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There are numerous problems with your gross simplifications Joe. You know it and so do I - I just don't have the time to go into depth deconstructing this fairy tale.

The essential error, the elephant in the room, is not my simplifications; it is of those of you who want your own simplifications to be considered instead.

Think about it.
 
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lol no,
they are among those who recognize how we have helped the Afghan people, but I don't trust any of them, they will backstab you if you don't take care.

But especially the Tajik and Uzbeks among others.
I have never seen a nation or a group of people be so ungrateful, they are still enjoying our hospitality and still, they hate us to a point of helping our enemies do harm to Pakistan.

I have never in my life heard Pakistanis say bad things about Afghans, until recently,
because we have had enough of that ungrateful lot.

India supported and help the Soviets kill nearly a million Afghans, that's all forgiven and forgotten.
We give millions of them safety and a home, and support them in their fight against their invaders, but they hate us, biting the hand that feeds you.

Brother, we may discuss this in a relevant thread later.
 
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I just don't have the time to go into depth deconstructing this fairy tale. Your 39% or 31% or whatever it is doesn't actually mean anything of substance.

This, too, is a constant feature - the sneer based on our ignorance of what the numbers REALLY mean, the underlying truths that support your thesis but cannot be found in numbers and so are enshrined as axiomatic, beyond the need of proof.

Of course these 'mean' nothing of any substance, my dear sophist. If they did, they would prove deadly to your arguments; they cannot be allowed, ab initio, to mean anything.

I understand. :D

Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner.
 
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lol no,
they are among those who recognize how we have helped the Afghan people, but I don't trust any of them, they will backstab you if you don't take care.

But especially the Tajik and Uzbeks among others.
I have never seen a nation or a group of people be so ungrateful, they are still enjoying our hospitality and still, they hate us to a point of helping our enemies do harm to Pakistan.

I have never in my life heard Pakistanis say bad things about Afghans, until recently,
because we have had enough of that ungrateful lot.

India supported and help the Soviets kill nearly a million Afghans, that's all forgiven and forgotten.
We give millions of them safety and a home, and support them in their fight against their invaders, but they hate us, biting the hand that feeds you.




Right now, Afghans are mass killing each other ruthlessly. I doubt they have ANY room in their hearts for ANY love for Pakistan.
 
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Firstly, turnout is hugely important when declaring a vote result as representative of opinion - 67%, which is good but that leaves 33% whose votes you don't know about.

Who told you that? It has been analysed into the dust. 15% core constituency, 15% the exasperated, anti-incumbency elements disgusted with the corruption of the allies in the last UPA and 3% opportunists.

As I keep pointing out in my Cassandra avatar, none as blind as those who refuse to see.

Secondly, India uses a first past the post electoral system, which is how Modi came to power. That percentage translates into an overwhelming absolute majority of seats, partly due to misrepresentation of constituencies (but, all democracies are broken in this way so I won't dwell on that specific issue).

True. Proportional representation tackles some of these issues, but raises others of its own.

Your point being?

What is undeniably true in India's case is that in every region or state or territory represented by BJP in parliament, there are more than enough bhakts to drown out the sane voices or make them cower in fear. Muslims are cleverly diluted beyond the point of any meaningful ability to represent their interests. By further cornering security apparatus, media and industry, BJP and their quiet sympathisers have absolute control over your life and the narrative you are forced to read.

True, O Sage. I still don't see where this is headed. The deep blue sea, perhaps.

Even if your group of merry liberals wish to influence this reality, you can't.

Break out the green tights, boys, get the wimples out, girls. How's the mead, cookie; you planning to take longer on the venison?

You are well aware that 39% does NOT represent the mass effect of bhakt opinion in India and is an underestimation in all probability. This is why one cannot use vote results (even after assuming they're free and fair) as a representation of opinion on specific social/political issues. This much should be obvious. Vote results are meant to elect a parliament, nothing else can be extrapolated from them without corroborating evidence. So if you wish for folks to believe your "silent cuddly majority" exists, prove it.

Let me understand this.

If I produce numbers, that is meaningless, because it is not the numbers that matter, it is the deep, underlying verities of human existence. There is much more to that human existence than numbers (except when we have numbers to put up, when of course, a rational discourse demands, even insists, on numbers).

All the whispers in the room must be accounted for.

Indeed.

Spare us the cuddles. Stick to the res gestae. All Indian members on this forum ask is that when we converse on subjects of mutual interest, we should not be greeted by the storm of bad behaviour about which members of this forum anathematise the behaviour in other fora. All I deplore, personally, without for one moment seeking to involve my compatriots in that deadly dangerous behaviour, is that you should stop this self-indulgent conspiracy theory caucus, and return to the world of reality.

I know, it's challenging.
 
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Absolutely No need. We are better off not holding dialogues and interactions with you Incorrigible Indians!
Understand your perspective well

still.. your protestations aside

we just can not wish each other away

if only it was that simple

us randos need to back and forth with more than just the respective official narratives

even if we still end up not agreeing on most points and sticking closely to our national narratives lol

not an aman ka tamasha guy here but we should talk, right ?
 
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@Joe Shearer

You keep deflecting and avoiding simple questions.

Coming back to your 61% ... what portion of that are Hindus? And what portion of 39% who voted for your Fascists are Hindus?
 
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@Joe Shearer

You keep deflecting and avoiding simple questions.

Coming back to your 61% ... what portion of that are Hindus? And what portion of 39% who voted for your Fascists are Hindus?

I have not deflected a single question, but answered as best as I could from memory. If you expect me to draft and present you with a white paper on the subject, aren't you being a little optimistic?

Ask for things that i can tell you without research, even if it is research on Google on the Internet. You can do that just as easily yourself; what you are doing now is building a case with no effort on your side other than to ask more and more detail till the point comes where you can say,"They keep deflecting and avoiding simple questions."
 
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Understand your perspective well

still.. your protestations aside

we just can not wish each other away

if only it was that simple

us randos need to back and forth with more than just the respective official narratives

even if we still end up not agreeing on most points and sticking closely to our national narratives lol

not an aman ka tamasha guy here but we should talk, right ?





The BEST way forward for all parties concerned is that there is PERMANENTLY NO talking, interaction or ANY dialogue WHATSOEVER between Pakistan and indian. 73 years of history have taught that such interactions between these two nations ALWAYS comes to NOTHING. There is now left to say or do. Just simple permanent cut-off.
 
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Can you please share some data on exactly when Nehru and Gandhi-ji oppressed these Pakistanis? I think their grievances are genuine but I can't find much substance of blame on our side.

Give me a couple of weeks to find an instance. The India-Pakistan Bureau for Statistical Misinformation is already fully engaged dealing with a lazy sod who wants to know the parochial breakdown of the vote in the last two general elections.
 
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Understand your perspective well

still.. your protestations aside

we just can not wish each other away

if only it was that simple

us randos need to back and forth with more than just the respective official narratives

even if we still end up not agreeing on most points and sticking closely to our national narratives lol

not an aman ka tamasha guy here but we should talk, right ?

We have nothing to talk about with Indian Hindus!

I have not deflected a single question, but answered as best as I could from memory. If you expect me to draft and present you with a white paper on the subject, aren't you being a little optimistic?

Ask for things that i can tell you without research, even if it is research on Google on the Internet. You can do that just as easily yourself; what you are doing now is building a case with no effort on your side other than to ask more and more detail till the point comes where you can say,"They keep deflecting and avoiding simple questions."

You kept quoting a figure and then either avoided or deflected questions on that figure.

Don't state something if you are unwilling to explain it further!
 
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You kept quoting a figure and then either avoided or deflected questions on that figure.

Don't state something if you are unwilling to explain it further!

Beyond a point, you cannot keep asking for more and more minute dissections without your purpose becoming clear - that being to avoid admitting that you have nothing to offer instead, and depend entirely on an effort to reach a point of the most minute detail - not because you need it to prove a point one way or the other, but because it defers the moment of truth.
 
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@Verve @masterchief_mirza @PAKISTANFOREVER @Ace of Spades @peagle @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Musings @21st Century Vampire

Paks!

Once again the Scope of this thread is NOT the good Indians ... neither their love or hate for us. Immaterial in this thread.

We were/are trying to Rationally, Logically and Systematically establish, among Ourselves, the Indian End Game!!!

Once again ... fallen for the same well designed pitfalls and distracted. Tanzeem!

I have put together some Markers... what is your take on them... what can we conclude from them... what other things are missing that PakPosters can add to...

IndianStatecraft.


Not the good Indians or their faith or culture or whatnots... Out of Scope!

Please, let us stick to topic and not get distracted by the Indian politics or %s... immaterial!!!

Est Bellum.

Mangus
 
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