Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Farah Sohail]

On a serious note.. I don't know what has happened here.. For sure yeh IK se ghalti huee hogi.. kyun ke 2015 main uss ne show kardia tha poora amount..

I think ..kiun ke 2015 main IK ne khud declare kar dyia tha..iss hi wajah se judges ne usay honest samjha ke agar us ne conceal karna hota tu2015 main bhi declare nahi karta jaisy NS ne kabhi salary declare nahi ki..sirf 2014 main chupaany se IK ko kia faida hota?

Yeh parh ke usay laga ke phir dhak hogaya uss ke saath.. usay apni aankhon pe yaqeen hi nahi aaya hoga ke IK ke verdict main bhi meri izzat afzai! woh bhi rach ke!

Waqayi rach ke izzat afzayi hui jai..jis ki umeed kisi ko nahi thee ye tu miracle hogaya

 

[PakSword]

I think ..kiun ke 2015 main IK ne khud declare kar dyia tha..iss hi wajah se judges ne usay honest samjha ke agar us ne conceal karna hota tu2015 main bhi declare nahi karta jaisy NS ne kabhi salary declare nahi ki..sirf 2014 main chupaany se IK ko kia faida hota?

Haan mera bhi exactly yehi khayal hai.. lekin bacha baal baal hai..

Aik tou yeh bacha ke bench acha mil gaya.. Paji saab ka bench milta tou aaj London main hota..

Doosra judges ne insaaf ko qanoon ke upar rakha...

 

[Farah Sohail]

Haan mera bhi exactly yehi khayal hai.. lekin bacha baal baal hai..

Aik tou yeh bacha ke bench acha mil gaya.. Paji saab ka bench milta tou aaj London main hota..

Doosra judges ne insaaf ko qanoon ke upar rakha...

Waqayi....fortunately IK ko acha bench mil gaya.. Qazi Faez Isa hotay tu IK london main hota aur iss case main bhi JIT ki insult horahi hoti...aur panama verdict ko kehtay ke bilkol ghalat tha..

Waisy ab panama verdict 5 judges ka verdict nahi raha balke 8 judges ka verdict hogaya hai

 

[PakSword]

Waisy ab panama verdict 5 judges ka verdict nahi raha balke 8 judges ka hogaya hai

Aur Allah karay abb NS SC pe hamla karnay ke liey Raiwind se nikal paray.. Kyun nahi nikala.. bolo kyun nahi nikala ki sadaon ke saath.. aur aakhir main SC akela pohnchay ga aur kahega:


MAIN AAGAY BARHTA GAYA AUR QAAFLA GHAT'TA GAYA..

 

[Farah Sohail]

Aur Allah karay abb NS SC pe hamla karnay ke liey Raiwind se nikal paray.. Kyun nahi nikala.. bolo kyun nahi nikala ki sadaon ke saath.. aur aakhir main SC akela pohnchay ga aur kahega:


MAIN AAGAY BARHTA GAYA AUR QAAFLA GHAT'TA GAYA..

 

[Realistic Change]

NS worst days are yet to come...politically or legally? On legal front..i dont think...panama bench judges ke calibre ke aur judges hain....mostly judges are basheera and Qazi Faez Isa type.....so legally mujhe nahi lagta ke NS ka tough time aayega.. he will manage his cases and at most..will go in exile like last time..Yes..politically party uss ke haath se zuroor nikal sakti hai



Oh woww... best of luck...

Thanks!

And yes both; legal and political. Aisey hi nahin akela banda tehreek shuru karta hai ......tehreek ke shurka'a - Nawaz, Hassan, Hussain, Maryam aur Safdar pey mujhey shak hai

No.. I think I have never said that.. what I believe is that Ch. Nisar is a drama queen.. because sometime back he was acting weird with his back pain on a daily basis, calling press and when everyone on the media said that he would resign, many of us thought that is doing a drama here..

He is still a force.. I believe.. but he is a drama queen of the highest order..



Good luck.. Please issue me a pass to the NA when you win in shaa Allah.. I want to see the building from inside..

==============================

@Farah Sohail I am reading the verdict.. Nawaz was right when he said that he would be disqualified even in IK case..

Thanks - I can get you passes even now for that we don't need to contest elections

-------------------------

@PakSword & @Farah Sohail
On a totally different note - if some one says that Panama verdict (some parts) was doctored to mellow it down would you believe it? Just asking ....waisey hi

 

[PakSword]

On a totally different note - if some one says that Panama verdict was "doctored to mellow it down" would you believe it? Just asking ....waisey hi

Depends who says it. If it's you, I will certainly believe... Lolz

And passes in shaa Allah aap ke mna bannay ke baad.. abhi tou assembly main gadhay hi dekhnay milaingay...

 

[Realistic Change]

Depends who says it. If it's you, I will certainly believe... Lolz

And passes in shaa Allah aap ke mna bannay ke baad.. abhi tou assembly main gadhay hi dekhnay milaingay...

Nah - I am not saying.....I am just asking your opinion..... someone from Govt., still staunch Nawaz loyalist admitted somethings from which one can easily infer that it was indeed mellowed down (okay let me say it a bit more clearly - two of the three in second bench mellowed it down drastically and changed the trajectory even in presence certain glaring evidences) - and as I stated above; his ragdra is baqi based on the same thing - there are off shoots including huge money laundering and kickback charges (including docs that I had submitted to NAB of his Luxembourg and Dubai transactions - I think @Farah Sohail will remember this conversation we had months ago)

As for us coming to NA - depends on if we win ....long way to go - although currently this seat is held within our family and two of the PA seats under this are also within the family but surprisingly as of now I feel we (as in our group) will get tougher challenge from PPP due to various factors - and for me it was a huge surprise......but then when wind starts it does help- and this wind in parts of Punjab for PPP is not bad.

Right now, the situation is complex due to almost every party having "right" connections in power corridors to solicit support and almost everyone has same level of moral support.

 

[Realistic Change]

Hmmm... iska matlab judges IK ke saath lenient rahay? Waisy unanimuos judgment hia.. all 3 judges agreed on this.. aur i think ye wala bench sab se ziada tax aur accounting se related cases decide karta hai usually jaisy...Justice Khosa criminal cases decide kartay hain.. tu aisy judges se accounting principle main ghalti hona.....? Ya shayad lenient rahay?

Waisy IK se lenient rahay ya nahi...lekin NS se bilkol lenient nahi rahay jaisu..NS ne bhi kaha tha ke lagta hia ke IK ke caes main hbi mujhe disqualify kardein ge...waisy hi kia judges ne



Hmmm... iska matlab judges IK ke saath lenient rahay? Waisy unanimuos judgment hia.. all 3 judges agreed on this.. aur i think ye wala bench sab se ziada tax aur accounting se related cases decide karta hai usually jaisy...Justice Khosa criminal cases decide kartay hain.. tu aisy judges se accounting principle main ghalti hona.....? Ya shayad lenient rahay?

Waisy IK se lenient rahay ya nahi...lekin NS se bilkol lenient nahi rahay jaisu..NS ne bhi kaha tha ke lagta hia ke IK ke caes main hbi mujhe disqualify kardein ge...waisy hi kia judges ne





Abb? ..what..if they go in review? Waisy kisi ne abb tak ye point raise nahi kiya..kisi talkshow main bhi...kiun?

Sorry for butting in - IK was never going to have been disqualified - there was not an iota of doubt.

Here's a post of Oct 2nd, 2017 where we were discussing whether IK can be disqualified or not:

Extremely calculated statement; he knows very well that whatever degree of legitimacy is in the current political landscape is due to him being part of it.

Subtract him and experience the fallout - they won't even attempt to arrest him let alone disqualify him and bring the almost crippled system to absolute halt.

Yes, had he been sitting at a position having authority to embezzle public exchequer prior to these transactions it would have been different case.

Secondly, they can't open everything of the past if there is no public office, like if I join any party now, and submit my records for 2018 elections and win, I cannot be disqualified because of my wrongful financial handling in 2013, however, if I had been Minister (read not just an MNA) before 2013 - then I am roasted for sure - however, this will open a pandora box as if I get disqualified then it will be used it as precedence and era of case for case will start.

Anyways...you guys continue shedding more light - am loving it.....

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Thanks @Dil Pakistan for the tag.

Let me share with you the following based on my firsthand info that I became privy to in last one month or so during my visit to Islamabad, Lahore, Multan and Rahim Yar Khan.

1. Actions of Sharif’s in Hudaibiya will come out - no stopping here. Having said this, Shahbaz does hold good relations with power players including judiciary but I am hoping this will not taint their view in his favor.

2. I donot see PMLN stalwarts (Khawaja Asif, Ahsan Iqbal, Saad Rafique, Khaqan Abbasi, Iqbal Jhagra, Mushahidullah, Parvez Rashid, even Nisar) leaving PMLN - I have shared over here several months ago and still stand by it reconfirming with my latest info. There are several types of leaders in PMLN - above ones have aligned themselves far too right - Pro Nawaz. Their exit / fleeing is their political death or at the least stigmatizing them to a pygmy’s level in the next new or splinter party.

3. Nawaz is a dreamer - he cannot start pull crowd no matter what - his voter is not Jalsa type voter- in short you are spot on his politics is not of street power so he can’t do protests like his opponents are capable of - so knowing this fact he will be fool of utter degree to jump into a field that totally belongs to his opponents.

4. You are right here too - many people including @PakSword over here stated Ch Nisar as spent force - I had been repeatedly over here saying exactly what you are saying again because of first hand info re his plans. He never ever intended to leave the party - he wants to have the cake when the baker of the cake is totally out. Refer to #2 above.

5. IK is not given relief - decision was on merit. PMLN and Jang / Geo did usual Disinformation campaign to equate his simple inflow of £ vs outflow of $ case. Kudos to them for doing this successfully.

Let’s say, IK is still considered “least” favorite in Power Brokering circles - again this info is from as higher ups in Army & Bureaucracy as it could be.

Though, situation is favouring him and the wind is perfect

————

Another thing I wanted to share was Nawaz’s worst days are yet to come - abhi tou sirf ghaseeta gaya hai, ragdra abhi baaqi hai.

———-

@Realistic Change Thank you very much - indeed.

My points are mere observations from a distance. I am happy to note that these make (at least) some sense.

I fully agree with you that IK will remain the least favourite for the power brokers (be they inside Pakistan or the international players). he is simply too dangerous for their plans. At the same time, the condition of Pakistan cannot be improved without someone like him in full control.

Yesterday he lashed out at Mir Shakeel, yet again. Mir Shakeel wants to be the "Rupert Murdoch of Pakistan" - although he has committed the ultimate sin by rubbing the Army the wrong way.

Chances of NS starting any mass movement have diminished even further. IK has challenged NS openly yesterday that he (IK) will start a counter movement, if NS starts any movement.
Add the Hudayibya decision to this, and NS is doomed.

When I eluded to PMLn stalwarts, I did not mean people like Kh. Asif, Saad Rafique etc. I meant those from South Punjab and also the so called GADDI NASHEENS (Pir Syal Shareef and Pir Golra Shareef type). These are "hidden" forces of PMLn and win many seats for PMLn to make the govt. in the centre and in Punjab.

I totally agree with you on Ch. Nisar. He will come out at the "right time".

NS worst days are yet to come...politically or legally? On legal front..i dont think...panama bench judges ke calibre ke aur judges hain....mostly judges are basheera and Qazi Faez Isa type.....so legally mujhe nahi lagta ke NS ka tough time aayega.. he will manage his cases and at most..will go in exile like last time..Yes..politically party uss ke haath se zuroor nikal sakti hai
Oh woww... best of luck...

@Farah Sohail and @PakSword : When @Realistic Change will become elected in 2018 - inshaALLAH - then we will start a "tehreek" against him

Get ready...................

 

[Realistic Change]

@Realistic Change Thank you very much - indeed.

My points are mere observations from a distance. I am happy to note that these make (at least) some sense.

I fully agree with you that IK will remain the least favourite for the power brokers (be they inside Pakistan or the international players). he is simply too dangerous for their plans. At the same time, the condition of Pakistan cannot be improved without someone like him in full control.

Yesterday he lashed out at Mir Shakeel, yet again. Mir Shakeel wants to be the "Rupert Murdoch of Pakistan" - although he has committed the ultimate sin by rubbing the Army the wrong way.

Chances of NS starting any mass movement have diminished even further. IK has challenged NS openly yesterday that he (IK) will start a counter movement, if NS starts any movement.
Add the Hudayibya decision to this, and NS is doomed.

When I eluded to PMLn stalwarts, I did not mean people like Kh. Asif, Saad Rafique etc. I meant those from South Punjab and also the so called GADDI NASHEENS (Pir Syal Shareef and Pir Golra Shareef type). These are "hidden" forces of PMLn and win many seats for PMLn to make the govt. in the centre and in Punjab.

I totally agree with you on Ch. Nisar. He will come out at the "right time".




@Farah Sohail and @PakSword : When @Realistic Change will become elected in 2018 - inshaALLAH - then we will start a "tehreek" against him

Get ready...................

Issue with Shahbaz is that he has no say in media as it’s controlled by Maryam and her stooges.

Right wing elements have very little space in any other political party - PTI is trying to use them to their advantage but in all honesty I see them falling back into the lap of whatever final form of PMLN will be - PMLK if health allows and Maryam gets clean chit - for now.

Shahbaz camp has several issues including no consensus national level leader - even Nisar can’t be easily agreed to be their leader.

Situation has turned for Nawaz family - not being ladli family anymore within Sharifs.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Issue with Shahbaz is that he has no say in media as it’s controlled by Maryam and her stooges.

Right wing elements have very little space in any other political party - PTI is trying to use them to their advantage but in all honesty I see them falling back into the lap of whatever final form of PMLN will be - PMLK if health allows and Maryam gets clean chit - for now.

Shahbaz camp has several issues including no consensus national level leader - even Nisar can’t be easily agreed to be their leader.

Situation has turned for Nawaz family - not being ladli family anymore within Sharifs.

Highlighted in red is the real punch. NS had some how kept these people together. All these people will trade souls whoever gives them the best price. NS offered them the highest price but he is gone.

Fight between Maryam and SS, for control will be inevitable - if she gets the boot as well.

Which party's ticket you will have for the elections? - Is it Khadim Hussain Rizvi?

 

[Dastaan]

NS ne aisay hi nahi kaha tha.. mera khayal hai uss ne apni beti (jokay English Literature main MA karnay ke baad Political Science main PhD kar rahi hai) ke saath mil kar yeh verdict parh lia tha..

Yeh parh ke usay laga ke phir dhak hogaya uss ke saath.. usay apni aankhon pe yaqeen hi nahi aaya hoga ke IK ke verdict main bhi meri izzat afzai! woh bhi rach ke!

akram sheikh almaroof Qatari khat walay nai Panama case ka koi 100 baar hawala diya tha iss liyay IK k case main bhi phir nawaz sharif ki izzat krwa baitha. ye justice faisal arab nai usay samjhanay k liyay izafi note likha.

Talk shows main chartered accountants thori aatay hain..

Yeh talat hussain waghaira tou journalism main iss liey gaey thay ke medical college ya engineering university main daakhlay ke liey number pooray nahi thay..

On a serious note.. I don't know what has happened here.. For sure yeh IK se ghalti huee hogi.. kyun ke 2015 main uss ne show kardia tha poora amount..

 

[Farah Sohail]

Nah - I am not saying.....I am just asking your opinion..... someone from Govt., still staunch Nawaz loyalist admitted somethings from which one can easily infer that it was indeed mellowed down (okay let me say it a bit more clearly - two of the three in second bench mellowed it down drastically and changed the trajectory even in presence certain glaring evidences) - and as I stated above; his ragdra is baqi based on the same thing - there are off shoots including huge money laundering and kickback charges (including docs that I had submitted to NAB of his Luxembourg and Dubai transactions - I think @Farah Sohail will remember this conversation we had months ago)

@bold u mean ..verdict after JIT report.....which came on 28th july was mellowed down? 2 of 3 judges mellowed down? But that verdict was written by Ejaz Afzal only na? Tone of verdict was mellowed down or operative part? And why?

--------------------

@PakSword Aap ne IK ka verdict.....ab poora parh liya? Dil khush hogaya hoga na.....poora verdict parh kar?

 

[Realistic Change]

@bold u mean ..verdict after JIT report.....which came on 28th july was mellowed down? 2 of 3 judges mellowed down? But that verdict was written by Ejaz Afzal only na? Tone of verdict was mellowed down or operative part? And why?

I am just asking - you think that it was mellowed down decision or was it an expected one?

As the person, I am referring is Fed Minister and casual conversation re verdict (as in overall) was discussed and contributing factors.

Hence, I though I should get your and @PakSword ’s opinion on the matter.

It’s for understanding your point of view.