Persian or Arabian Gulf? Iran, Saudi fight over name

[Djinn]

I guess you forgot about the part where Saudis and other Arab countries financed Saddamz to the tune of hundreds of Billions of dollars and cheered him on. Even Yasser Arafat came to Iran with his hat in his hand. Iranians set up tents on street corners where people were donating jewlery and cash. But as soon as Saddam invaded Iran, he threw his fulll support behind him.

Maybe you also forgot that Arabs actively claim Iranian territory that has never belonged to them. Or that the gulf Arabs have been agitating for the US to invade Iran.

This is what I m talking about. Or maybe all of that has been erased from your memory?

Iraq is irrelevant here, Since we are talking about KSA and Iran. What ever you are stating is nothing but a figment of Iranian imagination , on the other hand one can also argue that Iran wants to destroy the Arab world by building nukes, So let's not talk about what one side thinks of the other. You are an Iranian and you will tow the Iranian narrative and i am not interested in defending the Saudis because i don't have any sympathies for either of them. If these two states can learn to overcome their meager differences, it would be quite productive for the Muslim world at large.

 

[libertycall]

Carsten Niebuhr a German explorer who visited Arabian peninsula and the eastern side of the Arabian Gulf (Ahwaz) in 1760, said that nothing was persian in the eastern side of the Arabian gulf, it's all populated by Arab tripes.

Educate yourself first.

Ibn Khaldun noted one of the early Muslim historians as stating that the Persians had vanished from western Iran as if they had never existed (please check Al-Muqadima) so whom are these people claiming to be Persians??

It's interesting that in the wars between the Pashtuns and the Safavis and their later groups, the Parsees would always support the Pashtuns because of old blood ties. Who can deny that the Parsees are the descendants of the Persians?

 

[911]

I'm afraid you'll have to search for it under a discussion of the work of Wolfgang Haak. I'm not sure I bookmarked it and I have a heck of a lot of bookmarks. The Yamnaya ancestry for Pashtuns can be found at the the Polish Genes blog by searching google for the following paragraph:

'I'm seeing most of the Kalash and Pathan individuals from the HGDP modeled as ~65% Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age (LN/EBA) European and ~35% Central Asian. This, to me at least, makes a lot of sense. For instance:'

I'm too new on this forum to be allowed to post links. Sorry.

I don't know how much true it is but if Persians call themselves Persians in Iran and no one else claims to be Persians, then i doubt anything else matters. This dispute is about naming the gulf and historically it was Persian gulf. Anyways carry on your discussion on this topic with others. I'm out .

 

[saadee]

No matter it's Arab's or Persian's gulf, we need to stay away from the hot zone. Let Saudia and Iran decide it.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Iraq is irrelevant here, Since we are talking about KSA and Iran. What ever you are stating is nothing but a figment of Iranian imagination , on the other hand one can also argue that Iran wants to destroy the Arab world by building nukes, So let's not talk about what one side thinks of the other. You are an Iranian and you will tow the Iranian narrative and i am not interested in defending the Saudis because i don't have any sympathies for either of them. If these two states can learn to overcome their meager differences, it would be quite productive for the Muslim world at large.

Iraq's invasion may be irrelevant to you. But not to us. If it hadn't been for these same Arab states providing material and moral support Saddamz wouldn't have dared to attack Iran, one, and two the war wouldn't have lasted as long.

And the rest of what I said are documented facts. I can refresh your memory if you really need it.

So your moral equivalence argument doesn't hold water here, whatever line you think I'm towing here.

And that's not to say that Iranians have to be innocent like the virgin Mary. Nobody is. But this is not a chicken and egg problem. The flow of animus and violence has a clear direction.

 

[Serpentine]

all lands on both sides of the Arabian Gulf are populated by Arabs, so it's ridiculous to say it's not Arabian.
Farsi are trying to steal everything they can by fabricating facts or changing demography of Ahwaz area.
It was Arabian and it still Arabian and it's not gonna be anything else.

What percentage of people who live around Arabian see are Arabs?

It was Arabian and it still Arabian and it's not gonna be anything else.

I refer you too:

The push to call it the Arabian Gulf gathered steam during the Pan-Arab nationalist movement of the late 1950s

So much for always being Arab.

 

[Djinn]

Iraq's invasion may be irrelevant to you. But not to us. If it hadn't been for these same Arab states providing material and moral support Saddamz wouldn't have dared to attack Iran, one, and two the war wouldn't have lasted as long.

And the rest of what I said are documented facts. I can refresh your memory if you really need it.

So your moral equivalence argument doesn't hold water here, whatever line you think I'm towing here.

And that's not to say that Iranians have to be innocent like the virgin Mary. Nobody is. But this is not a chicken and egg problem. The flow of animus and violence has a clear direction.

Tell your "Iranian facts" to someone who cares, because i don't. You have admitted yourself Iranians are no angels and same goes for Saudis. They are creating problems for themselves and others.

 

[bozorgmehr]

For the same reason the Safavid Turks imported thousands of Levantine Arabs from Lebanon and wiped out the native Sunni ulema. They wanted to create a state which would be so different in nature from all the region that the nearby empires would find it difficult to incorporate it into their empire.

I refer you to 'Islam without Allah: the rise of religious externalism in Safavid Iran' by Dr Colin Turner for details of the process.

The irony is that the Ottoman Caliphate initially congratulated the Safavids on their conquest and looked forward to establishing diplomatic relations. The Safavids Shia fanatics responded by massacring Sunnis in Iraq and destroying masjids. See Kasravi's work on Safavi history.

Don't throw names around as if you have the faintest idea what they are saying.... I'm interested in what you have to say and whether you can rationally explain your ideas yourself.

So far it seems like you can't. And you wont' be able to reconcile a few basic facts even through world class gymnastics.

A few thousand clergy you say? So what I say! There's been way more than that coming and going. What does that change in the big scheme of things?

And you haven't told me the differnece between, religion, ethnicity and county. Once you do, you will have the solution to your problem.

 

[libertycall]

I don't know how much true it is but if Persians call themselves Persians in Iran and no one else claims to be Persians, then i doubt anything else matters. This dispute is about naming the gulf and historically it was Persian gulf. Anyways carry on your discussion on this topic with others. I'm out .

Well two very good reasons:

1. Historical facts. Most of the world understands and appreciates the difference between history and mythology--that may be a difficult task for you.

2. There are people who do claim to be Persians and have a far better claim to that than the Ayatollahs.

Historically it was 'Persian Gulf' only if your sense of history resembles that of the attention span of a goldfish. Let's call it the oldest and original term, 'A-aba' meaning 'Great water'.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Tell your "Iranian facts" to someone who cares, because i don't. You have admitted yourself Iranians are no angels and same goes for Saudis. They are creating problems for themselves and others.

Well I wasn't under the impression that you cared about Iran, per se. But I did assume that you cared about thinking like a sane and rational person. My bad, sorry....

 

[Djinn]

Well I wasn't under the impression that you cared about Iran, per se. But I did assume that you cared about thinking like a sane and rational person. My bad, sorry....

From my first post i did mention I hold Iran and KSA equally responsible for the mess they have created. You are an Iranian and you want me to pick your side which isn't happening. I am not here to impress you, so no skin off my nose.

 

[libertycall]

Don't throw names around as if you have the faintest idea what they are saying.... I'm interested in what you have to say and whether you can rationally explain your ideas yourself.

So far it seems like you can't. And you wont' be able to reconcile a few basic facts even through world class gymnastics.

A few thousand clergy you say? So what I say! There's been way more than that coming and going. What does that change in the big scheme of things?

And you haven't told me the differnece between, religion, ethnicity and county. Once you do, you will have the solution to your problem.

I'm giving you sources and you're replying back with your own opinions.

Have you read Ahmad Kasravi? Or is he still banned by the Ayatollahs?

 

[haman10]

the real arabian gulf

View attachment 287151

Don't swim in that. That would be swimming in shit

Literally speaking

 

[bozorgmehr]

From my first post i did mention I hold Iran and KSA equally responsible for the mess they have created. You are an Iranian and you want me to pick your side which isn't happening. I am not here to impress you, so no skin off my nose.

Why don't you stop worrying about what you think I want, and stick with what I'm telling you? We're not turkies here. We have a brain. We can think. We can reason our way out of dilemmas. If simplistic, general arguments do the trick for you, then by all means.... knock yourself out. But unreasoned thinking is for simpletons. And from what I've been able to gather, simpletons don't have very pleasant lives. Hate Iran, love Iran... that's your opinion. But I think we should still be able to coherently explain ourselves....

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Why Arabian Gulf and not the Persian Gulf?

1- Used by the Arab League.
2- Used by United Nations in their Arabic documents and Arabic Language is an official language in the United Nations.
3- The name “Persian gulf” is linked to the Persian empire that does not exist any more. As Mediterranean sea used to be called Roman Sea.
4- Iran does not mean Persia, Iranian people consist of Persians, Arabs, Azeri, Turkmen, Kurds, Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Lurs, and Baluchis.
5- The people who live around the gulf are mostly Arabs so by demography it should be called Arabian Gulf.
6- There are 6 Arabic countries around the gulf but Iran is alone and 70% of the coast line is under Arabic countries.