Persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan contradicts the teachings of Islam

[Hyde]

"The Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wassalm has informed us: The true Mahdi will fill the world with justice and equality and the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him (Musnad Ahmad)."

The Promised Messiah’s name is ‘Isa (A.S) and his mothers name was Maryam.
But these signs tells us that he was neither a Messiah nor Imam Mahdi.

There is no point in giving ahadees to them. Like I mentioned one of my best friend who lives opposite my home is placed at higher rank in Rabwah and given job of community service, like he is one of the few people responsible to cater the needs of every Qadiyani in Pakistan and he is always travelling and meeting the people of his faith to resolve all the financial and social related problems across Pakistan. His father and grand father all devoted their life to this faith. One day we were having an argument and he said, ok give me the proof that Prophet Muhammad S.A.W is the last prophet of Allah.

My uncle read the verse that everybody mentions that Prophet is the seal of the Prophet and he interpreted as... No the verse actually mentions he is the leader of the Prophet as its Khataman-nabbiyeen and not Khatum-un-nabiyyen.

So my uncle read the Hadeeth that Prophet Muhammad S.A.W says, ana khatim un nabiyyen la nabi baad... that I am the last Prophet and there shall be no prophet after me and my friend replied... oh I know this hadeeth but we believe this Hadeeth is not true... do you have any other prooof claiming the hadeeth to be true...

So he read another hadeeth and he goes.. oh we believe this hadeeth is also not true... so he read out 4-5 ahdeeth and he kept on saying... yes I know but we believe this hadeeth is not true either... and the bottom line is... whatever part of Islamic faith that contradicts with them is not true and show more proofs... which will also be denied...

And this is coming from a house who was really close to Rabwah. When his Grandfather died, I can't tell you how many people across Pakistan were gathered as the whole family is devoted to Rabwah and close to them. His elder brother goes to preach Qadiyanism in Russia, Germany, India and many nations on weekly basis and I guess he will also be doing the same

 

[Hamza913]

1. Pure speculation
2. Everything except proclaiming prophethood is permissible. The rest seems like a copy paste rhetoric, mirza Qadiyani was a fairly respectable scholar during his early forays.
3.please provide proof, that just you parroting someone
4. The one and only matter of dispute that the Qadiyanis need to clarify in order to end the state law against them.
5&6 are also speculaion and mere rhetoric that is irrelevant to the core issue in 4.

1. Still possible.
2. Lying isn't permissible, as he did twice.
3. See my reply to a previous member.
4. On that we can agree.
5. No that's fact.
6. There is historical evidence to prove its likely correct.

Jinnah refused to declare Ahmadis Non-Muslim and resisted tooth and nail the pressure that brought upon him to turn them out of the Muslim League.

“Ahmadis are Muslims, If They Say They are Muslims and No One, Not Even the Sovereign Legislature, has the Right to Say Otherwise." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 05 May 1944.

As much as I appreciate Jinnah for Pakistan, I don't agree with him on this.

 

[TMA]

The Ahmadi's are doing this openly in UK. Now I ask you these questions -

1. Have they damaged you or the Islamic community in UK?
2. What actions have you taken to follow on from (1) to expel them from your neighbourhood?

There are not any in my neighborhood.

 

[M. Sarmad]

That is because he died within three years of that. Perhaps you can get the opinion of dead men, must be a seer thing.

Not an opinion, it is clear in the Quran for Khatim-an _nabeen. Please provide proof otherwise or leave be.

Are you trying to say that Jinnah would have changed his opinion regarding Ahmadis had he lived longer ?? Anything to back up this childish claim ?

As for proof, You are the one claiming that Ahmadis are Non Muslims as per the Holy Quran ... The burden of proof lies with you

 

[Moonlight]

No, it has not been, and cannot be proven through the Holy Quran .. Ahmadis do not reject the Holy Quran (or any verse).. They just have a different interpretation of a term used in the Holy Quran... Please read the Holy Quran yourself before making such claims.

Ok hold on. Quran swears about the finality of Messneger of Allah (saw). And they reject it. So?
Different interpretation of Quran? You know all these scholars and mufti have different interpretations but don't change the meanings of Quran.

Now if you interpret Quran and say according to my interpretation Rasool of Allah (saw) is NOT the last Messneger, then I'm sorry no one is ready to accept your words and will must have words with you.

 

[The Sandman]

only a Muslim can do that. Non Muslims won't have the best interests of Muslims at heart.

That's not right thinking they're Pakistanis too.

No, it has not been, and cannot be proven through the Holy Quran .. Ahmadis do not reject the Holy Quran (or any verse).. They just have a different interpretation of a term used in the Holy Quran... Please read the Holy Quran yourself before making such claims.

No, it has not been, and cannot be proven through the Holy Quran .. Ahmadis do not reject the Holy Quran (or any verse).. They just have a different interpretation of a term used in the Holy Quran... Please read the Holy Quran yourself before making such claims.

I've and so did the rest of the millions of Muslims who understood this and agreed upon this 1 thing what different interpretation you can have of that verse? you can have different words but you can't change the whole meaning of Quran.

 

[SQ8]

No, it has not been, and cannot be proven through the Holy Quran .. Ahmadis do not reject the Holy Quran (or any verse).. They just have a different interpretation of a term used in the Holy Quran... Please read the Holy Quran yourself before making such claims.

Why dont you present it? What is your hesitation. Surah Ahzaab has it clearly, please provide a etymological reference to your claim or forfiet your argument.

I can provide mine. In all Arabic since the pre-Islamic times, the root of the word Khatim is with fianlity, during the times of Prophet it meant the seal. Essentially the seal to close a letter. Hence it has no other possible meanings unless contrived out of thin air or presented to those who are ignorant.

That's not right thinking they're Pakistanis too.



I've and so did the rest of the millions of Muslims who understood this and agreed upon this 1 thing what different interpretation you can have of that verse? you can have different words but you can't change the whole meaning of Quran.

Bet you ten Peanuts he does not and shoots a very differrent tangent that has NOTHING to do with the question.

 

[TMA]

It is important, that we do not do so violently. As basic ijthead would show that during the nacent stages of Islam with people like Musailima it was important to ensure that the new zeal was not lost in these facsimilies. Hence, the campaigns were fought to remove them as it is VERY easy to entrap the ignorant(whom i do not define under rich or poor or even traditional educated types as ignorance is a condition and not a social status)as the TTP, Hizb Ut Tahrir, Jaish and other terrorist and extremist organizations do today.

Today, with Islam and Muslims still generally well established and plenty of them making babies and propogating a generally standard version of Islam(regardless of bloody conflict under political pretext) there is little danger of losing masses of Muslims to such movements.. of which the Qadiyani sect may or may not be one as many others exists throught the geography where Muslims exists.

In such a case, a social boycott vis a vis religious discussion and teachings is the way to go and the is way that is suitable for the current situation if one looks at the life of the Prophet and his closest companions.
That is Ijtehad and a bit of Qiyas with it as well.

One does not need a certiciate from a bunch of bearded folks sitting in some two room "establishment" to do that (save the universities of Cairo, Aligarh, Karachi,Islamabad and Osmania in Hyd India, very few Islamic Departments or institutions in the Muslim world can be considered all encompassing of every scholar or teaching).

Very sensible and appropriate approach given the climate.

 

[SQ8]

Are you trying to say that Jinnah would have changed his opinion regarding Ahmadis had he lived longer ?? Anything to back up this childish claim ?

As for proof, You are the one claiming that Ahmadis are Non Muslims as per the Holy Quran ... The burden of proof lies with you

Absolutley, he changed his opinion on Hindu Muslim unity after experience. Recorded history, that shows his behavior. Would you like a link to Wolpert's birography or that by Fatima Jinnah?

Surah Ahzab
33:40

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Just provided the proof above for the Quran, please do not shoot tangents and now defend your baseless argument. Or will you shoot the usual tangent?

 

[Hamza913]

That's not right thinking they're Pakistanis too.

It is the truth. They won't have the interests of Muslims at heart, therefore it has been Islamically prescribed that we shouldn't do certain things with regards to them, such as let them lead an Islamic nation.

 

[Hyde]

I didn't make up anything, see my earlier reply to another member about the 3rd point.

Yes they shouldn't be persecuted, but when it comes to who can lead a Muslim majority nation, only a Muslim can do that. Non Muslims won't have the best interests of Muslims at heart.

Neither does the Muslim serve them in that case? So they shall continued to be persecuted?

I would be frank with you, see the very cabinet of Pakistan under Liaquat Ali Khan. We had Hindu Minister, Qadiyani Minister and lots of Christian bureaucrats. The nation was lead by a Muslim but it had no signs of discrimination for all.

We need to revive this legacy once again and be faithful to our people. Give them their due rights and trust them equally. The new prime minister of Romania is likely to be Female Muslim so why can't we choose new prime minister a male Hindu? Nothing wrong in it...

 

[TMA]

The Ahmadi's are doing this openly in UK. Now I ask you these questions -

1. Have they damaged you or the Islamic community in UK?
2. What actions have you taken to follow on from (1) to expel them from your neighbourhood?

I would also say that they denigrate Islam by saying that they follow Islam when they do not accept the Son of Abdullah (PBUH) to be the Seal. It is sending a deceptive message out to people, especially non-Muslims.

It would be better if they called themselves by another name, to make clear the difference.

This also reminds me of the time when I was in University and the local Muslims were raising money for a local mosque, of course one needs the permission of the local council. Now there was an issue where the council initially refused saying that there is already a mosque and as the population of Muslims is not that great, another is not needed. The already present mosque was an Ahmaddiya mosque. Obviously it was not going to suffice for the local Muslims. Anyway, the local council were eventually swayed.

 

[SQ8]

Here is a

Neither does the Muslim serve them in that case? So they shall continued to be persecuted?

I would be frank with you, see the very cabinet of Pakistan under Liaquat Ali Khan. We had Hindu Minister, Qadiyani Minister and lots of Christian bureaucrats. The nation was lead by a Muslim but it had no signs of discrimination for all.

We need to revive this legacy once again and be faithful to our people. Give them their due rights and trust me equally. The new prime minister of Romania is likely to be Female Muslim so why can't we choose a new prime minister a male Hindu? Nothing wrong in it...

What we need to do is seperate religion as a qualification from state tasks. Remove the need to list your religion in the first place.

If someone is muslim and wishes to be judged according to Shariat - there will be Shariat courts available - so if you steal as a muslim, you get your hands cut off.

If someone does not identify as muslim, there will be common law available with the intention to use common law announced publicly.

Will massively solve all claims of Muslims and Takfirism in Pakistan

 

[Moonlight]

Why dont you present it? What is your hesitation. Surah Ahzaab has it clearly, please provide a etymological reference to your claim or forfiet your argument.

I can provide mine. In all Arabic since the pre-Islamic times, the root of the word Khatim is with fianlity, during the times of Prophet it meant the seal. Essentially the seal to close a letter. Hence it has no other possible meanings unless contrived out of thin air or presented to those who are ignorant.

Let me do you a favor.

@Azlan Haider this is the statement of Mirza sahib.

 

[Hamza913]

Neither does the Muslim serve them in that case? So they shall continued to be persecuted?

I would be frank with you, see the very cabinet of Pakistan under Liaquat Ali Khan. We had Hindu Minister, Qadiyani Minister and lots of Christian bureaucrats. The nation was lead by a Muslim but it had no signs of discrimination for all.

We need to revive this legacy once again and be faithful to our people. Give them their due rights and trust me equally. The new prime minister of Romania is likely to be Female Muslim so why can't we choose a new prime minister a male Hindu? Nothing wrong in it...

The Muslim doesn't serve them because it's a Muslim nation. His priority is for the Muslims.

I don't care whose cabinet had what, if it contradicts Islam then I won't roll with it.

That female Muslim is committing a sin. Blunt truth.