuade US and keep us going in case of adverse reaction from the US. I again don't doubt thateither. However can I ask when the T129B will be available for foreign customers as I guess Turkey also needs the capabilites sooner rather than later.
Araz

TAI is producing T129 B1's at present. Delivery of A variants(9) to army is completed and It is expected to take delivery of first 12 T129 B1 to Army in this year. If a certain deal is signed, I think TAI will enlarge the number of Ataks to be manufactured on facility to satisfy both costumer (Turkish Army and export costumer).

 

[帅的一匹]

The problem is always with the money. if Turkey can provide soft loan, I think Pakistan will consider inducting T129. Can Turkey export T129 without USA's permission? The problem is the Yankee doesn't allow exporting new Cobra even Pakistan pay cash. Without money, under sanction, WZ10 is the only choice and the best choice.I hope Wz10 will give good performance in PA, so as to knock down the query. A friend come in need is a friend indeed.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

I'm not Indian and I'm not sure I understand that entirely.

Sorry dost another friendly fire victim ;p

 

[Hell hound]

There is an issue of reliability. China itself is still testing the platform, even if it has inducted it into service. The only reason why China is giving these to Pakistan, just like it has done in the past, is to test it's weapon systems in actual combat. Pakistan is in the midst of an insurgency, these attack helis would see a lot of action, which would directly help the Chinese improve the system by collecting data provided by PAA's military operations.

Real combat testing is one of the reasons why Russia, the US and European military consortiums dominate the global arms market. They can get their weapons tested almost immediately after their initial development has been completed. The Syrian war has been a blessing in disguise for Chinese and Russian military industries, because both sides of the Syrian war are using Chinese and Russia weapons. Where as the Iraq and Afghan war has been a blessing for the US and EU, because they've been able to increase military budgets and test their latest weapons and gadgets in combat.

A simple real world example, the armed predator drones are a direct result of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Iraq showed the US that simply putting on an MANPAD or a ASM to a drone won't do anything, the Afghan war helped the US test the drones in different environments, and for a much longer time, without having to worry about a densely populated area, which Iraq was. Directly as a result of these two wars, the US air force airstrikes decreased as a result, causing the US to have a quicker, more efficient system in place for ground attack operations, as well as save on maintenance and costs of said operations.

[Edit]: This is a very basic explanation of my understand on this situation. There is a lot of information that I haven't mentioned, such as the how the Chinese would use this info for their next gen weapons systems. I suggest looking through the forums and reading older threads. There is a wealth of information on here, so go e-archaeology on the forums and dig up old threads to read. I hope that helps.

that helps a lot thanks mate.

 

[atlantis_cn]

First of all, gratitude? Why? I'm not the one you're giving this to, its the PAA. I'm not some stooge you can buy or bully to say what you want, so don't talk down to me as if you're being generous to a homeless man.

Second, why would China give them to Iraq, or Afghanistan? Wouldn't make much sense. Iraq's military is worthless, and has no time to induct a Chinese platform that is completely different to what they're used to with Russian and US platforms. Afghanistan doesn't have the technical know how, nor the money to keep up maintenance, giving these to Afghanistan would be the height of stupidity, as it nay very well end up in the hands of either India or the US, or even worse, the Taliban who'd sell it to the highest bidder. Thankfully, China's military leadership is smart.

It's not about confidence, its about need. This isn't free, as you claim. Pakistan is going to evaluate this platform, as would any nation, and China is going to use this opertunaty to gain valuable data.

It isn't just the Chinese who do this, every arms dealing nation does thus, including the US and Russia. Are you suggesting that China is different and special? From what I can tell, China is no different, nor should it be any different.

Like what I said before, some overboard Pakistani really got brainwashed by the western propaganda badly. Learn your country's history first. It's not the first time China send Pakistan free military hardware. And Pakistan is not the only country that China supply them with free military hardware. It's never been about business. No county in this planet will send you 3 free helos to use them in real combat just for business. If you believe that, you are a true retard.

And valuable data? What valuable data? And which can only be obtained in Pakistan's battle zone? Hehe. People like you just enjoy to make things up. I hope not all Pakistani will believe this kind of shit.

Finally, I hope all of us can cherish our relationship between Pakistan and China, which has been existed for many decades and been reinforced by mutual support for millions of times. It's not based on business at all.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

hanger looks familiar to me, not gonna disclose the location due to obvious reasons.

It is Pakistan look at up to fans .... Says Pak fan