PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@Verve @masterchief_mirza @PAKISTANFOREVER @Ace of Spades @peagle @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Musings @21st Century Vampire

Paks!

Once again the Scope of this thread is NOT the good Indians ... neither their love or hate for us. Immaterial in this thread.

We were/are trying to Rationally, Logically and Systematically establish, among Ourselves, the Indian End Game!!!

Once again ... fallen for the same well designed pitfalls and distracted. Tanzeem!

I have put together some Markers... what is your take on them... what can we conclude from them... what other things are missing that PakPosters can add to...

IndianStatecraft.

Not the good Indians or their faith or culture or whatnots... Out of Scope!

Please, let us stick to topic and not get distracted by the Indian politics or %s... immaterial!!!

Est Bellum.

Mangus

EXACTLY!

As far as Pakistanis are concerned, we could not care less if there are "good", "bad", racist, liberal or WHATEVER type of indians out there. What we are concerned about is the indian ruling elites' aims and designs against Pakistan and Pakistanis. That's all. NOTHING ELSE. All else is just irrelevant meaningless conjecture. Based on current and historical events, it is VERY evident that india wants to destroy Pakistan and genocide the Pakistani people. After which india wants to act as an obstacle against the Chinese superpower/hyperpower on behalf of america and the West. THAT is the ultimate end-game. EVERY Pakistani must understand this. There is NO chance of peace of dialogue with india. That is permanently dead and buried. All we need to know about india is that if there is a war between us and them, how would we best annihilate and wipe india and indians of the face of the earth? How would we permanently eradicate our enemy? That is EXACTLY what our nukes are for. That is the ONLY thing stopping india from attacking us.


At the end of the day, we are Pakistani nationalists and we look at everything from that perspective

 

[masterchief_mirza]

This, too, is a constant feature - the sneer based on our ignorance of what the numbers REALLY mean, the underlying truths that support your thesis but cannot be found in numbers and so are enshrined as axiomatic, beyond the need of proof.

Of course these 'mean' nothing of any substance, my dear sophist. If they did, they would prove deadly to your arguments; they cannot be allowed, ab initio, to mean anything.

I understand.

Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner.

Ok. Instead of waxing lyrical about how awesome your brigade of course correctors are, put your money where your mouth is. Take a straw poll of Indian members on pdf. Let's assume that the population of Indian pdf'ers is already going to be LESS hindutva hard-core than the folks on rakshakh Indian fora - where folks like @Shantanu_Left would be summarily banned just for existing. I dare you Joe. Ask the Indian pdf-ers here if they agree with the 4 declarations of war on Pakistan (any of them or all of them) that India has undertaken in the last two years. You may be shocked with the results.

In fact, if you want it a bit easier, leave Pakistan out of it. Just ask them if they think the CAA NRC act is non-discriminatory or discriminatory, and whether they're okay with it if they think it is discriminatory.

is that you should stop this self-indulgent conspiracy theory

Here's what you were trying to say beyond the eloquent and melodious preamble. I liked the green tights bit - huzzah!

But yeah....it's a conspiracy theory because it probably doesn't suit your narrative.

 

[El Sidd]

Ok. Instead of waxing lyrical about how awesome your brigade of course correctors are, put your money where your mouth is. Take a straw poll of Indian members on pdf. Let's assume that the population of Indian pdf'ers is already going to be LESS hindutva hard-core than the folks on rakshakh Indian fora - where folks like @Shantanu_Left would be summarily banned just for existing. I dare you Joe. Ask the Indian pdf-ers here if they agree with the 4 declarations of war on Pakistan (any of them or all of them) that India has undertaken in the last two years. You may be shocked with the results.

In fact, if you want it a bit easier, leave Pakistan out of it. Just ask them if they think the CAA NRC act is non-discriminatory or discriminatory, and whether they're okay with it if they think it is discriminatory.


Here's what you were trying to say beyond the eloquent and melodious preamble. I liked the green tights bit - huzzah!

But yeah....it's a conspiracy theory because it probably doesn't suit your narrative.

India is an existential threat to World Peace.

Anyone who believes that Indian Union did not have expansionist designs a minute after her alleged independence on 15th August, 1947 is an intellectually dishonest person.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@Verve @masterchief_mirza @PAKISTANFOREVER @Ace of Spades @peagle @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Musings @21st Century Vampire

Paks!

Once again the Scope of this thread is NOT the good Indians ... neither their love or hate for us. Immaterial in this thread.

We were/are trying to Rationally, Logically and Systematically establish, among Ourselves, the Indian End Game!!!

Once again ... fallen for the same well designed pitfalls and distracted. Tanzeem!

I have put together some Markers... what is your take on them... what can we conclude from them... what other things are missing that PakPosters can add to...

IndianStatecraft.

Not the good Indians or their faith or culture or whatnots... Out of Scope!

Please, let us stick to topic and not get distracted by the Indian politics or %s... immaterial!!!

Est Bellum.

Mangus

Yet silencing them - either by banning or ignoring their tirades - leaves Pakistanis vulnerable to the slow encroachment of aman ki asha. This in itself is a risk.

 

[El Sidd]

Yet silencing them - either by banning or ignoring their tirades - leaves Pakistanis vulnerable to the slow encroachment of aman ki asha. This is itself is a risk.

Pakistanis are innocent gullible people. For us ignorance is still a bliss.

 

[letsrock]

Long thread. I may post more later. But at very high level - anyone who consciously identifies himself (as opposed to those who are just born there )as an indian can never be for any good for anything including for people living in India. It doesn't matter if he identifies himself as sanghis or not. Infact non-sanghis tend to be worse.

Given a choice the world would be much better place without that fake identity and the violence it engenders. The world is forced to engage them as they inherited the British bureaucracy through something called "freedom" and keep arming themselves by tyrannically exploiting the labor and lives of people living under them. Some people can play them well, some even get some fun out of them.

I personally prefer to talk in a straightforward way and call their bluff wherever i may.

 

[xeuss]

Yet silencing them - either by banning or ignoring their tirades - leaves Pakistanis vulnerable to the slow encroachment of aman ki asha. This is itself is a risk.

That would mean you are against better relations between the two people. You don't come across as that kind of person. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yet silencing them - either by banning or ignoring their tirades - leaves Pakistanis vulnerable to the slow encroachment of aman ki asha. This is itself is a risk.

That is actually a very pertinent point. Racist indians and modi expose our own traitors within Pakistan. It shows the average Pakistani the genocidal hatred indians have against us and that peace with them will NEVER be possible. This in turn exposes treacherous Pakistanis who want peace and exchanges with india and indians. Racist indians are actually a boon for us.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Yet silencing them - either by banning or ignoring their tirades - leaves Pakistanis vulnerable to the slow encroachment of aman ki asha. This is itself is a risk.

Oye Putar Pakistan dae!

I, for one, am in full support of the good Indians of all hues i.e 1.5 varriation of Orange... to be here and do their thing.

Aman ka tamasha is, indeed, a component of IndianHybridwar on Pakistan!!!

The entire premise of this thread is to understand IndianStatecraft even before the inception of the GeoConstruct by the Imperial Enterprise.

Yet, as you can see... how successfully the Focus is diverted and all the energy is soacked by totally irrelevant... goes on to show that Our Quest to Understand the IndianState's End Game is the right one.

One just wishes PakPosters to be not distracted at all!

SOP of derail, sabotaging is:

Dismissal
Denial
Ridicule
Persoanl attacks
Linguistic Show-off
Blaming Paks with 'comprehension problems'
EchoChamber
CircleJerking
Racism accusations by the society members where the Classification of Ubbermensch till Unternmensch is a Daily Practice
Calling Jihadis/Islamists
Failed State
etc.

And yes, we need to counter such things but not by falling into these well designed triggers but by Reason and exposing with Data/Fact the FakeNarratives of well-masked Facists ...

@Ace of Spades I guess we need to compose the End Game ourselves and hopefully, PakPosters won't fall into pitfalls of distractors... from thence we build further OurDiscourse of PakPositivism!

@peagle PakBrother mine, chip in... and @masterchief_mirza Your Lord Mischiefship please also help us build it from Statecraft pov ONLY!

Mangus

PS. Forgot to mention 'You need help' is often used...

 

[peagle]

@Verve @masterchief_mirza @PAKISTANFOREVER @Ace of Spades @peagle @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Musings @21st Century Vampire

Paks!

Once again the Scope of this thread is NOT the good Indians ... neither their love or hate for us. Immaterial in this thread.

We were/are trying to Rationally, Logically and Systematically establish, among Ourselves, the Indian End Game!!!

Once again ... fallen for the same well designed pitfalls and distracted. Tanzeem!

I have put together some Markers... what is your take on them... what can we conclude from them... what other things are missing that PakPosters can add to...

IndianStatecraft.

Not the good Indians or their faith or culture or whatnots... Out of Scope!

Please, let us stick to topic and not get distracted by the Indian politics or %s... immaterial!!!

Est Bellum.

Mangus

Exactly,
To counter an opponent is not to be a mirror, but use means that will get you results.

Blacket judgments and statements achieve nothing except ignorance and ignorance will get you killed. That's why the Soviet Union is in the dustbin of history. Because they were cut off from most of the world and had very little originality in their system and limited space for creative thinking in all spheres of life. This creativity comes by having an open society, not cutting yourself off from anybody. You've achieved nothing by cutting off Israel (please don't derail, it is just an example).

Firstly, we must recognize how the Indian mindset sees us, the triangular dichotomy of Individual, Collective, and the State is how they see us. Recognize it, because it is important.

Secondly, the plan has to be to move forward, but not ignore them or cut them off, maintain the status quo, whilst building a new reality, a new future.

Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a possible and logical alternative.
A combined population of 500 million > and growing > probably will stabilise at 800 million > combine that with Chinese partnership > Arab world partnership (they will come running if we get our act together), that makes for genuine prosperous possible future without active Indian involvement and possibly a different outcome in our relations with India > with the proposed setup being established India will be forced to review its hateful stance.

The Canadian population is 10% the size of America and Mexico about 30%, yet they account for half or more of American trade. The combined population of 480 million and won't be growing much more as it has reached relative stability. European Union 450 million. ECO will and can create an enormous market.

The countries in the ECO have a sufficient technological base, and enough financial resources combined with an untapped human resource potential, China will be a happy and willing partner.

Such an idea is the future > if these ideas are not mentioned or discussed they die, we seem busier following the line followed by many before us. Criticizing without being critical, being critical takes you a step closer to a solution, by just criticizing, you drown in your tears.

Find a direction and make all the effort to reach it, as china did, the future will deliver by itself.
Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a direction.

 

[Verve]

I propose that we NOT reply to any Indians on this thread .... there is nothing worse for these supremacists!

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Exactly,
To counter an opponent is not to be a mirror, but use means that will get you results.

Blacket judgments and statements achieve nothing except ignorance and ignorance will get you killed. That's why the Soviet Union is in the dustbin of history. Because they were cut off from most of the world and had very little originality in their system and limited space for creative thinking in all spheres of life. This creativity comes by having an open society, not cutting yourself off from anybody. You've achieved nothing by cutting off Israel (please don't derail, it is just an example).

Firstly, we must recognize how the Indian mindset sees us, the triangular dichotomy of Individual, Collective, and the State is how they see us. Recognize it, because it is important.

Secondly, the plan has to be to move forward, but not ignore them or cut them off, maintain the status quo, whilst building a new reality, a new future.

Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a possible and logical alternative.
A combined population of 500 million > and growing > probably will stabilise at 800 million > combine that with Chinese partnership > Arab world partnership (they will come running if we get our act together), that makes for genuine prosperous possible future without active Indian involvement and possibly a different outcome in our relations with India > with the proposed setup being established India will be forced to review its hateful stance.

The Canadian population is 10% the size of America and Mexico about 30%, yet they account for half or more of American trade. The combined population of 480 million and won't be growing much more as it has reached relative stability. European Union 450 million. ECO will and can create an enormous market.

The countries in the ECO have a sufficient technological base, and enough financial resources combined with an untapped human resource potential, China will be a happy and willing partner.

Such an idea is the future > if these ideas are not mentioned or discussed they die, we seem busier following the line followed by many before us. Criticizing without being critical, being critical takes you a step closer to a solution, by just criticizing, you drown in your tears.

Find a direction and make all the effort to reach it, as china did, the future will deliver by itself.
Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a direction.

NOT happening. The extreme hatred between Pakistanis and indians will ensure the above NEVER happens.

Oye Putar Pakistan dae!

I, for one, am in full support of the good Indians of all hues i.e 1.5 varriation of Orange... to be here and do their thing.

Aman ka tamasha is, indeed, a component of IndianHybridwar on Pakistan!!!

The entire premise of this thread is to understand IndianStatecraft even before the inception of the GeoConstruct by the Imperial Enterprise.

Yet, as you can see... how successfully the Focus is diverted and all the energy is soacked by totally irrelevant... goes on to show that Our Quest to Understand the IndianState's End Game is the right one.

One just wishes PakPosters to be not distracted at all!

SOP of derail, sabotaging is:

Dismissal
Denial
Ridicule
Persoanl attacks
Linguistic Show-off
Blaming Paks with 'comprehension problems'
EchoChamber
CircleJerking
Racism accusations by the society members where the Classification of Ubbermensch till Unternmensch is a Daily Practice
Calling Jihadis/Islamists
Failed State
etc.

And yes, we need to counter such things but not by falling into these well designed triggers but by Reason and exposing with Data/Fact the FakeNarratives of well-masked Facists ...

@Ace of Spades I guess we need to compose the End Game ourselves and hopefully, PakPosters won't fall into pitfalls of distractors... from thence we build further OurDiscourse of PakPositivism!

@peagle PakBrother mine, chip in... and @masterchief_mirza Your Lord Mischiefship please also help us build it from Statecraft pov ONLY!

Mangus

PS. Forgot to mention 'You need help' is often used...

We need to promote the following:

india = BAD

NOT - india = GOOD.

 

[IMARV]

I dont think this thread was meant to be for a code of conduct atleast not a code as in the same meaning the Indian code of conduct was made. The OP was unclear on what he wanted and i would have liked him to actually explain or bring forth what is he trying to ask of posters or recommend to posters ( the style definitely doesnt help). This is also the reason why the thread has been going here and there and revolving we have come to the question, that we reach in every thread, whether Indians should be banned or not?

@Mangus Ortus Novem what are you trying to say?

You speak of Pakpositivism but havent defined it in the form of the positivist theory nor brought forth your new understanding of the theory through the spectrum of Pakistan and its populace or are you using positivism as in the 'positive' word sense rather than the theoretical sense of positivism? because that takes the thread in an entirely different view.

Secondly you speak of a code of conduct but a code of conduct is not just against a set group only but utilized in all that is said and done since the end objective of a moral code is personal moralistic stand and growth. It is entirely self. You also havent highlighted what should be the code or how it should be implemented and in what regards.
Infact the way the OP was mentioned it seemed less positivist or code of conduct and more a study of Indians. Its a research project meant to discern their weakness, their stand, their views, what they do and what they want and what they like. The OP is geared towards academic research rather than self moral management. Is the objective as such? However if it is then i am afraid it is unneeded. In your later posts you have already presented most of the conclusions that Indians are such and such thus you have already reached the end of you research and have drawn your conclusions, as evidenced by later posts and many here already have done as such. If that is already done and indianess, as you put it, is already studied then why bother doing it again. Havent the goals been reached already and conclusions determined and underlined.

Don't sweat over his another colorful troll post. He has his audience and by invoking different hindu diety in his own way, he is catering to them. You wont fit in.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Exactly,
To counter an opponent is not to be a mirror, but use means that will get you results.

Blacket judgments and statements achieve nothing except ignorance and ignorance will get you killed. That's why the Soviet Union is in the dustbin of history. Because they were cut off from most of the world and had very little originality in their system and limited space for creative thinking in all spheres of life. This creativity comes by having an open society, not cutting yourself off from anybody. You've achieved nothing by cutting off Israel (please don't derail, it is just an example).

Firstly, we must recognize how the Indian mindset sees us, the triangular dichotomy of Individual, Collective, and the State is how they see us. Recognize it, because it is important.

Secondly, the plan has to be to move forward, but not ignore them or cut them off, maintain the status quo, whilst building a new reality, a new future.

Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a possible and logical alternative.
A combined population of 500 million > and growing > probably will stabilise at 800 million > combine that with Chinese partnership > Arab world partnership (they will come running if we get our act together), that makes for genuine prosperous possible future without active Indian involvement and possibly a different outcome in our relations with India > with the proposed setup being established India will be forced to review its hateful stance.

The Canadian population is 10% the size of America and Mexico about 30%, yet they account for half or more of American trade. The combined population of 480 million and won't be growing much more as it has reached relative stability. European Union 450 million. ECO will and can create an enormous market.

The countries in the ECO have a sufficient technological base, and enough financial resources combined with an untapped human resource potential, China will be a happy and willing partner.

Such an idea is the future > if these ideas are not mentioned or discussed they die, we seem busier following the line followed by many before us. Criticizing without being critical, being critical takes you a step closer to a solution, by just criticizing, you drown in your tears.

Find a direction and make all the effort to reach it, as china did, the future will deliver by itself.
Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) is a direction.

O Yaar,

Exactly the point... now we are moving forward.

Things need to be given correct names for them to have meaning.

With Sino-Iranian Deal the Calculus has changed and with Ladakh being a PLA camping ground... the IndianState's End Game has taken a few hits... neither out nor completely out. It will be highest folly to even imagine so.

Clarity! That is what is purpose of this thread among us Paks.

You did an exquisite job right at the beginning of this thread by Contextualising and the properly Framing the ground situation.

We are so conditioned into Atuo-Emotional-Reactions regarding the good Indians that we loose sight of the StrategicObjectives.

Mocking the good Indians about the gifts of DeityCow or poverty or toilet habbits beats the purpose and its in essence defeating strategy.

We need to simply accept that the India, Indians... are there to our east with their own unique way of living and ethos... and that is that!

Apart for PakKashmiris in IoJK we have NO beef with the good Indians.

However, our moral support mustn't need to diminish against the Violence directed at Muslims of MaqboozaHindustan.


Now Sinofication, economically and geopolitically, of ECO has already started... cautious, slow process but the BRI is the Chinese Monroe Doctorine sans Wars n Destruction.

IndianState's opposition to BRI and putting up $500mln to sabotage CPEC reveals the contours of the Indian End Game.

Frankly, whether it can succeed or not is immaterial at this point in this thread... what matters is Rational Clarity and not Emotional Reactions.

It was perhaps the Desire of History that we have established a rather decent (by no means world class) MIC. And now we can gear toward broader Industrialism and that can only come from Restructing PakState from ground up and Education, Education, Education!!!

@Ace of Spades and I have in one thread made a BreakDown of the 'We are 1 Bln strong Market' just to see what the good Indians were talking about. Data showed it to be otherwise.

It is the Race for ThirdActor in OurRegion, includling ME and NorthAfrica ... I always state Pakistan is The Heartland for a reason.

Anyhow, happy that we are back on track to further Our Quest to Discet IndianState's End Game!

Mangus

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Ok. Instead of waxing lyrical about how awesome your brigade of course correctors are, put your money where your mouth is. Take a straw poll of Indian members on pdf. Let's assume that the population of Indian pdf'ers is already going to be LESS hindutva hard-core than the folks on rakshakh Indian fora - where folks like @Shantanu_Left would be summarily banned just for existing. I dare you Joe. Ask the Indian pdf-ers here if they agree with the 4 declarations of war on Pakistan (any of them or all of them) that India has undertaken in the last two years. You may be shocked with the results.

In fact, if you want it a bit easier, leave Pakistan out of it. Just ask them if they think the CAA NRC act is non-discriminatory or discriminatory, and whether they're okay with it if they think it is discriminatory.


Here's what you were trying to say beyond the eloquent and melodious preamble. I liked the green tights bit - huzzah!

But yeah....it's a conspiracy theory because it probably doesn't suit your narrative.

I can reply to that one. I would 100% agree that CAA NRC act is discriminatory against Indian Muslims.

I can also confirm that the abrogation of Article 370 is a breach of trust of Kashmiris in India. It dilutes their identity and makes them effectively stateless in their own region. It's a cruel act that deserves condemnation of all Indian liberals. The challenge is, however, many Indian liberals are indoctrinated by Indian government propaganda. Very few in India would dare to question their own government. This is because they fear for their jobs, livelihoods, and the safety of their families. However, Indian liberals who moved overseas or took another country's citizenship, such as Ashok Swain, or myself, have no trouble calling a spade a spade.

To the question of "Act of War", yes the Indian government's attack on Feb 26-27 was an Act of War. But it was more of a PR exercise for Narendra Modi than an actual invasion. It was a propaganda war. But if you want to get technical, it was an act of war.

Re: Article 370 abrogation of Kashmiris, I don't think it was an Act of War against Pakistan. It was certainly a human rights abuse of Kashmiris living within India, but I don't consider it an act of war against Pakistan.