Parrikar - FGFA and MRTA in trouble

[dadeechi]

Parrikar going to Russia to finalise deals for Modi to sign in December

Likely to press his Russian counterparts to ensure high serviceablitiy of the Su-30MKI through reliable supply of spare parts when he visits Moscow on November 2
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi October 30, 2015 Last Updated at 00:23 IST


Defence minister Manohar Parrikar, on the eve of his departure to Russia, says he hopes to "prepare some [contracts for signing during] Prime Minister Narendra Modi's annual summit visit to Russia in December.
In an interview on Thursday to Russian news agency ITAR-TASS, Parrikar said: "(F)or example, the project for joint production of Kamov Ka-226 helicopters. I hope to use my visit to have it inked on paper when the prime minister arrives. Also the purchase of S-400 missile systems. We anticipate these projects to be coordinated by next month."

Although he did not state this during his interview, ITAR-TASS is reporting on its website that "Russia (is) to lease another nuclear sub(marine) to India in December".
In 2012, India had leased a 12,000-tonne Akula-class nuclear-powered attack submarine, the INS Chakra, for a ten-year period for $900 million. At that time, then defence minister, AK Antony, had confirmed that negotiations were under way for a second nuclear submarine.
The Kamov-226T is a 3.5 tonne, two-pilot, light helicopter that is specially modified with a new engine for Indian requirements, primarily high-altitude operations along the Himalayan borders.
At their last summit meeting in New Delhi in January, President Vladimir Putin had personally requested the Indian prime minister for Russian Helicopters to be awarded a contract for building 197 Kamov-226T reconnaissance and observation helicopters in India.
This will be built under the "Make in India" initiative. The Indian partner is being decided and is likely to either be Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) or Reliance Defence.
The S-400, known in Russia as Triumf, is an extremely potent, long-range, ground-to-air defence system that is used to protect area targets from missiles that are fired from 40-400 kilometres away.
Parrikar also said he would press Russia hard for ensuring a high serviceability of Sukhoi-30MKI (Su-30MKI) fighter jets, through a smooth and reliable supply of spare parts and systems. There is concern within the Indian Air Force (IAF) that its Su-30MKI fleet, which will eventually comprise of 272 fighters, has had serviceability rates as low as 45 to 50 per cent.
Parrikar told TASS: "We have almost 220 of them (Su-30MKI) now and ultimately the number will reach 270, which represents about 40 per cent of IAF. When you have 40 per cent of air force strength from a particular maker, you are obviously interested in ensuring that they are serviced properly. Those aspects will be discussed and we are coming to conclusions, to solutions to the problem. I hope that these problems will be resolved very soon so service operation is substantially enhanced."
The proposal for India and Russia to co-develop two major aircraft - the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft (MRTA) - has been in trouble for some time. Parrikar spelt out the problems in both projects.
"As for the FGFA, negotiations will proceed further and we have halted ourselves to establish things clear in our minds. But with the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft, there are serious issues needing clarification, let me be frank. There are some serious observations which need to be clarified and reviewed properly," said the Indian defence minister.
Finally, Parrikar revealed that the IAF intended to finalise the purchase from Russian Helicopters of another 48 Mi-17V-5 helicopters, consolidating its position as the workhorse of the IAF fleet. With this purchase, the IAF will be operating some 280 Mi-17 helicopters.
Parrikar will leave for Moscow and St Petersburg on October 30, and will meet his Russian counterpart in Moscow on November 2. Later that day, he will leave for a three-day visit to Malaysia, to attend the ASEAN Defence Ministers Meeting Plus. Late on Thursday evening, a meeting of the apex Defence Acquisition Council cleared a clutch of acquisitions: four 3,500-tonne multi-purpose vessels (MPVs) for the navy for duties like towing targets and tugs, for a cost of Rs 700 each; two Deep Submergence Rescue Vessels (DSRVs) for deep-sea rescue for Rs 750 crore each; 149 BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles to be built in India for Rs 924 crore; two Pinaka multi-barrel rocket regiments for Rs 3,300 crore; and the upgrade of IL-76 and IL-78 aircraft for Rs 4,300 crore.

Parrikar going to Russia to finalise deals for Modi to sign in December | Business Standard News

 

[dadeechi]

Indian Defense Minister: I have always seen Russia as an all-weather friend for India

Indian Defense Minister: I have always seen Russia as an all-weather friend for India
Military & Defense
October 29, 17:11 UTC+3
Manohar Parrikar spoke about Indo-Russian joint defense projects in an exclusive interview with TASS
Material has 1 page

Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar
© EPA/FRANCK ROBICHON
Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar, arriving in Moscow on Friday for an Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation, spoke in an exclusive interview with TASS about Indo-Russian joint defense projects.
- Which issues will you raise with your Russian counterparts at the meeting?
- I will put it like this. I have been reading about Russia since my childhood — Sputnik and all those magazines. Somehow they were delivered to my residence when I was at school and college long back. I have always seen Russia as an all-weather friend for India — the two countries have always had a great relationship. I believe that this relationship should be enhanced. My visit to Moscow will be an attempt to help the relationship blossom further. There are many issues that can always be in such relationships, and I think the best way is to have them resolved. I see a certain enthusiasm to resolve them from both sides as well as possibilities to involve Russia in the “Make it in India” program.
- You’ve mentioned the “Make it in India” program launched by the Indian government to transform the country into a global manufacturing hub. Are there any joint projects between our countries as part of this program which are already taking shape?
- They may not take final shape during my visit but we’d like to prepare some of them for Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Russia in December — for example, the project for joint production of Kamov Ka-226 helicopters. I hope to use my visit to have it inked on paper when the prime minister arrives. Also the purchase of S-400 missile systems. We anticipate these projects to be coordinated by next month.
There are also proposals for small private-sector companies interested in tying up with Russian companies to manufacture spares. Our industry representatives visited Russia in September and I think they have come up with a few proposals. I would in fact be raising the issue that since India depends much on Russian platforms, spares supplies in the future could make the use of these platform easier. Some of the key components would be manufactured in India under this “Make it in India” program. I expect some movement on that also.

© Sergey Bobylev
India clears $1.1bn contract for 48 Russian-built Mi-17-V5 helicopters
- What kind of spares?
- For Su-30MKI fighter jets. We have almost 220 of them now and ultimately the number will reach 270, which represents about 40% of Indian Air Force. When you have 40% of air force strength from a particular maker, you are obviously interested in ensuring that they are serviced properly. Those aspects will be discussed and we are coming to conclusions, to solutions to the problem. I hope that these problems will be resolved very soon so service operation is substantially enhanced.
Then there are Mi-17V-5 helicopters, which we also intend to negotiate and finalize procurement for 48 more. With that, we will have some 280 Mi-17 helicopters.
- Did I understand you clearly that a Mi-17 deal could also be finalized by the prime minister`s visit?
- Maybe. I am not very sure because it is still being coordinated but we have already decided to buy them.

- Do you think private Indian shipyards are ready, technically, for projects with Russia under the ‘Make it in India’ program? How much time will it take to equip them for implementation of future projects?
- Since you have to begin somewhere, I think they are in a much better condition than they were a couple of years ago. Whenever upgrade takes place, the technical partner, the Russian partner, will have to provide some technical aid to the shipyard. I think they are ready for upgrading. The very logic of “Make it in India” is to ensure that smooth supplies result in better performance. In the long term it helps the country which supplies the platform.
- How long will it take to start the process of shipyards` upgrading and launch the helicopter joint venture?
- I will tell my target. All the negotiations and paperwork should be completed during the current financial year. Actual implementation can start in the next financial year.
Next steps depend on the private companies set to work on these projects in India. We are trying to speed up procedures from our side. So there will be an attempt to ensure that during the current financial year, i.e. by March, things are all tied up properly.
- Do you see a frank and honest reaction from the Russian side while raising your concerns on joint projects?
- I believe that, because I am from Goa and I saw lots of Russian tourists coming there and from whatever small interaction I had with them I believe that Russia is one place where people are straightforward. They speak what is in their mind. It is easier to deal with such people and easier to sort out the issues.
- What is the state of progress on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft and Multi-Role Transport Aircraft development program?
- As for the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), negotiations will proceed further and we have halted ourselves to establish things clear in our minds. But with the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft, there are serious issues needing clarification, let me be frank. There are some serious observations which need to be clarified and reviewed properly.

© ITAR-TASS/Vladimir Sayapin
Russia to lease another nuclear sub to India in December
- How much time can it take to make the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft if all goes as scheduled?
- I cannot say because we are currently at the design stage. I have directed my officers to commence the negotiations as early as possible and close the first stage so that we can proceed further.
- Do you see more areas in which Russia and India can set up joint ventures?
- Many more. I am very positive about it. Indo-Russian relations are not only of friendship but more of a strategic relationship, continuing from the 1970s. I hope to ensure that this relationship continues. There can be many more issues on which we can collaborate.
Alexander Antipin, TASS correspondent, New Delhi.

TASS: Military & Defense - Indian Defense Minister: I have always seen Russia as an all-weather friend for India

 

[Bang Galore]

Also the purchase of S-400 missile systems. We anticipate these projects to be coordinated by next month.

The first official confirmation of this proposal. If he is anticipating it to be "coordinated" (whatever that means) by next month, talks must already be at an advanced stage.

 

[dadeechi]

The first official confirmation of this proposal. If he is anticipating it to be "coordinated" (whatever that means) by next month, talks must already be at an advanced stage.

Yes. I agree. It seemed liked he did not want to reveal everything and wanted some surprise news to be available for Modi's visit but the FGFA & MRTA confirmation is very disappointing. No mention of PAK-FA purchase either.

 

[Jai Bharat]

Called it. Still feel the same way. Russia has some great technology they can sell us like S-400 and nuclear submarines, but Indian Army is no longer in a sanctioned position and can choose other systems from a variety of eager players. No reason to favour Russia exclusively.

IAF has not even had the chance to test drive a T-50 yet, and technology is being kept a secret from DRDO scientists, hence the delay in next contract signing.

If it turns out to be a lemon, they are not going to get it. IAF is definitely a stubborn organization compared to Navy. If they don't like it, they won't go for it. F-35 or joint development for Japanese 5th gen might be a possibility. Re-purposing the AMCA to replace FGFA and then inducting more Rafales for strike fighters might be a possibility. As I understand it, the AMCA fulfilled a similar role to the Rafale/Jaguar strike fighers, the LCA to the MiG-21 interceptors, and the FGFA to the Su-30 air superiority. In future is it not possible to go LCA, Rafale, AHCA "heavy AMCA"?

I am beginning to become rather sceptical about both. They are behind schedule and the lack of any noise about the MRTA is worrying. IAF has yet to even fly the T-50, and the new engine is still only on paper. Russia is on a tight budget now as well, unlikely to spend anything beyond what India would devote to the project, and we would be entirely sponsoring Russian defence industry, which is a complete waste.

Since neither major contract has been signed with either, it might still be possible to go for something else. Medium transport jets are abundant in the market. If no major ToT is offered, then deal should be scrapped imo. Boeing has made a number of comments about expanding their presence in Indian aerospace. I suspect they are seeking to snatch this deal with their own offer from the Russians if nothing major happens soon. Also need to factor in that US is very determined to crush Russian industry and economy right now, and is/will push hard for any moves that weaken their arms exports.

 

[migflug]

So no pak fa. Instead we are looking for official confirmation of s400+k 322. I hope modi sort out pak fa like rafale saga. This trip will provide huge cash for russians : helis like mi17,k226, , nuke sub on lease, bmp2, some clarification on s400+pak fa+MTA, another talwar frigates

Long live indo Russia friendship

 

[dadeechi]

Called it. Still feel the same way. Russia has some great technology they can sell us like S-400 and nuclear submarines, but Indian Army is no longer in a sanctioned position and can choose other systems from a variety of eager players. No reason to favour Russia exclusively.

But who is going to offer JV deal on 5th gen plane? without no ToT on RAFALE and no FGFA, AMCA is not going to fly anytime some. It could take decades.

 

[kaykay]

Why FGFA in trouble? I think he is trying to break the deadlock. Should be seen as a positive move and it may come out to be a positive news too.

 

[Jai Bharat]

But who is going to offer JV deal on 5th gen plane? without no ToT on RAFALE and no FGFA, AMCA is not going to fly anytime some. It could take decades.

I think it is high time we start taking some 'liberties' with imported products. Tejas definitely had major influence from Mirage 2000, and I believe we will see the same between Rafale/AMCA.

Although manufacturing techniques will be hidden, the systems and integration of the Rafale could be used to greatly further and boost AMCA design, not to mention LCA experience will definitely speed up the process. A good place to start would be completing funding for $2 billion in AMCA design. I believe what is holding us back from doing so right now is lack of clarity on FGFA.

Either way, we do indeed have a good +10 years before Indian Air Force really needs to replace the medium combat aircraft.

Light Interceptors/Ground attack
MiG - til 2016/18/20 - Replace with LCA Tejas

Medium 'Multirole' /Deep Airstrike Fighter
Mirage 2000 - til 2030 - Replace with AMCA
Jaguar - til 2030 - Replace with AMCA
Rafale - til 2050 - Replace with ???

Heavy Fighter/ Air Superiority
Super Su-30MKI - til 2050 - Replace with FGFA (?)

Unles IAF changes their Light-Medium-Heavy aircraft doctrine, 2030 is the real turning point for the medium category. If AMCA prototypes and operational clearances can role out before 2025, and start serial production and FOC before 2030, then HAL/DRDO certainly have the time to finish and make a 5th generation fighter. Rafale will fly in by 2018, and will certainly influence and help development if needed. If AMCA can be finished, then I don't see why we can't make a heavier air-superiority fighter to replace Super Su-30MKI with something indigenous instead of FGFA by 2050.

 

[dadeechi]

Why FGFA in trouble? I think he is trying to break the deadlock. Should be seen as a positive move and it may come out to be a positive news too.

You may be correct but these negotiations can go either way and as we know how the prolonged & never ending RAFALE negotiations are panning out.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

FGFA in trouble? Well he says our side is trying hard to complete the negotiations. I see it as a positive move.

Yes MTA is definitely in problem.

 

[kaykay]

You may be correct but these negotiations can go either way and as we know how the prolonged & never ending RAFALE negotiations are panning out.

That true and thats precisely why govt have to make up its mind, either this way or another. Never ending negotiations made Rafale redundant and govt cut short it for good and I wish UPA would have taken a decision years back either for or against as then we would look for other alternatives. I am happy that finally govt is not pursuing FGFA the Rafale way and there will be a decision either positive or negative.

 

[Perpendicular]

directed my officers to commence the negotiations as early as possible and close the first stage so that we can proceed further.

He clearly pressed for negotiations to start soon as possible which articulates that designing process is almost done. So something positive i guess.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Parrikar is determined to go down in history as India's worst defence minister. First the MMRCA deal was cancelled, now the FGFA is in trouble. Is the IAF supposed to fight with flying kites?

 

[Luca1]

I think it is high time we start taking some 'liberties' with imported products. Tejas definitely had major influence from Mirage 2000, and I believe we will see the same between Rafale/AMCA.

Although manufacturing techniques will be hidden, the systems and integration of the Rafale could be used to greatly further and boost AMCA design, not to mention LCA experience will definitely speed up the process. A good place to start would be completing funding for $2 billion in AMCA design. I believe what is holding us back from doing so right now is lack of clarity on FGFA.

Either way, we do indeed have a good +10 years before Indian Air Force really needs to replace the medium combat aircraft.

Light Interceptors/Ground attack
MiG - til 2016/18/20 - Replace with LCA Tejas

Medium 'Multirole' /Deep Airstrike Fighter
Mirage 2000 - til 2030 - Replace with AMCA
Jaguar - til 2030 - Replace with AMCA
Rafale - til 2050 - Replace with ???

Heavy Fighter/ Air Superiority
Super Su-30MKI - til 2050 - Replace with FGFA (?)

Unles IAF changes their Light-Medium-Heavy aircraft doctrine, 2030 is the real turning point for the medium category. If AMCA prototypes and operational clearances can role out before 2025, and start serial production and FOC before 2030, then HAL/DRDO certainly have the time to finish and make a 5th generation fighter. Rafale will fly in by 2018, and will certainly influence and help development if needed. If AMCA can be finished, then I don't see why we can't make a heavier air-superiority fighter to replace Super Su-30MKI with something indigenous instead of FGFA by 2050.

A lot of "ifs" there. If India is not getting TOT on PAKFA but gets TOT on Rafael, I see India downgrade AMCA to a none stealth 4.5 gen configuration and India should be able to roll out such a prototype by 2030 and be in the same level of advancement as LCA after 2040s.

India need to be more decisive on buying weapons.