Pantsir S1 in Pakistan Army ?

[FuturePAF]

Do Manpads have the operational range and the radar support, are the firing crews fast enough to prepare, track and fire, I mean not slower than the TOR? I have seen that Pakistan air defence concept during different exercise, the Manpad crews are driving on Landrovers or in an M-113 APC, but the question is their REACTION time enough to counter IAF?

View attachment 498419

Manpads where originally designed to equip assaulting troops to defend against limited enemy air attack on or near their direct position. The ranges, speeds, and flight characteristics of modern enemy missiles that can be fired at our troops require dedicated computer controlled radar and E/O guided longer range air defense missiles. This is why the Pantsir and Buk are the right size and capability to protect a tank division for example, defending a part of the battlefield or advancing on the enemy. The S-300/S-400 would stay just behind the army, providing area air defense against high altitude and more predictable enemy targets like ballistic missiles or artillery rockets.

So Manpads would be woefully under suited for anything short of at the level of a few infantry vehicles defending their immediate position from low flying aircraft or helicopters.

 

[khanasifm]

Fm-90 vs pantsir ?? Can fm-90 fire on the move ?? Or it has to be stationary and jacked up to fire ?? Missile specs are similar 10-15k meter range against 5000 Meter altitude target and low level about halfway ??

I guess here has to be a major capacity difference to justify two different systems with almost same coverage envelope

e key difference is that both Soviet/Russian systems integrate the acquisition radar on the TELAR, and were designed like the 9K33 Osa / SA-8 Gecko before them, to “shoot and scoot”, providing high mobility point defence capability for land force manoeuvre elements. The baseline Crotale, which is the basis of the HQ-9, was built for rapid intra- and inter-theatre redeployment, but limited “shoot and scoot” capability.


http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-HQ-7-Crotale.html

 

[Hu Yao]

Fm-90 vs pantsir ?? Can fm-90 fire on the move ?? Or it has to be stationary and jacked up to fire ?? Missile specs are similar 10-15k meter range against 5000 Meter altitude target and low level about halfway ??

I guess here has to be a major capacity difference to justify two different systems with almost same coverage envelope

e key difference is that both Soviet/Russian systems integrate the acquisition radar on the TELAR, and were designed like the 9K33 Osa / SA-8 Gecko before them, to “shoot and scoot”, providing high mobility point defence capability for land force manoeuvre elements. The baseline Crotale, which is the basis of the HQ-9, was built for rapid intra- and inter-theatre redeployment, but limited “shoot and scoot” capability.


http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-HQ-7-Crotale.html

HQ-9 is not based on Crotale, I thought you mean HQ-7

 

[Path-Finder]

Best to go for HQ17

https://defence-blog.com/news/china-releases-footage-of-hq-17s-production-line.html

 

[Tps43]

Do Manpads have the operational range and the radar support, are the firing crews fast enough to prepare, track and fire, I mean not slower than the TOR? I have seen that Pakistan air defence concept during different exercise, the Manpad crews are driving on Landrovers or in an M-113 APC, but the question is their REACTION time enough to counter IAF?

View attachment 498419

Depends . as far as paf is concerned I can say that there strategy is different there work like for 1 VP they place 8 Shorads and 1 battery of spada/ crotale

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

I hate creating baseless threads based on mere speculation but just because I believe my source to be credible, I have decided to post this.

Personally talked to an officer who is real close to me and he broke it to me that boys are already in Russia for training (to operate the system) and Pantsir is set to arrive this December. I asked how certain he was and his response was an overwhelming affirmative.

I decided to skim PDF before posting this thread to see if any info regarding Pantsir procurement exists. Turned out there were a few threads from May 2019 and Pak posters rubbished the news only because the source were Indian newspapers. Considering that Russia offering defence systems to Pakistan is something all know (and Pantsir has already appeared in the list of the systems being offered) and considering that I got this news from no Sabir Shakir rather an officer who said that people are already in Russia for this purpose, I decided to lend some credibility to this news. Take it or leave it.

I tried to ask him about HQ-9 as well and he said that he has no news regarding it as of yet. It seems that decision to buy a long range SAM is still in the pipeline (or it may have been taken already, you never know in Pakistan).

Some insight into Pantsir's capabilities:

 

[war&peace]

Another short range missile defence system... We need long range defence systems like HQ-9 or S300/400

 

[Fawad alam]

I hate creating baseless threads based on mere speculation but just because I believe my source to credible, I have decided to post this.

Personally talked to an officer from Air Def core who is real close to me and he broke it to me that boys are already in Russia for training (to operate the system) and Pantsir is set to arrive this December. I asked how certain he was and his response was an overwhelming affirmative.

I decided to skim PDF to before posting this thread to see if any info regarding Pantsir procurement exists. Turned out there were a few threads from May 2019 and Pak posters rubbished the news only because the source were Indian newspapers. Considering that Russia offering defence systems to Pakistan is something all know (and Pantsir has already appeared in the list of the systems being offered) and considering that I got this news from no Sabir Shakir rather an officer inside AD who said that people are already in Russia for this purpose, I decided to lend some credibility to this news. Take it or leave it.

I tried to ask him about HQ-9 as well and he said that he has no news regarding it as of yet. It seems that decision to buy a long range SAM is still in the pipeline (or it may have been taken already, you never know in Pakistan).

Some insight into Pantsir's capabilities:

Very good and effective system for high value area defense against high speed and low flying objects such as Brahmos etc, Much needed.

 

[doorstar]

Personally talked to an officer from Air Def core who is real close to me and he..

... told you to go post it on the internet. way to go!

 

[Jinn Baba]

... told you to go post it on the internet. way to go!

A pak air defence unit training in Rusia wouldn't exactly be top secret news to the neighbour to the east or anyone else (other than the general public) for that matter.

 

[doorstar]

A pak air defence unit training in Rusia wouldn't exactly be top secret news to the neighbour to the east or anyone else (other than the general public) for that matter.

you mean Russia informed bharat and obtained injun permission beforehand?

 

[waqasmwi]

This Pantsir?

 

[Jinn Baba]

you mean Russia informed bharat and obtained injun permission beforehand?

Not obtained permission. But india (due to relations with Russia) probably already knows of the sale and that a Pak team is in Russia receiving training.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Another short range missile defence system for Pakistan army... Nothing for the people of Pakistan..No long range defence systems like HQ-9 or S300/400

I assume it's probably to counter the threat of Apache and the likes...
...Apache would wreak havoc on armor and infantry.

HQ9, S300, S400...those would be good to have as well...but they can't really double as an offensive weapon. In contrast aircrafts can defend airspace(similar to S300/S400) and double as an offensive weapon(for strikes). So a cash strapped nation like Pak is trying to make the best of the situation.

 

[HRK]

I hate creating baseless threads based on mere speculation but just because I believe my source to credible, I have decided to post this.

Personally talked to an officer from Air Def core who is real close to me and he broke it to me that boys are already in Russia for training (to operate the system) and Pantsir is set to arrive this December. I asked how certain he was and his response was an overwhelming affirmative.

I decided to skim PDF to before posting this thread to see if any info regarding Pantsir procurement exists. Turned out there were a few threads from May 2019 and Pak posters rubbished the news only because the source were Indian newspapers. Considering that Russia offering defence systems to Pakistan is something all know (and Pantsir has already appeared in the list of the systems being offered) and considering that I got this news from no Sabir Shakir rather an officer inside AD who said that people are already in Russia for this purpose, I decided to lend some credibility to this news. Take it or leave it.

Which version ??