Peshawar school attackers mostly Pakistan nationals: DG ISPR!

[DRaisinHerald]

Dude, the same view is expressed on this forum by so many Pakistani members including you (of course you will deny it) and I have met many Pakistanis who share the same views.

You seem to be a bigger expert on Muslims and Pakistanis than most of us.

 

[Musafir117]

Not quite true. There are more ethnicities in Iran than Pakistan:

Funding Mujahideen to fight against Soviet Union in the name of ISLAM was NEVER is NOT will NEVER be our national interest! Got it? And what has PTI to do with this thread? Pakistan lost more under that civilian dictator Nooray's leadership than under PTI's 126 day dharna.


DG ISPR used the word "Pakistani". Blame him, not me

His whole briefing you chose a word only "Pakistani" me You We all know that terrorists have no boundaries no religion no cast no creed they are simply terrorist, what DG bring the name his intentions are patriot and referring/indicating a lot, but your thread intention nothing but de fame the entire nation.

 

[Norwegian]

His whole briefing you chose a word only "Pakistani" me You We all know that terrorists have no boundaries no religion no cast no creed they are simply terrorist, what DG bring the name his intentions are patriot and referring/indicating a lot, but your thread intention nothing but de fame the entire nation.

Nonsensical gibberish. I just quoted from original article that was published in the Express Tribune:
Peshawar school attackers mostly Pakistan nationals: DG ISPR – The Express Tribune

Blame them not me

 

[rockstar08]

this is really an awesome thread ... Pakistani's doing Maa behn of their own Govt Institutions ... really if we have such Extremist from both sides , Religious and secular's than do we actually need a Enemy ?
Our society is been F*cked up by every kinds ... Religious lunatics , and secular BS ..... either its religion or Secularism , the real thing will remain the same in case of Pakistan ....

i have few Question here , which comes in my mind after watching the recent interview of Durrani ...

1. Why there was no one in the whole world who was blowing up building , trains , and Planes , in the name of Jihad before 9/11 ?
2. Why there was no Struggle for Jihad in Iraq , Afghanistan post 9/11 ?
3. Why we see that Terrorism aka WOT is just getting intense by every passing year ?
4. Can we Differentiate between the Afghan Mujaheen and Taliban ??
5. If Afghan Mujahdeen were Terrorist , why they were drinking tea with the President of USA ?
6. If Afghan Taliban are terrorist than why US recently change their stance ?
7. Why All of a sudden TTP and their kinds start their Jihad in Pakistan ,just 2 years after Pakistan test its nuke ? which almost all world apposed ?
8. If Zia was the real Gabber than who Assassinated him ? ( p.s i dont like Zia )
9. According to UN resolution , Any country who is under foreign Occupation has the Right to pick up Arms , how this Afghan war is different from That UN resolution ?
10. Pakistan Providing support to Terrorist in India ? any prove for that ??
11. Kashmir was never the part of India , and If Pakistan support Kashmir resistance , than why its different from US assistance to Afghans aka Terrorist in cold war ?
12. And if ISI is playing any role in Kashmir resistance , than you all should blame Quaid-e-Azam .. because he was the one who started this war .. not Zia , Mushi or anyone else ..
13. If west was so Angels as so many people believe them to be , than why there is no Peace is Afghanistan ? why there is no Peace in Iraq ? and why whole of the ME is burning ?
14. If Pakistan was that evil , than why US and NATO did not attack us ?? what's stopping them ?? i am sure they are not afraid of PA ..
15. Pakistani kills Pakistani kids in the most brutal way , by shooting them on point blank range ... similarly a US young boy shoot 14 kids , on point blank range .. but that was suppose to be a lone wolf ? why this ?


@Jungibaaz @Armstrong ...
I am expecting some reasonable answer here , so dont tell me that i am running after Conspiracy theories ..

 

[RescueRanger]

This is just one of the useless, senseless threads.

What a pointless post. No this is not a useless, senseless thread. There is nothing senseless about it. The only thing senseless is your lack of tact given the subject.

 

[Norwegian]

1. Why there was no one in the whole world who was blowing up building , trains , and Planes , in the name of Jihad before 9/11 ?

Sure there were. Its not my fault that you don't know about them. They began in the 80's after Iranian Revolution and only intensified ever since:
List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Why there was no Struggle for Jihad in Iraq , Afghanistan post 9/11 ?

Really? Ever heard of Islamic insurgency post 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan? No? Check links below:
Iraqi insurgency (2003–11) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Taliban insurgency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Why we see that Terrorism aka WOT is just getting intense by every passing year ?

Because the war was directed at symptoms not causes. US should have bombed Saudis, Emiratis, Qataris and Iranians instead of bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. Root of Islamic terrorism was never Afghanistan or Iraq. It was always oil rich and mostly stable Muslim states of the Middle East. Want proof? 15 out of 19 hijackers who did 9/11 were Saudis, oh the irony
Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. Can we Differentiate between the Afghan Mujaheen and Taliban ??

No, you can't! There is no distinction between good terrorist and bad terrorist. Both are Islamic radicals and must be eradicated from the face of this earth!

5. If Afghan Mujahdeen were Terrorist , why they were drinking tea with the President of USA ?

Because back then, they were "good" terrorists because they were fighting a holy war against Soviet Union, archrival of US. 16 years later, they became "bad" terrorists because they were now fighting the West. LOL!

6. If Afghan Taliban are terrorist than why US recently change their stance ?

Because US changes its terrorist labels after what fits to their foreign policy interests. In 1985 Talibans were regarded as good as US founding fathers by President Reagan. Flash forward 16 years later, they were called Islamofascists by President Bush. As I said, oh the irony!

7. Why All of a sudden TTP and their kinds start their Jihad in Pakistan ,just 2 years after Pakistan test its nuke ? which almost all world apposed ?

Not all of a sudden! TTP traces its roots to many smaller Islamic factions that were Saudi-funded and working hard to impose Shariah in entire Pakistan. One such group even took Swat Valley from Pakistani government for a short period of time. And NO, they were not Taliban but "likely-minded" as propagated by our dear Saudi friends
Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8. If Zia was the real Gabber than who Assassinated him ? ( p.s i dont like Zia )

How the hell do you call an accidental airplane crash "assassination" where US lost many of its own most senior diplomats and military personnel?
Death and state funeral of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

9. According to UN resolution , Any country who is under foreign Occupation has the Right to pick up Arms , how this Afghan war is different from That UN resolution ?

Northern Alliance had a right to bear Arms against Taliban insurgents which they did after US-coalition's help post 2001! Now Afghanistan is finally a sovereign country again!
Northern Alliance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10. Pakistan Providing support to Terrorist in India ? any prove for that ??

Ask Indian RAW and American CIA for proofs. They will provide you with more than enough satisfactory proofs for just that!

11. Kashmir was never the part of India , and If Pakistan support Kashmir resistance , than why its different from US assistance to Afghans aka Terrorist in cold war ?

Sure, Pakistan was never a part of India, so why whine when East Pakistan broke apart?
If Pakistan has an inalienable right to support terrorists or insurgents in Indian occupied Kashmir, why can't India to the same in East Pakistan, Balochistan, Tribal Areas etc?

12. And if ISI is playing any role in Kashmir resistance , than you all should blame Quaid-e-Azam .. because he was the one who started this war .. not Zia , Mushi or anyone else ..

NO! Quaid-e-Azam never started a war with India on Kashmir. It was only after tribal leaders from Waziristan (today's Pakistan) took the initiative on their own and went on killing and pillage spree in Kashmir that Pak-Army was ordered to intervene on their side:
Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

13. If west was so Angels as so many people believe them to be , than why there is no Peace is Afghanistan ? why there is no Peace in Iraq ? and why whole of the ME is burning ?

Really? Tell me why there is no peace in entire Middle East even when almost all Western countries left them post-WW2? Why is there civil war in Syria? Riots in Egypt? Chaos in Libya? Were West involved there too? I doubt it!

14. If Pakistan was that evil , than why US and NATO did not attack us ?? what's stopping them ?? i am sure they are not afraid of PA ..

Why should they attack a nuclear armed state? Are you serious?

15. Pakistani kills Pakistani kids in the most brutal way , by shooting them on point blank range ... similarly a US young boy shoot 14 kids , on point blank range .. but that was suppose to be a lone wolf ? why this ?

There are always lone wolves and organized radicals everywhere!

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Go tell that to DG ISPR, or the families of the 150 people, mostly children, murdered in cold blood.

Tell them what ?

What a pointless post. No this is not a useless, senseless thread. There is nothing senseless about it. The only thing senseless is your lack of tact given the subject.

I know two families personally whose kids were killed in the attack. In the post above, I was rather referring to the title and this discussion that has ensued about nationality of the attackers. Speaking of lack of tact, a bit ironic I would say.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Tell them what ?


I know two families personally whose kids were killed in the attack. In the post above, I was rather referring to the title and this discussion that has ensued about nationality of the attackers. Speaking of lack of tact, a bit ironic I would say.

I knew 2 families too... including brig tariq whose wife was burnt alive... (she was pregnant).

Another family i knew lost 2 sons.

 

[TankMan]

Tell them what ?

That you think discussing and analyzing the massacre is 'useless' and 'senseless'.

 

[Jungibaaz]

this is really an awesome thread ... Pakistani's doing Maa behn of their own Govt Institutions ... really if we have such Extremist from both sides , Religious and secular's than do we actually need a Enemy ?
Our society is been F*cked up by every kinds ... Religious lunatics , and secular BS ..... either its religion or Secularism , the real thing will remain the same in case of Pakistan ....

i have few Question here , which comes in my mind after watching the recent interview of Durrani ...

You have a lot of questions, that I could talk about for many paragraphs for each, I will go over some of them briefly, you can pick some out and discuss them with myself and other members.

1. Why there was no one in the whole world who was blowing up building , trains , and Planes , in the name of Jihad before 9/11 ?

There was, it happened very differently, before it was localized and not as far reaching or effective. In Israel, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Bosnia. There are examples of elements very similar to the modern Islamic fundamentalist being led there and fighting, albeit the tactics we're much less deplorable, with the exception of hostage sieges and bombings. Only a fringe among those such as Al Qaeda were still active, some in Lebanon, early 80's Hamas. The seeds of this were there since the 80's.... I would advise you to seek out a documentary by Robert Frisk, ME journalist about the conflicts at the time, he gave a very chilling warning to the West back then in the 80's that they must pay attention tow what is happening here, not to fight, but be careful with your interventions, and recognize this reality. Please remember, although less pronounced, officially, the War on Terror started under Reagen, not Bush.

However, the popular factor for these guys was missing, they sold the idea of a clash of civilisations, and this was not a popular message until the US intervened so haphazardly in the Muslim world, Bush himself was foolish enough to use the word 'crusade'.

And I will continue this point in the next comment:

2. Why there was no Struggle for Jihad in Iraq , Afghanistan post 9/11 ?

In Iraq, it was absent, full stop, the more conservative and radical elements of Sunni Iraqis was contained well within the Ba'athist ideology and Saddam's regime. Well contained, and not anything like the Al Qaeda or ISIS that followed.

In Afghanistan, 2 decades of non-stop war, a country ravaged by first the Soviets then by Afghan governments, then by war lords, then by 2 civil wars. Afghanistan found itself to be a dysfunctional state with many youth who could not read but could wield arms, could not be conquered in battle but their hearts and minds were soft as clay. That left them wide open to radicalisation, such that began in the 80's, with varying degrees, all parties, Saudis, ISI, and CIA all took part.

However, even so, the Taliban of then were barbaric but not as barbaric as they seem today. Their bombardment of Kabul is legendary, their killing of civilians in enforcing their laws is legendary. They were politically a lot like a less radical version of ISIS back then, they saw themselves as a state and not an army.

The US' foolish intervention, took something like 300 Al Qaeda (fringe, highly radicalised), and tens of thousands of Taliban (less radical), and painted them with the same brush, and Al Qaeda being the way it is, easily mixed itself with the Taliban, ideologies adopted. So in the end, you had tens of thousands of highly radicalised individuals. Suddenly, the message of this 'clash of civilisations' becomes real to them.

In Iraq, the same story, Al Qaeda was not there until after the US invasion, and even then it was disenfranchised Sunni youth and ex-Ba'athists that took up the black flags.

Now...

If you look at ISIS, you know what is scaring people so much about them? I mean governments. Is it because they are more graphic and bloody? NO!

It is because they are unlike Al Qaeda or other groups, they are a state, their leader speaks openly in a mosque in Mosul, while Mullah Omar is nowhere to be seen, and Bin Laden hidden away for so many years. This scares people. The reason they can so effectively govern a state? .... simple answer.... oil, ex-Ba'athists, and local support.

The Iraqi government marginalised it's Sunni population and oppressed those who spoke against it, peaceful protests in 2013 turned into a bloodbath and from that ISIS rose. With former army men and government from Saddam era (ex-Ba'athists) ISIS is so easily able to govern like a state as opposed to a militia, this is what is frightening about them, this is why they have declared khilafat.

3. Why we see that Terrorism aka WOT is just getting intense by every passing year ?

Wrong people fighting it for the wrong reasons, fighting the wrong way. And each party involved in their own little games and self interests, at the peril of peace and the greater goals.

That and what I've said above.

4. Can we Differentiate between the Afghan Mujaheen and Taliban ??

Tricky subject, first ask yourself where your stance is vis a vis Afghanistan and it's current government.

5. If Afghan Mujahdeen were Terrorist , why they were drinking tea with the President of USA ?

You mean Haqqanis? Times changed, people change, policies change. There is no conspiracy here, the truth is very simple in fact. This is not often the case in this war.

6. If Afghan Taliban are terrorist than why US recently change their stance ?

Because they've realised they can't win, they've realised that the taliban whether they like it or not represent some people, and as long as those people are kept out the system and out of the loop, Afghanistan will remain politically unstable and therein will be further conflict, also they realise possibly that their initial role was not beneficial for any party.

Since Obama, the US has moved away from it's traditional rhetoric about Afghanistan, some basic truths accepted and a far more realistic and considerate approach taken.

7. Why All of a sudden TTP and their kinds start their Jihad in Pakistan ,just 2 years after Pakistan test its nuke ? which almost all world apposed ?

TTP started sometime in 2004. Not before. Again complex issue, many militants fled to our vast and open borders, our compliance, with US interests and some demands. Also, the element of increased radicalisation from within their ranks, they began to see Pakistan differently to what they had once did, Pakistan was not completely illegitimate in their eyes before, but after it was an enemy state.

8. If Zia was the real Gabber than who Assassinated him ? ( p.s i dont like Zia )

Americans, CIA, Russians, KGB, India, RAW, Israel, Mossad, Leftist Pakistanis, Bhutto, probability and cursed luck.

Your guess is as good as mine.

@Jungibaaz @Armstrong ...
I am expecting some reasonable answer here , so dont tell me that i am running after Conspiracy theories ..

I'll continue the rest tomorrow.

 

[syedali73]

I have been banned multiple times for saying the same thing. These terrorists mostly are our own Tribal Pushtoons and the flaw is in their upbringing and mindset which needs to be changed.

One of my negative rating also came from an Indian 'professional' because I raised the same issue and even after reporting, the management did not reverse it, even though statements from General Musharraf and several other Generals were on the record. So basically management was not convinced that India is behind terrorism in Pakistan. Now after this statement, would management reverse it?

@WebMaster @Horus

 

[Dr Gupta]

Zia really screwed up Pakistan big time, it seems the mullah brigade is not going to go away

 

[Winchester]

Read the article I quoted above. Most Pashtun politicians do not even recognize this Durand Line! Its impossible to close an imaginary border also explains why Pakistan failed to seal Pak-Afghan border after Soviet invasion.

Which Pashtun politician at least in Pakistan???
Don't care about the Afghans !
I guess you haven't been hearing the news about the same Pashtun govt. in KPK kicking their Afghan counterparts out of KPK after the Peshawar attack....
The only Pashtun political leader in Pakistan who thinks along those lines is Achakzai who just has seats from the Pashtun belt in Baluchistan...NOT a single seat from KPK !
.
.
About the topic on hand Mullah Fazalullah is a Pakistani everyone knows that !
Unfortunately we have Madressahs here which preach hatred plus a large percentage of the population especially in the tribal areas living with no hope or future...
But taking into account what the DG ISPR said about foreign hands supporting TTP it is also equally important to cut those as well !

 

[Norwegian]

Which Pashtun politician???
I guess you haven't been hearing the news about the same Pashtun govt. in KPK kicking their Afghan counterparts out of KPK after the Peshawar attack....

PTI is not Pashtun. Their most senior politicians are either Punjabis or Urdu-speakers

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Sure there were. Its not my fault that you don't know about them. They began in the 80's after Iranian Revolution and only intensified ever since:
List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please find a source better than Wikipedia and if you can't, at least be a bit logical. The attacks that happened before were all to do either with the Palestinian occupation or with Shia-Sunni tussle that only intensified after the Iranian revolution. None of them were by people claiming to be blowing themselves up because Islam was under attack.

Really? Ever heard of Islamic insurgency post 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan? No? Check links below:
Iraqi insurgency (2003–11) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Taliban insurgency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So insurgency in your grand opinion is Jihad? then how about the Buddhist Jihad in Vietnam against the US or Atheist Jihad in Eastern Europe against the Soviets? sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Because the war was directed at symptoms not causes. US should have bombed Saudis, Emiratis, Qataris and Iranians instead of bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. Root of Islamic terrorism was never Afghanistan or Iraq. It was always oil rich and mostly stable Muslim states of the Middle East. Want proof? 15 out of 19 hijackers who did 9/11 were Saudis, oh the irony
Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go tell CIA, apparently you know stuff that they don't.

No, you can't! There is no distinction between good terrorist and bad terrorist. Both are Islamic radicals and must be eradicated from the face of this earth!

Good Taliban are the ones fighting for the freedom of their country in Afghanistan. Bad Taliban are those fighting the state of Pakistan. I am only concerned with the bad ones, the good ones we don't need to bother.

As for eradication, I don't think they will ever go away completely as long as the causes are there.

Because back then, they were "good" terrorists because they were fighting a holy war against Soviet Union, archrival of US. 16 years later, they became "bad" terrorists because they were now fighting the West. LOL!



Because US changes its terrorist labels after what fits to their foreign policy interests. In 1985 Talibans were regarded as good as US founding fathers by President Reagan. Flash forward 16 years later, they were called Islamofascists by President Bush. As I said, oh the irony!

Double game is the norm, as said General Durrani.

Not all of a sudden! TTP traces its roots to many smaller Islamic factions that were Saudi-funded and working hard to impose Shariah in entire Pakistan. One such group even took Swat Valley from Pakistani government for a short period of time. And NO, they were not Taliban but "likely-minded" as propagated by our dear Saudi friends
Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TNSM has been there since the 1990s and they were never violent. The whole Pakistani Taliban episode started after Pakistan Army went into tribal areas and the Lal Masjid operation exacerbated the situation.

How the hell do you call an accidental airplane crash "assassination" where US lost many of its own most senior diplomats and military personnel?
Death and state funeral of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Accident or assassination? we don't know for sure.

Northern Alliance had a right to bear Arms against Taliban insurgents which they did after US-coalition's help post 2001! Now Afghanistan is finally a sovereign country again!
Northern Alliance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taliban were not insurgents at the time, they were in the government controlling the capital, albeit not a recognised government. Northern Alliance took up arms to liberate country from Taliban? thats rather joke of the year !

Ask Indian RAW and American CIA for proofs. They will provide you with more than enough satisfactory proofs for just that!

Indian RAW and American CIA say the have the proofs, its the claimant who produces the proof.

Sure, Pakistan was never a part of India, so why whine when East Pakistan broke apart?
If Pakistan has an inalienable right to support terrorists or insurgents in Indian occupied Kashmir, why can't India to the same in East Pakistan, Balochistan, Tribal Areas etc?

East Pakistan was and Balochistan and Tribal Areas are part of Pakistan. Kashmir on the other hand is a disputed territory between Pakistan and India as agreed by Indians themselves. See the difference?

NO! Quaid-e-Azam never started a war with India on Kashmir. It was only after tribal leaders from Waziristan (today's Pakistan) took the initiative on their own and went on killing and pillage spree in Kashmir that Pak-Army was ordered to intervene on their side:
Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes the tribals were savages and the Dogras were angels. Good point.

Really? Tell me why there is no peace in entire Middle East even when almost all Western countries left them post-WW2? Why is there civil war in Syria? Riots in Egypt? Chaos in Libya? Were West involved there too? I doubt it!

Middle East countries are ruled by a bunch of filthy dictators all supported by the West, who strangle any dissent or freedom. See Egypt for example. Or Saudi Arabia. Oh and yes, there is a hell hole called Israel, the existence of which itself doesn't really help in bringing free, democratic governments in ME, who would be answerable to their people.

There are always lone wolves and organized radicals everywhere!

Very convenient right?

That you think discussing and analyzing the massacre is 'useless' and 'senseless'.

I am not talking about the massacre, I am talking about gibberish regarding the nationalities of attackers.