Pashto words in Urdu

[Avra]

Very interesting but not sufficient. There are many other actual pashto words used in urdu are not mentioned like tsatang or tsatal (chatna) pael (pehl) tsaka (chakna) pélwan (pehlwan) garhaei or garhyal (the words are used for watch n clock respectively n are derived from 'grhanj' meaning ringing in pashto). Lagédanna, lagédang or in modern pashto lagedal.

 

[icebreaker2]

Pashtuns have ruled Northern India for centuries , either as independent Sultans, nawabs, or as officers , jagirdars under Turks and Mughals. Deep research has proved that many Pashto words have come into Urdu. In this thread i will share information about such words......

I take it you identify as a Pashtun. Pashtuns were never conquerors and have mostly been conquered. They came to positions of power in Indus-gangetic plane mostly because they came along with the conquerors and not as conquerors. Secondly most of their descendants are not 'pashtuns' of Khyber pakhtunkhuwa but people who identify as urdu speaking in Pakistan and as pashtun origin populations in India and to a limited extent in Pakistani Punjab and sindh. I am one of them and their history belongs more to me than you as I am their direct ancestor. Just clarifying

 

[Mian Babban]

Secondly most of their descendants are not 'pashtuns' of Khyber pakhtunkhuwa but people who identify as urdu speaking in Pakistan and as pashtun origin populations in India and to a limited extent in Pakistani Punjab and sindh. I am one of them and their history belongs more to me than you as I am their direct ancestor. Just clarifying

MQM-ism and Mohajir-ism of Karachi has nothing to do with Rohillas/Pashtuns of 18th century who were freshly arrived settlers from upper districts of KP. The "Rohilla" identity ceased to exist when they completely lost Pashto language and culture in 19th century. Thats why you wont hear any more about "Rohilla" in second half of 19th century. This has been clarified by the British authors of those times.

Secondly the majority of the ones calling themselves "Pathanis" in Karachi who are associated with MQM, are fake ones and are not descendants of Pashtuns. Saulat Mirza of MQM for example turned from Mirza to Yousafzai at convenience in an interview. In 1947, the low castes migrants from India registered themselves witrh fake castes of Pathan, Mughal, Syed, Sabzawari, Mashadi, Sherazi etc etc

Thirdly , Rohillas kept "chelas" who were their Hindustani slaves (converted Hindus). Chelas also carried Khan surnames and were identified as Rohillas by others due to their masters. Big chunk of Khans in Rohilkhand are descendants of Chelas.

 

[Avra]

I take it you identify as a Pashtun. Pashtuns were never conquerors and have mostly been conquered. They came to positions of power in Indus-gangetic plane mostly because they came along with the conquerors and not as conquerors. Secondly most of their descendants are not 'pashtuns' of Khyber pakhtunkhuwa but people who identify as urdu speaking in Pakistan and as pashtun origin populations in India and to a limited extent in Pakistani Punjab and sindh. I am one of them and their history belongs more to me than you as I am their direct ancestor. Just clarifying

"Pashtun were never conquerors they were with conquerors" can you actually prove that? Your confidence for such a flat out lie amuses me. The Afghan dynasty is comprised of Pashtun (ethinic Afghans) conquerors of India.
The Durrani tribe of Durrani dynasty, Lodi tribe(it's not lodhi btw) of Lodi dynasty of Multan, Lagah, Sadozai and Babai tribes of Lagah Sadozai and Babai dynasty belonged to Southern areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The tribes are still there and speak Pashto.
Khshegi tribe of Khshegi dynasty, Orakzai of Kurwai dynasty, Barakzai of Barakzai dynasty, Suri rulers, Shinwari of Durrani and Rohilla nawabs belong to the Nothern tribes of Kpk and Afghanistan. And still live there. All of them were Pashtun and still are.
Khushal khan khattak is known for his poetry in pashto language. Pashtuns love his poetry in which he speaks of Pashtun (afghan) ancestors and the tribes of the entire Pashtun nation their (these) conquerors and conquests and rule. And to speak of the second part of your statement; Sassanids, Greeks and Macedonians, Arabs, Mongols, British, Russians and Americans would beg to differ. But let's humour you and let us say that we would love to know about the conquerors who'd actually conquered the Pashtuns, from you.
Like many other Pakistanis and Indians who lack the basic knowlege of Pashtun history, you think that "Pashtana or Pukhtana" belong only to kpk. Let me clearify it to you that the Pashtuns originally belong to the west of Afghanistan and south Pakistan and east of Iran and have originated from Pahlavi tribe of ancient Iran. Some of the tribes of Nothern areas are actually subtribes of Sothern Pashtun tribes. For e.g Shinwarai is subtribe of Durranai.
As for you and other Pakistanis and Indians being decendant of those conquerors is highly debateable. What are the odds that it can be accepted without genetical proof? None to none. I've seen alot of urdu speaking people who call themselves baig and pasha and claim themselves to be Turks. Without any genetical proof nobody would believe that.
I beleive you are one confused person who doesn't know anything about Afghan dynasty. First you stated that those conquerors were not Pashtuns and then you said Pashtun origin Indians are their direct decendants. Like seriosly? Make up your mind pal.

 

[Mian Babban]

"Pashtun were never conquerors they were with conquerors" can you actually prove that? Your confidence for such a flat out lie amuses me. The Afghan dynasty is comprised of Pashtun (ethinic Afghans) conquerors of India.
The Durrani tribe of Durrani dynasty, Lodi tribe(it's not lodhi btw) of Lodi dynasty of Multan, Lagah, Sadozai and Babai tribes of Lagah Sadozai and Babai dynasty belonged to Southern areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The tribes are still there and speak Pashto.
Khshegi tribe of Khshegi dynasty, Orakzai of Kurwai dynasty, Barakzai of Barakzai dynasty, Suri rulers, Shinwari of Durrani and Rohilla nawabs belong to the Nothern tribes of Kpk and Afghanistan. And still live there. All of them were Pashtun and still are.
Sher shah suri is known for his poetry in pashto language. Pashtuns love his poetry in which he speaks of Pashtun (afghan) ancestors and the tribes of the entire Pashtun nation their conquests and rule. And to speak of the second part of your statement; Sassanids, Greeks and Macedonians, Arabs, Mongols, British, Russians and Americans would beg to differ. But let's humour you and let us say that we would love to know about the conquerors who'd actually conquered the Pashtuns, from you.
Like many other Pakistanis and Indians who lack the basic knowlege of Pashtun history, you think that "Pashtana or Pukhtana" belong only to kpk. Let me clearify it to you that the Pashtuns originally belong to the west of Afghanistan and south Pakistan and east of Iran and have originated from Pahlavi tribe of ancient Iran. Some of the tribes of Nothern areas are actually subtribes of Sothern Pashtun tribes. For e.g Shinwarai is subtribe of Durranai.
As for you and other Pakistanis and Indians being decendant of those conquerors is highly debateable. What are the odds that it can be accepted without genetical proof? None to none. I've seen alot of urdu speaking people who call themselves baig and pasha and claim themselves to be Turks. Without any genetical proof nobody would believe that.
I beleive you are one confused person who doesn't know anything about Afghan dynasty. First you stated that those conquerors were not Pashtuns and then you said Pashtun origin Indians are their direct decendants. Like seriosly? Make up your mind pal.

I know his previous ID, Karachiite or some thing .....a strong MQM supporter living in Canada , claiming to be a "Pathan" , descendant of Yousafzais, yet having disgust and hostility for Pashtuns (Pashto speakers) living in Karachi. Just few days ago some MQM-wala on twitter, claiming to be a Pathan from Naghar tribe, replied in response to my tweet on Sher Shah that "you wasli (?) Pashtuns have nothing to do with Sher Shah, the sons of Sher Shah are in our Mohajir community".........Another such weirdo on facebook, claiming to be a Daudzai from India, was strongly insisting that traditional dress of Daudzais of Peshawar should be dhoti as people in his UP's village wear dhoti not shalwar kameez.....on the same post, another Indian Pathan responded that the villagers of the one claiming to be Daudzai are not genuine Pathans. Confused and cringy bunch

 

[icebreaker2]

I know his previous ID, Karachiite or some thing .....a strong MQM supporter living in Canada , claiming to be a "Pathan" , descendant of Yousafzais, yet having disgust and hostility for Pashtuns (Pashto speakers) living in Karachi. Just few days ago some MQM-wala on twitter, claiming to be a Pathan from Naghar tribe, replied in response to my tweet on Sher Shah that "you wasli (?) Pashtuns have nothing to do with Sher Shah, the sons of Sher Shah are in our Mohajir community".........Another such weirdo on facebook, claiming to be a Daudzai from India, was strongly insisting that traditional dress of Daudzais of Peshawar should be dhoti as people in his UP's village wear dhoti not shalwar kameez.....on the same post, another Indian Pathan responded that the villagers of the one claiming to be Daudzai are not genuine Pathans. Confused and cringy bunch

Buddy, firstly I am not a mqm supporter so get that in your head and I have no hostility to any language speakers in Pakistan. Every Pakistani is dear to me. Secondly the reason i have new i.d. is because i lost the password of the first one and could not recover it. Funny you claim to know my heritage when you know nothing about me. I don't only have pathan heritage but also turik and arab heritage. So do many people who identify as urdu speaking in Pakistan and many muslims in indus-gangetic plain. Many pathans migrated from resource poor places you live in to the plain over the centuries. Yes Sher shah suri family had been living in the indus-gangetic (around delhi and bihar) plain for two generations and he himself was born in Bihar. His descendants continue to live in India and in Pakistan identify as urdu speaking and have nothing to do with pathans in KPK just like the masssive no. of pahans living in Punjab like Imran khan, jhamgir tareen etc. identify as punjabis of pashtun ethnicity. Pathans have moved from the resource poor region over the centuries to the most fertile plain in the world and over the time they no longer associate with the tribals living in KPK and Afghanistan. That is the truth and you need to deal with it

 

[Mian Babban]

over the time they no longer associate with the tribals living in KPK and Afghanistan.

Its because they are no longer Pashtuns just like Qureshis, Syeds, Hashmis etc of Indo-Pak are no longer Arabs

 

[icebreaker2]

MQM-ism and Mohajir-ism of Karachi has nothing to do with Rohillas/Pashtuns of 18th century who were freshly arrived settlers from upper districts of KP. The "Rohilla" identity ceased to exist when they completely lost Pashto language and culture in 19th century. Thats why you wont hear any more about "Rohilla" in second half of 19th century. This has been clarified by the British authors of those times.

Secondly the majority of the ones calling themselves "Pathanis" in Karachi who are associated with MQM, are fake ones and are not descendants of Pashtuns. Saulat Mirza of MQM for example turned from Mirza to Yousafzai at convenience in an interview. In 1947, the low castes migrants from India registered themselves witrh fake castes of Pathan, Mughal, Syed, Sabzawari, Mashadi, Sherazi etc etc

Thirdly , Rohillas kept "chelas" who were their Hindustani slaves (converted Hindus). Chelas also carried Khan surnames and were identified as Rohillas by others due to their masters. Big chunk of Khans in Rohilkhand are descendants of Chelas.

No moron they have everything to do with their decedents (many of whom identify as muhajir) and nothing to do with you and your kind who like to glorify their pathetic culture less savage tribal existence.


"The "Rohilla" identity ceased to exist when they completely lost Pashto language and culture in 19th century. That's why you wont hear any more about "Rohilla" in second half of 19th century."

Well that stands true not just for this batch of Pathans but all pathans, turik, persian and arab dewellers of the region. The muslims of these regions were mainly responsible for creating a central muslim identity in Indian subcontinent which led to the creation of Pakistan. This reinforces my point. Secondly, the identity was created by people of Rohilla and never completely ceased to exist why don't you ask people who inherited this identity rather than making absurd claims

Mirza Ghalib was of mongol and Turik descent so was Syed ahmed khan, so were the mughals who do you think claims their heritage, moron? people living on Amu darya. Stop trying to claim other peoples heritage you tribal savage and don't try to demean their great heritage by making absurd claims like their heritage is fake. Their family histories are well recorded and well known. They do not identify with tribal savages like you and their ancestors stooped doing that a long time ago including the ancestors of lodhis, sher shah suri and Rohillas. Deal with this fact and stop insulting other people just because the truth does not line up with your narrative.

"Chelas also carried Khan surnames and were identified as Rohillas by others due to their masters. Big chunk of Khans in Rohilkhand are descendants of Chela" hahaha no 'chelas' caried their surname if you knew anything about how people lived their lives in that region you won't make such absurd claims.

My heritage is from one of the ruling classes of Rohilkand i.e Rampur state and my ancestors were people in important place of power within state machinery both from my grandfather and grand mothers side. Don't make claims about saulat mirza's ancestry when you know nothing about him. Where do you think all the people of pathan descent went after coming to indus-gangetic plains back to your resource poor tribal land to live with the savages? Their descendants live in the millions in India and Pakistan areas out if KPK

 

[Mian Babban]

My heritage is from one of the ruling classes of Rohilkand i.e Rampur state and my ancestors were people in important place of power within state machinery both from my grandfather and grand mothers side.

The rulers of Rampur, the family of Ali Muhammad Khan Rohilla, were Jats by origin. Daud Khan, a run away slave from Pakhtunkhwa, adopted an eight year old Jat boy as his son and named him Ali Muhammad Khan.

 

[icebreaker2]

The rulers of Rampur, the family of Ali Muhammad Khan Rohilla, were Jats by origin. Daud Khan, a run away slave from Pakhtunkhwa, adopted an eight year old Jat boy as his son and named him Ali Muhammad Khan.

Firstly stop reading bs history from barmazid. Secondly Rohillkand was confederation of different Pathan tribes settled in the region who banded together to form Rohilkand. My grandfathers ancestors were from Razzar sub tribe of Yousafzais and not descendants of Daud Khan.

 

[Mian Babban]

Firstly stop reading bs history from barmazid. Secondly Rohillkand was confederation of different Pathan tribes settled in the region who banded together to form Rohilkand. My grandfathers ancestors were from Razzar sub tribe of Yousafzais and not descendants of Daud Khan.

I was pointing out that there were also large number of Indians who got identified as Rohilllas in 18th century. I have already mentioned "chelas".

 

[icebreaker2]

I was pointing out that there were also large number of Indians who got identified as Rohilllas in 18th century. I have already mentioned "chelas".

There were alot of intermarriages among the so called 'ashrafi' class (mostly people of turik,mongol, pathan,persian, mongol, arab, and muslims of 'higher' hindu heritage like rajput (former nobility)etc.) among Muslims in Indian subcontinent. People did not marry people who did not belong to this class. People who traced their male ancestor from a pathan tribe call themselves rohilla and the rest claimed their own heritage from their male ancestors. My grandmother was of Turik & arab descent highly respected by the nawabs as religious figures and were descendants of Hazrat Umar (with heavy pathan ancestory). No one married people into people of lower casts of muslim origin. It was a very classicist society even more so than modern day Pakistan. Would you marry daughter of your house maid?

Secondly as I have made it very clear to you. You are not the direct inheritor of the legacy of Lodhi's, Sher shah suri or any other pathan population in Indus-gangetic plain. Their descendants are and they have a separate and much richer cultural heritage than you and more proud of their ancestors then you are. So why don't you stop leeching on to their legacy and talk about your own legacy of petty tribal warfare

 

[Mian Babban]

Secondly as I have made it very clear to you. You are not the direct inheritor of the legacy of Lodhi's, Sher shah suri or any other pathan population in Indus-gangetic plain. Their descendants are and they have a separate and much richer cultural heritage than you and more proud of their ancestors then you are. So why don't you stop leeching on to their legacy and talk about your own legacy of petty tribal warfare

No one in India can trace his lineage to Sher Shah or Lodi Sultans because their descendants ceased to be Afghans when they lost Pashto language and culture or any other affiliation, and when they lost 'Pashtun character'. They are two basic requisites for being Pashtun, 1-Speaking Pashto, 2- Doing Pashto . There were Pashtun pockets in India who were no longer speaking Pashto as mother tongue but retained the Pashtun identity for quite some time as they were still largely Pashtun in character and were connected with Pakhtunkhwa through horse trade and common interests (e.g Kasur). Niazis of Mianwali and Pannis of Sibi are still Pashtun by outlook and character even though they dont speak Pashto, and they have clans system and customs of Pashtuns. In Baluchistan, those clans of Pashtuns who have lost Pashto, and affiliate themeselves with Balochs, are recognized as Balochs (e.g Raisanis) and those Balochized tribes who affiliate themeselves with Pashtuns politically and in every other aspect, are recognized as Pashtuns (e.g Zarkuns of Kohlu). But the fake Pathanis amongst Urdu speakers in Karachi have nothing to do with all this. They have nothing to do with us or our historical figures. Their baba-i-qaum is Altaf Hussain.

I am from Lohani branch of Lodi tribe and the way i see it, its an Indian like you who has nothing to do with our rulers from Lodi and Sur tribes. The only connection you have with them , is religion. About the Rohillas, i have already clarified that identity completely ceased to exist in later half of 19th century.

. My grandmother was of Turik & arab descent highly respected by the nawabs as religious figures and were descendants of Hazrat Umar (with heavy pathan ancestory). No one married people into people of lower casts of muslim origin. It was a very classicist society even more so than modern day Pakistan. Would you marry daughter of your house maid?

These are tall claims but are not based on facts. Pashtuns in India did not give their daughters to the so called low-castes but their men freely married low-caste women including Hindus so that within few generations they looked like any other Indians. For example mother of Sikandar Lodi was a low-caste Hindu (from Goldsmith caste). After continuously marrying Indian women, they became Indians just like Mughals became Indians after generations. Nothing wrong with it as caste system does not exist in Islam.

Another confused person like you is @haviZsultan

 

[Vishvamitra]

No one in India can trace his lineage to Sher Shah or Lodi Sultans because their descendants ceased to be Afghans when they lost Pashto language and culture or any other affiliation, and when they lost 'Pashtun character'. They are two basic requisites for being Pashtun, 1-Speaking Pashto, 2- Doing Pashto . There were Pashtun pockets in India who were no longer speaking Pashto as mother tongue but retained the Pashtun identity for quite some time as they were still largely Pashtun in character and were connected with Pakhtunkhwa through horse trade and common interests (e.g Kasur). Niazis of Mianwali and Pannis of Sibi are still Pashtun by outlook and character even though they dont speak Pashto, and they have clans system and customs of Pashtuns. In Baluchistan, those clans of Pashtuns who have lost Pashto, and affiliate themeselves with Balochs, are recognized as Balochs (e.g Raisanis) and those Balochized tribes who affiliate themeselves with Pashtuns politically and in every other aspect, are recognized as Pashtuns (e.g Zarkuns of Kohlu). But the fake Pathanis amongst Urdu speakers in Karachi have nothing to do with all this. They have nothing to do with us or our historical figures. Their baba-i-qaum is Altaf Hussain.

I am from Lohani branch of Lodi tribe and the way i see it, its an Indian like you who has nothing to do with our rulers from Lodi and Sur tribes. The only connection you have with them , is religion. About the Rohillas, i have already clarified that identity completely ceased to exist in later half of 19th century.


These are tall claims but are not based on facts. Pashtuns in India did not give their daughters to the so called low-castes but their men freely married low-caste women including Hindus so that within few generations they looked like any other Indians. For example mother of Sikandar Lodi was a low-caste Hindu (from Goldsmith caste). After continuously marrying Indian women, they became Indians just like Mughals became Indians after generations. Nothing wrong with it as caste system does not exist in Islam.

Another confused person like you is @haviZsultan

Saif ali khan is direct descender of Lodhi royal dynasty AFAIK.

 

[icebreaker2]

No one in India can trace his lineage to Sher Shah or Lodi Sultans because their descendants ceased to be Afghans when they lost Pashto language and culture or any other affiliation, and when they lost 'Pashtun character'. They are two basic requisites for being Pashtun, 1-Speaking Pashto, 2- Doing Pashto . There were Pashtun pockets in India who were no longer speaking Pashto as mother tongue but retained the Pashtun identity for quite some time as they were still largely Pashtun in character and were connected with Pakhtunkhwa through horse trade and common interests (e.g Kasur). The Urdu speakers in Karachi who call themselves Pathanis, have nothing to do Pashtuns or their historical figures. Their baba-i-qaum is Altaf Hussain.

I am from Lohani branch of Lodi tribe and the way i see it, its an Indian like you who has nothing to do with our rulers from Lodi and Sur tribes. The only connection you have with them , is religion. About the Rohillas, i have already clarified that identity completely ceased to exist in later half of 19th century.


These are tall claims but are not based on facts. Pashtuns in India did not give their daughters to the so called low-castes but their men freely married low-caste women including Hindus so that within few generations they looked like any other Indians. For example mother of Sikandar Lodi was a low-caste Hindu (from Goldsmith caste)

Hahaha as if you know. Lodhi's, Sher shah suri etc. and their descendents were not part of any tribal pashtun culture like your's and changed their life style centuries ago. Their descendants don't identify with your pathetic lifestyle and neither did they. They were part and parcel of ashrafi culture in India along with people of turik descent and looked down on tribals like you. That's why their descendants evolved Urdu and created Pakistan. They do not and never did consider you equal. How dare you call me Indian, tribal pashtun? My ancestors built this country, how can you have a claim on it when i don't. If you don't like Pakistan why don't you join your opmium addicted brothers in Afghanistan.

Again with your claim you are making up absolute bullshit. I already told you how the ashrafis married in medieval India and it is a historical fact and well recorded. They kept no connections with tribal like you.

Buddy these are not tall claims. From my fathers side family of my grandfather is from the family of nawabs of Hyderabad deccan who are siddiqis of turik descent, grandmother(fathers side) is from the paigha family (prime ministers to nawabs of hyderabad) and syeds of turik descent. From mothers side my grandmother's grandfather was a renowned scholar and maulana shibli Nomani was one of his students. His name was also mentioned by him recorded in matric book in Pakistan some time ago. My maternal grandfather's grandfather was the chief military(police) officer of Rampur state.

Here's some history on bhalul lodhi. He had nothing to do with you tribals and was part of ashrafi culture in medieval India

Bahlul Lodi
Bahlul Khan Lodi (r.1451–89) was the nephew and son-in-law of Malik Sultan Shah Lodi, the governor of Sirhind in (Punjab), India and succeeded him as the governor of Sirhind during the reign of Sayyid dynasty ruler Muhammad Shah (Muhammad-bin-Farid). Muhammad Shah raised him to the status of an emir. He was the most powerful of the Punjab chiefs and a vigorous leader, holding together a loose confederacy of Afghan and Turkish chiefs with his strong personality.[3] He reduced the turbulent chiefs of the provinces to submission and infused some vigour into the government.[citation needed] After the last Sayyid ruler of Delhi, Ala-ud-Din Aalm Shah voluntarily abdicated in favour of him, Bahlul Khan Lodi ascended the throne of the Delhi sultanate on 19 April 1451.[4] The most important event of his reign was the conquest of Jaunpur.[citation needed] Bahlul spent most of his time in fighting against the Sharqi dynasty and ultimately annexed it. He placed his eldest surviving son Barbak on the throne of Jaunpur in 1486.[citation needed]