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Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

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Type karnay main time lagay ga.. Judges doosray cases bhi sunn rahay hotay hian.. Unki bbhi preparation karni hoti hogi.i think itna jaldi nahi aasakta.. Is case main type karnay ko bhtt hoga.. Time lagay ga, mera khyal hai

In my opinion, the longer it takes the better. It means that the judges may have examined the new evidence and come to a different conclusion. It wouldn't take many days to say that the new evidence is insufficient to prove that Nawaz Sharif is dishonest.

I think if it will be the 3 judges just adding to earlier 2 judges decision (adding their orders based on JIT findings to the previous interim order) then verdict might be written much quicker and may be delivered next week.

Otherwise, if all the five judges review and rewrite their judgements based on implementation bench findings then we should expect a similar time frame as before due to the length of time required to write as such.

My wish more than my guess is for a next week verdict.

And Allah Subhan Taala knows best.

I don't think they can discard their old judgement. If they are changing their verdict they will have to justify the steps which led them to do so. The old judgements which did not DQ will always remain part of the record. The won't rewrite. They will probably write a short review of what happens when you include the new evidence into the explaination they have already setup. Justice Ejaz Afzal Khan will probably not DQ. The other two might.
 
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Without getting into who will win and who will lose, I was wondering the effects of the Panama Case on me and my fellow Pakistanis and how it has affected Pakistan’s stature in the comity of nations. The major part of the debate on the case has been partisan, depending upon which camp you followed and which party one supported; but honestly we all lost as a nation.



Frederic’ Bastiat was a great French free-market economist and author of 19th Century. His famous work on state and corruption is a beacon of light for those who want to struggle for a corruption free society.

I admire one of his famous quotes on corruption, “When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

Has Pakistan reached the level that Bastiat projected? I think we are not there but getting very close to it.

If the leadership at highest level not only becomes an accomplice to corruption but the very epitome of it, where do you go?

Panama has exposed the fault lines in our democratic system as well. Apparently democratic dispensation is becoming very difficult in view of the strategic paralysis of institutions of accountability; no wonder the SCP bench hearing the Panama case remarked that the NAB was dead.

Objectivity in the media was seen to be evaporating when some media houses and analysts were found defending an undependable turf of political gerrymandering based on biases and incentives. The media appeared to be operating from two hostile camps, this is again not very encouraging for a free media that we keep on harping upon.

The questions raised during the case have highlighted the following loop holes in our democratic dispensation, which need an objective debate in the media; If public office holders have business interests in foreign countries, how do they affect decision making and sovereignty of Pakistan? Can the Pakistani state have normal leverage with other states in foreign policy when business interests of leadership at highest level clash with national interests? How can Pakistan peruse an independent foreign policy, when public office holders have tied their own hands due to their business interests in foreign lands?

Can our public office holders at high position have resident status in foreign countries; how does it affect the business of the state? No wonder our decisions are affected by foreign capitals like Dubai, London, Washington, Riyadh and even New Delhi.

If the next generation of our leaders prefer in not only staying abroad but also adopting foreign lands as their home, what message we are giving to people of Pakistan? Mistrust in Pakistan as a state and nation? We always reiterate and harp upon foreign direct investment, how do we attract it when our own children prefer to invest in foreign lands?

Are off shore accounts, a recipe for concealment of wealth? Can we learn from the fact that Qaddafi, Mubarak and Ben Ali regimes may have been brought down by the same money they invested in foreign lands? Recalling a report published in The Guardian in Feb 2011, President Hosni Mubarak’s family fortune was estimated to be as much as $70bn (£43.5bn), with much of his wealth in British and Swiss banks or tied up in real estate in London, New York, Los Angeles and along expensive tracts of the Red Sea coast. Could this huge amount of personal wealth save Mubarak from prosecution? We may have few lessons here.

If the precedence of producing dubious letters from foreign leaders and business concerns, to justify stashing of wealth is set in Pakistan, aren’t we conspiring against transparency and real democracy, wont it become almost impossible to do accountability in Pakistan?

If institutions, responsible for accountability are headed by cronies, loyalists and bosom buddies, are we falling into the trap of what was predicted by Frederic’ Bastiat, “a system that authorises plunder and a moral code that glorifies it”.

The case also highlighted aspects of forgery, outright lies and obstruction of justice; is it the new normal in Pakistan and can Pakistan overcome the hurdles created in the delivery of justice through a very complicated system of white collar crime? Is our justice system being exploited to only prosecute the poor and powerless? Syedna Hazrat Ali’s famous quote “Justice is better than courage as if everyone is fair to others, then there will be no need for courage,” is advice for the Pakistani state and society. Can we learn from the wisdom of our greats?

The most important psychological effect of Panama case on the collective psyche has been the dark question; how does it affect Pakistani state and individuals? If leadership is reflection of our collective psyche and polity, are we a nation of crooks and criminals who would use all energies to deceive and decoy facts? In my opinion, this damage to reputation of Pakistan in comity of nations is the biggest casualty of Panama Case which cannot be weighed in terms of dollars and rupees, and will keep haunting us as a people for years to come.

I would quote another piece from Frederic’ Bastiat and end here, “When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law.”

Are we collectively pushing the individual Pakistani to lose respect for Pakistani Law?
 
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Can u briefly tell...what did they say?

Words simply cannot describe how Nusrat Javed analysed and imitated what NS thinks and speaks himself these days, simply hilarious and shameful for NS.

Even more so because it seems not only true but also because Khwaja Asif comes online after Nusrat Javed's second parody of Nawaz and is all praise for the three journalists, lol. He can claim that he didn't see the part before he came online but he seemed to be watching the program from his intro remarks too, lol.

Can u briefly tell...what did they say?

I enjoyed it more because my own recent posts are on exactly the same lines as Kasif that PM should resign in the interest of the nation but I also agree with NJaved's assessment of Nawaz's legendary stubbornness in not resigning at any cost before judgement.

One thing is strange, No body is talking about Kulsoom Nawaz as successor of NS. It is a very likely possibility as I posted my reasons earlier:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pana...-and-discussion.459474/page-1160#post-9690642
 
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New Petition:

Money from corruption was used for inciting and funding terrorism in Pakistan.

Anti Terrorism Court should handle this.

Thank you
 
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Best 45 minute I spent watching any program in a long long time:

@Tesky @expert @QatariPrince @Farah Sohail @PakSword @Realistic Change @Verve @The Accountant

For the time conscious, best of the best is 25:00 onwards.

How NS thinks...lol...29:00-32:00.

32:30 onwards about defence lawyers approach witnessed in SC and how things went in court as judges concluded proceedings.



Sorry if a repost:

Thanks for the tag. Much appreciated!

I did watch it in bits and pieces, one needs to understand Nawaz's psyche to make an educated guess.

I stated it before; another Dost Mohammad Khosa episode can't be played now.

Nawaz cannot afford Shahbaz as PM; until he is sure that Maryam's future career is finished due to this (Panama) case.

Nisar sought time of two days to bargain and his whole 'tantrum' was cut to size Dar group. Will see in few hours if he was successful or not. He is a drama queen of PMLN.

If, Nawaz & Maryam gets disqualified it has to be PMLK ;) for 2018 elections, as I had been saying all along. Not an iota of doubt about it.

Whatever PMLN now saying publicly is for its voter's consumption.

Message was given in Lahore (in April I guess) that Nawaz will not be candidate in 2018 and Maryam was to be the candidate, which was the actual cause of tiff between Nawaz and Shahbaz camps. The family meeting/get together took place after Dawn Leaks was successfully managed by PMLN.
 
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Hi,

What do you mean defeatist---.

Trust cannot be given to the court system first---. It has to earn it by its decisions---. And there is no major decision by the court favoring the public in their daily lives---either in criminal or civil case.

The high court and the supreme court of pakistan are a fraud and totally corrupt.

TRIAL COURTS NAB COURTS WHICH WORK accordingly WHAT most Corrupt Department NAB PROVIDE THEM NAB ALREADY WASTED 17 YEARS OF PAKISTANI NATION DAMAGED PAKISTAN IN EVERY WAY AFTER JUDGES THEN JIT THEN JUDGES SO MUCH TIME MONEY WASTED STILL IF NO SOLID JUDGMENT ORDERS BY HIGHER COURTS NO FUTURE OF PAKISTAN GURANTEED. Pray judges of supreme court become so great like JIT officers and make history real change for coming generations but still too difficult to have tough stance to disqualify him beside so many proofs of corruption against him still look like highest court judges still giving him safe passage to the godfather may b to do justice or may be because he is mafia lord every one should get afraid of him so he can do more corruption this bad practice must end to do more corruption waste time of courts public made mess first judges then jit now ehtesaab nab courts dancing the nation all crap hona wona koch nahi aiwe amam ka dimag waqt paisa thabah kia jaa raha ha ha mola kare jit ka afsaro ki thara in judges ma be insaaf paida ho or in thamam dako chooro ko nishane ebrath bana de waise hotha howa aise koch nazar nahi araha baaz waqt lagtha ha k choor ko bachaya jaa raha ha mazeed chori karne ke liya pakistan idhaare siyasi chooro ko or ye siyasi choor pakistanio ko kahi nahi chorne wale khoon chooste rahengai, if judges are serious sincere they must put nawaz his family name in ecl list ban him from politics till the recovery of money from him disqualify him and forward the case of him and all other corrupt members of parliament and their cases to army courts make quick decisions judgments if it happened this will be the worst day for the enemies of pakistan best for whole patriotic sincere pakistanis...Pakistani judges ko ALLAH himmat dai AMEEN.PANAMA RECORD BREAKING CORRUPTION BY PML N PPP ANP ACHAKZAI MQM THESE PARTIES REALLY DAMAGED PAKISTAN.Even if the SC disqualifies NS Gang, a reference from SC will still have to be sent to Speaker NA who will issue orders for de-seating NS..If the speaker NA, refuses to de-seat NS or delays or then NS will continue to remain PM till the Election Commission takes notice. Yes... In short, NS is cooked & destroyed InshAllah, for all times...BUT he will drag, scream, crawl, beg, steal & kill to stay in power even now The patriots must be prepared for a brutal long battle still, even after the verdict of SC. Parliament, NAB, Election Commission would delay.
 
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ISLAMABAD: When the Supreme Court begins hearing the contempt case against a major newspaper group on July 25, the interesting issue would not be what the newspaper group says in the SC but how deep the court digs into its Pandora's Box.

Why this box is a can of worms can and should be revealed because of the SC directive that all records of advertisements given by the governments to the media, both electronic and print, should be presented before the court.

If this is done, as some reports say data has already started to come in, it would be the first time the real face of the media would become public.

More importantly the nation would know how billions upon billions of taxpayers money has been used, or misused, by the governments, both at the Centre and in the provinces, and to whose benefit.

There are many players and stakeholders who would be going through sleepless nights during these hearings which could turn into an actual trial of the media, not a media trial of others.

The issues that could, and would, be raised include the role of the advertisers, meaning the governments in Islamabad and in the provinces, the middlemen or the advertising agencies who distribute these ads of billions of rupees and the recipients who publish or run these ads in newspapers and on TV.

More importantly, because this is all public money, the questions that will have to be answered will include details of the criteria on which these billions of rupees ads were dished out; who would be held responsible for the decisions; what public interest these ads served and whether this money was used for political purposes.

My media friends say the most sensitive information that is supposed to come out in the SC trial would be the role of the advertising agencies as government have used this money through these agencies for years and no one has ever focused on how this was done and who benefited.

The governments, in the centre and the provinces, could easily try to wash off their hands by stating in the SC that these ad campaigns were made for information of the public about what their elected governments were doing and that it were the agencies which were actually responsible for selecting who gets what share of these lotteries.

This is where the catch is. The criteria that the agencies will say they used is supposed to be based on the ratings and viewership of the TV channels and the circulation of the newspapers. This may on the face of it appear to be a fair procedure but what the SC needs to find out, and will, could be a lot dirty.

The agencies will have to prove that they gave away this money to the most deserving but it would be a tough ask. If they shift the blame on the advertisers, it could become not just embarrassing but may be a violation of rules or laws as well, leading to legal consequences.

Friends in the agencies say there are numerous cases when millions of rupees worth of ads were ordered to some TV channels with high ratings but others with similar or better ratings were ignored because they pursued policies which were critical of the government.

So ultimately if it turns out that billions were given on the basis of which sections of the media supported, or opposed, the government, it would be alleged that a game of intense favoritism was played with public funds.

Because billions of rupees are involved, this could become a 'Panama trial of the media' and it can only be assumed that except some groups or individuals in the media, a majority may not like this dirty linen to be washed in public.

I have seen some lists and figures of how much each TV channel received in the last few years, or few months, as federal government campaigns but I would leave it to the SC to bring out these details before the public. But what I can reveal is that numerous instances will come to light, if proper questions are asked by the lawyers from those who were issuing the ads, those who were middlemen and those who received them, in which favoritism and misuse of power will be evident like daylight.

Some campaigns, friends say, were issued at just two hours notice in which only the name and dates of the project that was being inaugurated were changed and channels were asked to insert these ads, sometimes at the cost of commercial advertisers who had already booked the space in advance.

One important factor about government ads that would come out is that TV channels charge almost three to four times higher rate from the government advertisers as compared to normal ads which makes government ads immensely attractive and a high revenue earning prospect.

So in many cases, millions were given away to favourite TV channels in just one day and the content of the ad was just the announcement that some big guy will cut the ribbon of some big project, at times for the 3rd or the 4th time because politics of that day needed that publicity.

It will be argued that some of these campaigns were for public education and awareness, like using polio drops, combating mosquitoes, sending their kids to schools or pointing out suspicious activities of terrorists, etc, but how badly these funds were misused for political purposes will also get exposed.

The lists of ads doled out is a mind-boggling reading. In some cases amounts in excess of Rs 200 or Rs 300 million were given to TV channels which do not figure in any list of top 5 or top 10 popular channels. Likewise some very popular but critical channels were seen at the bottom of these ad lists.

If the SC judges go into these details and are able to find out what has been happening, they will then have to give directions to fix a universal criteria of how this public money should be used and distributed by the governments.

We know that development funds have been used in the past by ruling parties by allocating a fixed amount, in millions, to MPs, but it is also known that opposition MPs also received these funds. In the case of the media as well, billions are involved and there is no check on how these billions are being used or have been used.

That is why this first trial of the media beginning on July 25, could and should become the 'Panama of the Idiot Box'.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/23-Jul-17/panama-of-the-idiot-box
 
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https://tribune.com.pk/story/1464456/pm-admits-employment-uae-based-firm/?amp=1

PMLN got JIT stopped for any further investigation, and then rebuts their report stating errors by Standard Chartered Bank's officer, followed by their contention that UAE Govt could have made mistake, before it was typographical errors in elections, so on and so forth!

This test tube error product gets caught and succesfully puts the responsibility of error/omission on others; and he gets away too - E V E R Y T I M E
 
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PMLN camp is very confident that Supreme Court will not disqualify Nawaz Sharif

People I have spoken/messaged to in PMLN camp; two Fed Ministers, and few MNAs are quite nervous. MNA's (who will win from any party ticket anyways) from Southern Punjab who couldn't get ministries or other important positions are not too worried as they feel Southern Punjab had been under represented.

that's overconfidence ... & overconfidence kills !!

It's posturing. If you have heard the tone and tenor of Kh. Asif in yesterday's programs, one can easily make out he was almost on the verge of crying.
 
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It's posturing. If you have heard the tone and tenor of Kh. Asif in yesterday's programs, one can easily make out he was on the verge of crying.

i've heard Kh. Asif is strong contender for PM in case NS is disqualified ... do you have any intel on this ....
 
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