Crusher
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True Socialists disregard all religions, so Faiz's poem does make sense in socialist terms.
Panel to decide if Faiz poem is anti-Hindu!!!
- Thread starter Shahzaz ud din
- Start date
True Socialists disregard all religions, so Faiz's poem does make sense in socialist terms.
The_Showstopper
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When you don't know the difference, please dont comment. Do post the translation of Vande mataram, I am all ears. Of course, I have a problem with any one who tries to impose his idea of how to display nationalism and patriotism. I don't care what Hindus do and want to believe, likewise I shouldn't be bothered with my concept of patriotism. If you like sculptures and idolatry, I have no problem with you worshipping them but stop imposing your beliefs on others. Simple as that..
JohnWick
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Don't act to be like that Injun nigger Arnab.
Shahzaz ud din
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Modi’s India unhappy with protesters singing Faiz’s Hum Dekhenge. Zia’s Pakistan was too
IIT Kanpur sets up a panel to decide if 'Hum Dekhenge' is anti-India. Whether it is Modi, Indira or Zia, the best time for poetry is the worst of times.
KAVEREE BAMZAI 2 January, 2020 8:34 am IST
Protests against the CAA-NRC in New Delhi | Manisha Mondal | ThePrint
Text Size:
If the protests in India against the Citizenship Amendment Act and the potential National Register of Citizens have proved one thing, it is this: poetry is the best language of dissent. Poet, comic, lyricist Varun Grover may have given us ‘Kagaz nahin dikhayenge’ as the new protest poem, but Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s Hum Dekhenge is an evergreen – not just at Studio Safdar’s MayDay event, but at every Jantar Mantar and India Gate protest. The song of hope amid darkness, was sung against Dow Chemicals in Bhopal, anti-nuclear stir at Jaitapur, and at women’s marches.
Hum Dekhenge is now being sung in anti-CAA-NRC protests. And in Narendra Modi’s India, some think it’s anti-national. In IIT Kanpur, a professor found the lines from Faiz’s poem, which the protesters were chanting, as ‘objectionable’ and ‘spreading hate against India’. Now, IIT Kanpur is setting up a panel to decide if Hum Dekhenge is anti-India.
“Jab arz-e-Khuda ke Ka’abe se, sab buut uthwaae jaayenge / Hum ahl-e-safa mardood-e-haram, masnad pe bithaaye jaayenge / Sab taaj uchhale jaayenge, sab takht giraaye jaayenge/ Bas naam rahega Allah ka, hum dekhenge
(From the abode of God, when the icons of falsehood will be removed / When we, the faithful, who have been barred from sacred places, will be seated on a high pedestal / When crowns will be tossed, when thrones will be brought down, only Allah’s name will remain.)”
But what is the place for Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s lines in Hindutva-saturated India today? He is, after all, Pakistan’s controversial and unofficial poet laureate.
Also read: IIT Kanpur sets up panel to decide if Faiz poem ‘Hum Dekhenge’ is anti-Hindu
Dire times
Moneeza Hashmi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s daughter likes to narrate an anecdote. Someone asked Faiz in the 1980s how he felt about his poetry, written years ago, remaining relevant and contemporary. He replied, laughing: “Hamne to likh diya, ab aapke halaat nahin badle to kya karen (I wrote what I had to, now if your circumstances are the same, what can one do).” Hashmi tells ThePrint on the phone from Lahore, Pakistan, “that is the genius of any talent, to remain relevant well after his death. And that is the tragedy of this subcontinent – the bigotry, racism, gender discrimination he talked about, the underdogs he wrote about, still exist”.
A lifelong Communist, Faiz was imprisoned for four years for planning a coup against Liaquat Ali Khan’s government in 1951. His nazm, Hum Dekhenge, written in 1979 as a protest against the rising Islamisation of Pakistan under Zia-ul-Haq, who had deposed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in a coup in 1977, has become the anthem sung by students across campuses in India, from Jamia Millia Islamia to Aligarh Muslim University. At many protests, the mass reading of the Preamble to the Constitution gave way seamlessly to Hum Dekhenge – ‘we the people’ to ‘we shall see/overcome’. Protest songs are the literature of people’s movements. But the best are those that age and travel well across causes, geographies and generations.
The nazm‘s most famous rendition, by Iqbal Bano, to a full house at Lahore’s Alhamra Arts Council in 1986 at the Faiz Foundation annual event, made it particularly famous. Legend has it that Iqbal Bano defied the ban on sarees by Zia and turned up in a black saree to sing it, but Hashmi says it is not true—Iqbal Bano never wore anything other than sarees.
“I have a picture of Faiz above my bed at home,” says Hashmi. “I look up at him and he is smiling. And I say to him, you’re enjoying this, aren’t you?”
The irony is that a nazm written in protest against Islamic fundamentalism, which even got a stanza unofficially banned from time to time, has raised the hackles of the custodians of student morality such as the IIT Kanpur professor. He objected to the same stanza that was banned by the Zia regime for quoting from the Quran.
Pakistan to India
Moneeza Hashmi believes the popularity of Hum Dekhenge arises from how simply it is worded: “Faiz was not a simple poet. He used Persian, Arabic, and his visual and verbal imagery was in the classical tradition. But this was an exception.” When a version sung by Pakistani artistes broke on Coke Studio in 2016, it won Faiz a whole new generation of fans.
This is not the only Faiz nazm that has caught the fancy of protesting students, most of whom were perhaps born much after the poet died in 1984. His Aaj Bazaar Main Pa-Ba Jaulaan Chalo written when he was taken in shackles across Lahore from his prison to his dentist in 1952 is also sung often, whether it is in the Jamia Millia Islamia sit-outs or Aligarh Muslim University sit-ins.
Words in exchange for violence, love in the time of lathis, the protests have thrown up a politically aware generation that wants to fight deep-seated hatred with stubborn love. As one of the placards at the protests said: Ma aur Mulk badle nahin jaate (The mother and the nation are never changed).
The young poet Sabika Abbas Naqvi is a fan of Faiz’s Hum Dekhenge. It makes me want to write new poems about dreams, she told The Print. “Dreams that will manifest into the new world that we are building with love, poetry, songs, graffiti, and togetherness. It establishes a distinction between those who oppress and those who rise, it gives us courage because it tells us that the victory of the marginalised is predestined because the reign of ‘haq’ is predestined. The world is meant to be equal, incisive and full of ishq. And ishq, inquilab, and azadi have already found a place on lauh-e-azal [Quranic term for the eternal slate on which the destiny of the whole universe from start to end has been recorded]. We are mere foot soldiers who will make it happen,” says Naqvi.
The Right-wing loathes it, she says, because they lack the will to dream anything that has love, that challenges the status quo. Only those who can dream can understand the strength the poem offers.
Hashmi says young people in Pakistan too are fighting the good fight against ultra conservatives: “They are coming forward and not toeing the line, not letting the hatred cloud their judgement.” Habib Jalib’s Dastoor and Fahmida Riaz’s Tum Bilkul Hum Jaise Nikle are also being sung, recited, and read. Poet and lawyer Saif Mahmood told ThePrint, it’s because these were written in and for similar political circumstances that we are going through now—both Jalib and Riaz were bitter critics of the rise of Islamic extremism in Pakistan. “The kind of suppression of dissent and societal regimentation we have started facing was being faced by Pakistan when these poems were written. They became songs of resistance for a people who decided to take on the oppressive regime. We in India are going through the same. Pakistan had its Narendra Modi in Zia-ul-Haq. This is our Zia-ul-Haq moment,” says Mahmood.
And what would Faiz himself say about the Zia-ul-Haq moment in India? “Unhe afsos hota,” says Hashmi, who spent many years in Pakistan Television Corporation. “Yeh to hona hi tha, woh kehte. Kab tak logon-ko dabaye rakhoge. (He would be sad. This was expected, he would say. How long can you suppress people?)”
Whether it is Narendra Modi and Amit Shah, Indira Gandhi or Zia-ul-Haq, the best time for poetry is in the worst of times. During the recent students’ protests in Pakistan, star activist Arooj Aurangzeb sang Sarfaroshi Ki Tamanna. When a song urges people to rise, it becomes a ‘seditious’ act – not because it brings powerful people to their knees, but because it promises the tantalising possibility of change. That possibility to dream is itself a powerful weapon to hold on to.
The author is a senior journalist. Views are personal.
ThePrint is now on Telegram. For the best reports & opinion on politics, governance and more, subscribe to ThePrint on Telegram.
IIT Kanpur sets up a panel to decide if 'Hum Dekhenge' is anti-India. Whether it is Modi, Indira or Zia, the best time for poetry is the worst of times.
KAVEREE BAMZAI 2 January, 2020 8:34 am IST
Protests against the CAA-NRC in New Delhi | Manisha Mondal | ThePrint
Text Size:
If the protests in India against the Citizenship Amendment Act and the potential National Register of Citizens have proved one thing, it is this: poetry is the best language of dissent. Poet, comic, lyricist Varun Grover may have given us ‘Kagaz nahin dikhayenge’ as the new protest poem, but Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s Hum Dekhenge is an evergreen – not just at Studio Safdar’s MayDay event, but at every Jantar Mantar and India Gate protest. The song of hope amid darkness, was sung against Dow Chemicals in Bhopal, anti-nuclear stir at Jaitapur, and at women’s marches.
Hum Dekhenge is now being sung in anti-CAA-NRC protests. And in Narendra Modi’s India, some think it’s anti-national. In IIT Kanpur, a professor found the lines from Faiz’s poem, which the protesters were chanting, as ‘objectionable’ and ‘spreading hate against India’. Now, IIT Kanpur is setting up a panel to decide if Hum Dekhenge is anti-India.
“Jab arz-e-Khuda ke Ka’abe se, sab buut uthwaae jaayenge / Hum ahl-e-safa mardood-e-haram, masnad pe bithaaye jaayenge / Sab taaj uchhale jaayenge, sab takht giraaye jaayenge/ Bas naam rahega Allah ka, hum dekhenge
(From the abode of God, when the icons of falsehood will be removed / When we, the faithful, who have been barred from sacred places, will be seated on a high pedestal / When crowns will be tossed, when thrones will be brought down, only Allah’s name will remain.)”
But what is the place for Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s lines in Hindutva-saturated India today? He is, after all, Pakistan’s controversial and unofficial poet laureate.
Also read: IIT Kanpur sets up panel to decide if Faiz poem ‘Hum Dekhenge’ is anti-Hindu
Dire times
Moneeza Hashmi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s daughter likes to narrate an anecdote. Someone asked Faiz in the 1980s how he felt about his poetry, written years ago, remaining relevant and contemporary. He replied, laughing: “Hamne to likh diya, ab aapke halaat nahin badle to kya karen (I wrote what I had to, now if your circumstances are the same, what can one do).” Hashmi tells ThePrint on the phone from Lahore, Pakistan, “that is the genius of any talent, to remain relevant well after his death. And that is the tragedy of this subcontinent – the bigotry, racism, gender discrimination he talked about, the underdogs he wrote about, still exist”.
A lifelong Communist, Faiz was imprisoned for four years for planning a coup against Liaquat Ali Khan’s government in 1951. His nazm, Hum Dekhenge, written in 1979 as a protest against the rising Islamisation of Pakistan under Zia-ul-Haq, who had deposed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in a coup in 1977, has become the anthem sung by students across campuses in India, from Jamia Millia Islamia to Aligarh Muslim University. At many protests, the mass reading of the Preamble to the Constitution gave way seamlessly to Hum Dekhenge – ‘we the people’ to ‘we shall see/overcome’. Protest songs are the literature of people’s movements. But the best are those that age and travel well across causes, geographies and generations.
The nazm‘s most famous rendition, by Iqbal Bano, to a full house at Lahore’s Alhamra Arts Council in 1986 at the Faiz Foundation annual event, made it particularly famous. Legend has it that Iqbal Bano defied the ban on sarees by Zia and turned up in a black saree to sing it, but Hashmi says it is not true—Iqbal Bano never wore anything other than sarees.
“I have a picture of Faiz above my bed at home,” says Hashmi. “I look up at him and he is smiling. And I say to him, you’re enjoying this, aren’t you?”
The irony is that a nazm written in protest against Islamic fundamentalism, which even got a stanza unofficially banned from time to time, has raised the hackles of the custodians of student morality such as the IIT Kanpur professor. He objected to the same stanza that was banned by the Zia regime for quoting from the Quran.
Pakistan to India
Moneeza Hashmi believes the popularity of Hum Dekhenge arises from how simply it is worded: “Faiz was not a simple poet. He used Persian, Arabic, and his visual and verbal imagery was in the classical tradition. But this was an exception.” When a version sung by Pakistani artistes broke on Coke Studio in 2016, it won Faiz a whole new generation of fans.
This is not the only Faiz nazm that has caught the fancy of protesting students, most of whom were perhaps born much after the poet died in 1984. His Aaj Bazaar Main Pa-Ba Jaulaan Chalo written when he was taken in shackles across Lahore from his prison to his dentist in 1952 is also sung often, whether it is in the Jamia Millia Islamia sit-outs or Aligarh Muslim University sit-ins.
Words in exchange for violence, love in the time of lathis, the protests have thrown up a politically aware generation that wants to fight deep-seated hatred with stubborn love. As one of the placards at the protests said: Ma aur Mulk badle nahin jaate (The mother and the nation are never changed).
The young poet Sabika Abbas Naqvi is a fan of Faiz’s Hum Dekhenge. It makes me want to write new poems about dreams, she told The Print. “Dreams that will manifest into the new world that we are building with love, poetry, songs, graffiti, and togetherness. It establishes a distinction between those who oppress and those who rise, it gives us courage because it tells us that the victory of the marginalised is predestined because the reign of ‘haq’ is predestined. The world is meant to be equal, incisive and full of ishq. And ishq, inquilab, and azadi have already found a place on lauh-e-azal [Quranic term for the eternal slate on which the destiny of the whole universe from start to end has been recorded]. We are mere foot soldiers who will make it happen,” says Naqvi.
The Right-wing loathes it, she says, because they lack the will to dream anything that has love, that challenges the status quo. Only those who can dream can understand the strength the poem offers.
Hashmi says young people in Pakistan too are fighting the good fight against ultra conservatives: “They are coming forward and not toeing the line, not letting the hatred cloud their judgement.” Habib Jalib’s Dastoor and Fahmida Riaz’s Tum Bilkul Hum Jaise Nikle are also being sung, recited, and read. Poet and lawyer Saif Mahmood told ThePrint, it’s because these were written in and for similar political circumstances that we are going through now—both Jalib and Riaz were bitter critics of the rise of Islamic extremism in Pakistan. “The kind of suppression of dissent and societal regimentation we have started facing was being faced by Pakistan when these poems were written. They became songs of resistance for a people who decided to take on the oppressive regime. We in India are going through the same. Pakistan had its Narendra Modi in Zia-ul-Haq. This is our Zia-ul-Haq moment,” says Mahmood.
And what would Faiz himself say about the Zia-ul-Haq moment in India? “Unhe afsos hota,” says Hashmi, who spent many years in Pakistan Television Corporation. “Yeh to hona hi tha, woh kehte. Kab tak logon-ko dabaye rakhoge. (He would be sad. This was expected, he would say. How long can you suppress people?)”
Whether it is Narendra Modi and Amit Shah, Indira Gandhi or Zia-ul-Haq, the best time for poetry is in the worst of times. During the recent students’ protests in Pakistan, star activist Arooj Aurangzeb sang Sarfaroshi Ki Tamanna. When a song urges people to rise, it becomes a ‘seditious’ act – not because it brings powerful people to their knees, but because it promises the tantalising possibility of change. That possibility to dream is itself a powerful weapon to hold on to.
The author is a senior journalist. Views are personal.
ThePrint is now on Telegram. For the best reports & opinion on politics, governance and more, subscribe to ThePrint on Telegram.
Chhatrapati
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Nobody imposed any beliefs on you. Don't jump to victim-hood drama. I don't see any idolatry in these adopted lines.
Mother, I praise you | Rich with your hurrying streams,
bright with orchard gleams, | Cool with thy winds of delight,
Dark fields waving Mother of might, | Mother free.
Glory of moonlight dreams, | Over thy branches and lordly streams,
Clad in thy blossoming trees, | Mother, giver of ease
Laughing low and sweet! | Mother I fell on your feet,
Speaker sweet and low! | Mother, to you I praise you.
Pure RUBBISH.
The Original Vande Mataram was MODIFIED during 1947 while making it the National Song, and it was done for MUSLIM APPEASEMENT and AS PER MUSLIM DEMAND. All reference to goddess was REMOVED from the original song while making it the National song.
The irony is that the shameless muslims still refused to sing it EVAN AFTER IT WAS MODIFIED as per their own suggestions.
It must be tough for your to spread lies in the internet and google age. LOL.
Rusty
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Panel to decide if Faiz poem is anti-Hindu!!!
There had been recent countrywide protests against the CAA, including at the Jamia Millia Islamia University. IIT Kanpur students had taken out a peaceful march in support of the Jamia students.
The IIT Kanpur has set up a panel to decide whether the poem ‘Hum dekhenge lazim hai ki hum bhi dekhenge’, penned by Faiz Ahmad Faiz, is anti-Hindu.
The panel has been set up in response to a complaint filed by a faculty member who claimed that the students, during a protest, sang the poem, which is anti-Hindu.
The panel will also probe whether the students violated prohibitory orders clamped in the city on the day of the march, whether they posted objectionable content on the social media and whether the Faiz poem is anti-Hindu.
The poem reads—‘Lazim hai ke hum bhi dekhenge. Jab arz-e-Khuda ke kaabe se. Sab but uthwaye jayenge, Hum ahl-e-safa mardood-e-harm. Masnad pe bithaye jayenge. Sab taaj uchale jaenge. Sab takht giraye jayenge. Bas naam rahega Allah ka. Hum dekhenge.’
It was the last line that has turned into a bone of contention. Translated into English, it means, ‘When thrones will vanish, only Allah’s name will remain’--implying the translation by the professor.
The poem had been written by Faiz in reference to military dictator Zia-ul-Haq in 1979 and was against the military rule in Pakistan.
The IIT-Kanpur students had taken out a peaceful march on the campus on December 17 in support of the students of Jamia Millia Islamia and during the march the students sang the Faiz poem.
According to IIT deputy director Manindra Agarwal: “In the video, the students are seen reciting the Faiz poem which can also be perceived as being anti-Hindu.”
The IIT faculty member, in his complaint, has alleged that the students made anti-India and communal statements during their demonstration in solidarity with the Jamia students.
The complaint was based on two lines of the poem, which have obviously been misinterpreted—“When all idols will be removed, only Allah’s name will remain.”
The faculty member has stated that “organisers and masterminds must be identified and expelled immediately”.
Fifteen other students have also signed the complaint filed by the professor against the protesting students.
Meanwhile, IIT students have said that the faculty member who lodged the complaint has been banned on a social networking site for posting communal content.
In an article published on the IIT-Kanpur student media portal, the students clarified what exactly happened on the day of protest and how their chant was given a “communal and misleading” turn. They stated that they had recited a few lines of the Faiz poem in reference to the police crackdown on the Jamia students.
IIT Kanpur panel to decide if Faiz poem is anti-Hindu
Kanpur, January 1 The IIT Kanpur has set up a panel to decide whether the poem ‘Hum dekhenge lazim hai ki hum bhi dekhenge’, penned by Faiz Ahmad Faiz, is anti-Hindu. The panel has been
www.tribuneindia.com
1. 'An institution like IIT' doesn't teach/research on Urdu nazms
2. IIT Kanpur dint object to the lines, an IIT faculty did. Just like IIT Kanpur dint recite the poem but a group did
3. Panel will NOT study the nazm to give fatwa on whether it's anti-Hindu.
LOL at this pathetic article that is full of half truths and lies.
SIPRA
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It was not only that certain contents of Vande Mataram were highly objectionable to Muslims; but also the fact that this poem, by that bigot Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, was also part of his anti-Muslim controversial novel "Anandamath". This background also raised the concern of using this toxic poem, as national song. It should also be noted that Muslim League, before independence, had no objection on using it by Congress in their own political functions. The objections were raised, when Congress started using it as a sort of anthem in their government functions and proceedings, after coming into power, in various states/provinces, in 1937.
Now these Sanghis and Chaddi Dhaaris would tell and dictate us about, what is in accordance with Islam and what is not.
So we can only draw two logical conclusions from this.
1. Faiz wrote rubbish nonsense since his poem does not make any sense.
2. Faiz was an Islamist pretending to be a socialist.
Which one is more likely ?
ADIL SHERDIL
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Please tell what it is then? When hindus force muslim to chant indian slogan then its okay.
Read this poem and then comment.
Sheikh Rauf
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yes this poem is anti hindu plus any idea which doesnt suit hinduvta is anti hindu.. what happend to indian society it truly feels like they are on high dose of urine and cow dump.
Chhatrapati
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It is simply an agitation over a non issue. When did Hindus force Muslims to chant Indian slogan? Rephrase it.
I have read the poem, heard the slogans, seen quite a lot of clips. And I'm glad Islamist hijacked the protests.
SD 10
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I just hope that they retain this dose
The_Showstopper
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Beef ban must be happening in space. No???
You can abstain from eating beef, worship Cows and drink her piss for all I care, but why are we stopped from eating beef? Is that not imposition of your beliefs.
If you wanna say Vande mataram and Bharat mata ki jai, then so be it. Why force others to do the same? We will express our patriotism our way, not the way you dictate us.
LOL... Go check the whatsapp groups, facebook pages and groups etc and you will find the eternal victimhood drama played by your lot...
Watch the below r@ndi rona of a "beseiged" hindu... LOL
Any reference to this translation or did you just make it up?
Anyways a few sources which explains why muslims object to it and why they believe that it goes against their religious beliefs.
Why Muslims reject Vande Mataram - india - Hindustan Times
[URL='https://www.boomlive.in/how-vande-mataram-became-so-controversial-all-you-need-to-know/']How Vande Mataram Became So Controversial[/URL]
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