PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I agree with the basic premise of your argument, it is indeed where we are heading, but, for me, it is a shame, we should be able to look both ways and see friends and brothers to our left and right.

The fact is Pakistan's unique position has placed us at a junction where we rightfully can claim heritage from South Asia, Central Asia, Arabic cultures, Persian cultures, Turkic cultures, Afghan cultures, and even China to a lesser degree. We have historical links to each of these civilizations.

Very few countries in this world can make such claims, to ignore an essential part of cultural and linguistic heritage would be extremely unwise.
Yes we are not where we should be, but, does that mean you give up, I say no, never.

Mangus, if I understand him, has the right idea, let us explore this relationship so we can protect ourselves but at the same time show the Indians the folly of their ways. Like it or not, we are a part of the same cultural family, it's not to say full-stop, only them and no-one else. As previously mentioned we carry with us a rich history that spreads to every direction and into different cultures. Enjoy this unique heritage that we have, rather than get exasperated and cut one of them off completely.

But, I do agree with you that, we 110% need to make more of an effort to increase people to people and academic contact with all the others, which sadly is lacking.

I want to say more, but I hope the essence of my point is on display.

Modern day Pakistanis have cultural and historical links to less than 5% of modern day indians. In terms of percentages, we have far greater cultural, historical and racial links to both Afghanistan and Iran. Hence we should be promoting a greater understanding and interactions with these two nations as opposed to those who are our eternal permanent enemies.

 

[peagle]

Modern day Pakistanis have cultural and historical links to less than 5% of modern day indians. In terms of percentages, we have far greater cultural, historical and racial links to both Afghanistan and Iran. Hence we should be promoting a greater understanding and interactions with these two nations as opposed to those who are our eternal permanent enemies.

We both understand each other and I don't really want to derail this thread, 5% or 50% is irrelevant. I'm just saying please don't close that door. Ghussa apni jaga, I feel that too but let us be practical. People have emotional links across that border, let us recognise that.

On the other side, to the West, North and the South, I agree with you many times over, it is shameful how little we know them on a people to people and academic level.

Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) has existed since 1985, a platform designed for that very purpose you desire, but you don't hear about it anymore. It still exists, they have Heads of state summits, there is a permanent secretariat, but it is nowhere to be found.

Start a thread or section or whatever it is called (excuse my ignorance), so only people from ECO member countries can contribute, and develop understandings. Although I have a feeling the Afghans will be playing the Indian role in that space.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We both understand each other and I don't really want to derail this thread, 5% or 50% is irrelevant. I'm just saying please don't close that door. Ghussa apni jaga, I feel that too but let us be practical. People have emotional links across that border, let us recognise that.

On the other side, to the West, North and the South, I agree with you many times over, it is shameful how little we know them on a people to people and academic level.

Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO) has existed since 1985, a platform designed for that very purpose you desire, but you don't hear about it anymore. It still exists, they have Heads of state summits, there is a permanent secretariat, but it is nowhere to be found.

Start a thread or section or whatever it is called (excuse my ignorance), so only people from ECO member countries can contribute, and develop understandings. Although I have a feeling the Afghans will be playing the Indian role in that space.

Asking us Pakistanis not to close the door to the indian threat is like asking the Jews to not close the door to the Nazi German threat.

The sooner we cut of ALL links and interactions with india and indians, the better for Pakistan.

 

[peagle]

Asking us Pakistanis not to close the door to the indian threat is like asking the Jews to not close the door to the Nazi German threat.

The sooner we cut of ALL links and interactions with india and indians, the better for Pakistan.

lol
sir, yes sir.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

From our perspective as far as indian is concerned, ALL we need to know is how to fight india in case of a war as it is our eternal permanent enemy. That's it. NOTHING else. There is NOTHING else Pakistanis can learn from having discourse with indians. It always ends up in racism or trolling anyway. That's the reality.

Why do we need to understand the mindset of Abu Jahl and rest of Makkan Mushrikeen? We only need to understand how to defeat them. That is the only thing we need to learn from them.

Regarding some posters claims that there are indeed some good Indian Hindus, unfortunately none of those exist on this forum. I have never even met any in real life, and I have extensive experience with them. Maybe there are some negligible number of them, sure. However they are irrelevant.

We only need to understand how to finish the job of our ancestral dynasties, there is no more need for any aman ki asha.

There is no reason that Indians should be allowed to derail our threads, we give them too much of a break. I even see Indians posting nonsense in Pakistani political discussions, Turk/Iran/Arab subforums, and world affairs.

Modern day Pakistanis have cultural and historical links to less than 5% of modern day indians. In terms of percentages, we have far greater cultural, historical and racial links to both Afghanistan and Iran. Hence we should be promoting a greater understanding and interactions with these two nations as opposed to those who are our eternal permanent enemies.

If Afghan kings were more receptive, Pakistan could have easily merged with Afghanistan at the time. However they were shameless puppets who even sold the people of FATA for British government checks.

Now that Afghanistan has gotten a representative government, all our focus should be on improving ties and pushing Pakistani influence there. Afghanistan is the gateway to Central Asia, which is our backyard. For too long have we ignored this region.

Our relationship with India is over. Let it die its natural death and focus elsewhere, where that effort would be more fruitful.

Asking us Pakistanis not to close the door to the indian threat is like asking the Jews to not close the door to the Nazi German threat.

The sooner we cut of ALL links and interactions with india and indians, the better for Pakistan.

"We are same" from our side of the border.

My relatives and loved ones did not die in the Indian sponsored killing fields in East Punjab and South Kashmir so that we can pretend nothing happened and "we are same."

Although I have a feeling the Afghans will be playing the Indian role in that space.

Taliban? Lol.

Locking the thread temporarily,
let me clean up some reports & i will start with clean up process on this thread. Till then, lets jam that hype!!

Attention:
For those, whose posts have been deleted please stay away from thread with your off-topic discussions.

I did the same for Indian members the other day & a thread was dedicated for them on CoC. Same is being asked here, let Pakistani members to discuss their CoC in peace too.

If any more reports from this thread are received, member will be banned from replying in the thread & infraction issued.

Clean up process for thread is still on going, will open once all reports are cleared up

Update:
Thread is Open for discussion. have mercy on mods please

Sir, all due respect, this is not a Code of Conduct for Pakistani members.

I do not think we need such a thing. It is only to reach a consensus on how to prevent our topics from being derailed.

The focus is on revealing hypocrisy of the Indian state. I agree that we should up our game to a more intellectual level as Mangus stated.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Why do we need to understand the mindset of Abu Jahl and rest of Makkan Mushrikeen? We only need to understand how to defeat them. That is the only thing we need to learn from them.

Regarding some posters claims that there are indeed some good Indian Hindus, unfortunately none of those exist on this forum. I have never even met any in real life, and I have extensive experience with them. Maybe there are some negligible number of them, sure. However they are irrelevant.

We only need to understand how to finish the job of our ancestral dynasties, there is no more need for any aman ki asha.

There is no reason that Indians should be allowed to derail our threads, we give them too much of a break. I even see Indians posting nonsense in Pakistani political discussions, Turk/Iran/Arab subforums, and world affairs.








If Afghan kings were more receptive, Pakistan could have easily merged with Afghanistan at the time. However they were shameless puppets who even sold the people of FATA for British government checks.

Now that Afghanistan has gotten a representative government, all our focus should be on improving ties and pushing Pakistani influence there. Afghanistan is the gateway to Central Asia, which is our backyard. For too long have we ignored this region.

Our relationship with India is over. Let it die its natural death and focus elsewhere, where that effort would be more fruitful.



"We are same" from our side of the border.

My relatives and loved ones did not die in the Indian sponsored killing fields in East Punjab and South Kashmir so that we can pretend nothing happened and "we are same."



Taliban? Lol.



Sir, all due respect, this is not a Code of Conduct for Pakistani members.

I do not think we need such a thing. It is only to reach a consensus on how to prevent our topics from being derailed.

The focus is on revealing hypocrisy of the Indian state. I agree that we should up our game to a more intellectual level as Mangus stated.

EXACTLY!

I agree that there is NOTHING we need to learn from indians or to even understand them. ALL we need to know is how to liquidate indians if we have a war with them. NOTHING else.

You mentioned a really good point in that our main current foreign policy should be to neutralize and stabilize the situation in Afghanistan. Right now, the Afghans are killing eachother and blaming it on Pakistan. We need to somehow stop this.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Patriots like @PAKISTANFOREVER or @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan have been here for a while and they have the experience to see through it and eventually get p1ssed off with - unfortunately branding ALL Indians of being of a similar character.

The narrative being pushed by the liberal Indians that they are somehow better than Modi is simply not true. For 72 years, they have caged the destiny of our region, created fitn between us and Bengalis, along with Afghans and Iranian brothers, and now they have Indian Muslims totally brainwashed against us.

RSS is the lesser of two evils compared to Congress.

We can deal more effectively with an honest foe than a duplicitous one.

Qudrat has given us a golden opportunity. It is a once in a lifetime chance. We faltered and failed previously due to our lack of resolve to finish the job.

Let us not leave any holes for our enemies to exploit, let us trudge on confidently and with firm conviction of our cause, we are fighting for freedom and independence of the world against a force of fascist enslavers and abusers of innocents, the downtrodden, and the oppressed.

Our cause is just and benevolent. May Allah swt bless our endeavor.

EXACTLY!

I agree that there is NOTHING we need to learn from indians or to even understand them. ALL we need to know is how to liquidate indians if we have a war with them. NOTHING else.

You mentioned a really good point in that our main current foreign policy should be to neutralize and stabilize the situation in Afghanistan. Right now, the Afghans are killing eachother and blaming it on Pakistan. We need to somehow stop this.

I have been studying Afghanistan for a long time. I have learned mainly that our media has functioned as an arm of Indian propaganda to create a gulf between us.

There is not much differences between Afghans and Pakistanis at the deeper level.

Now too Iran seems to be coming around due to China.

All factors are falling into place for Pakistan. We should be firm in our cause.

It is not only Kashmir, but to nullify the threat against our people for good.

The giant idol of treachery and deceit called India must be torn asunder.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The narrative being pushed by the liberal Indians that they are somehow better than Modi is simply not true. For 72 years, they have caged the destiny of our region, created fitn between us and Bengalis, along with Afghans and Iranian brothers, and now they have Indian Muslims totally brainwashed against us.

RSS is the lesser of two evils compared to Congress.

We can deal more effectively with an honest foe than a duplicitous one.

Qudrat has given us a golden opportunity. It is a once in a lifetime chance. We faltered and failed previously due to our lack of resolve to finish the job.

Let us not leave any holes for our enemies to exploit, let us trudge on confidently and with firm conviction of our cause, we are fighting for freedom and independence of the world against a force of fascist enslavers and abusers of innocents, the downtrodden, and the oppressed.

Our cause is just and benevolent. May Allah swt bless our endeavor.

We certainly have a golden opportunity now as ALL the work indians have done against us for nearly 73 years has recently collapsed into an oblivion and we can now chart our own future and destiny without the indian menace.

YES. ALL indians are the enemies of Pakistan and the Pakistani peoples. Be they hindu extremists, liberals, sikhs etc. Hence we must treat all as such.

 

[saiyan0321]

Locking the thread temporarily,
let me clean up some reports & i will start with clean up process on this thread. Till then, lets jam that hype!!

Attention:
For those, whose posts have been deleted please stay away from thread with your off-topic discussions.

I did the same for Indian members the other day & a thread was dedicated for them on CoC. Same is being asked here, let Pakistani members to discuss their CoC in peace too.

If any more reports from this thread are received, member will be banned from replying in the thread & infraction issued.

Clean up process for thread is still on going, will open once all reports are cleared up

Update:
Thread is Open for discussion. have mercy on mods please

I dont think this thread was meant to be for a code of conduct atleast not a code as in the same meaning the Indian code of conduct was made. The OP was unclear on what he wanted and i would have liked him to actually explain or bring forth what is he trying to ask of posters or recommend to posters ( the style definitely doesnt help). This is also the reason why the thread has been going here and there and revolving we have come to the question, that we reach in every thread, whether Indians should be banned or not?

@Mangus Ortus Novem what are you trying to say?

You speak of Pakpositivism but havent defined it in the form of the positivist theory nor brought forth your new understanding of the theory through the spectrum of Pakistan and its populace or are you using positivism as in the 'positive' word sense rather than the theoretical sense of positivism? because that takes the thread in an entirely different view.

Secondly you speak of a code of conduct but a code of conduct is not just against a set group only but utilized in all that is said and done since the end objective of a moral code is personal moralistic stand and growth. It is entirely self. You also havent highlighted what should be the code or how it should be implemented and in what regards.
Infact the way the OP was mentioned it seemed less positivist or code of conduct and more a study of Indians. Its a research project meant to discern their weakness, their stand, their views, what they do and what they want and what they like. The OP is geared towards academic research rather than self moral management. Is the objective as such? However if it is then i am afraid it is unneeded. In your later posts you have already presented most of the conclusions that Indians are such and such thus you have already reached the end of you research and have drawn your conclusions, as evidenced by later posts and many here already have done as such. If that is already done and indianess, as you put it, is already studied then why bother doing it again. Havent the goals been reached already and conclusions determined and underlined.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The narrative being pushed by the liberal Indians that they are somehow better than Modi is simply not true. For 72 years, they have caged the destiny of our region, created fitn between us and Bengalis, along with Afghans and Iranian brothers, and now they have Indian Muslims totally brainwashed against us.

RSS is the lesser of two evils compared to Congress.

We can deal more effectively with an honest foe than a duplicitous one.

Qudrat has given us a golden opportunity. It is a once in a lifetime chance. We faltered and failed previously due to our lack of resolve to finish the job.

Let us not leave any holes for our enemies to exploit, let us trudge on confidently and with firm conviction of our cause, we are fighting for freedom and independence of the world against a force of fascist enslavers and abusers of innocents, the downtrodden, and the oppressed.

Our cause is just and benevolent. May Allah swt bless our endeavor.



I have been studying Afghanistan for a long time. I have learned mainly that our media has functioned as an arm of Indian propaganda to create a gulf between us.

There is not much differences between Afghans and Pakistanis at the deeper level.

Now too Iran seems to be coming around due to China.

All factors are falling into place for Pakistan. We should be firm in our cause.

It is not only Kashmir, but to nullify the threat against our people for good.

The giant idol of treachery and deceit called India must be torn asunder.

In total agreement with you. Also, we need to be wary of Pakistani traitors within like the dawn group who call for appeasement of our indian enemies.

 

[Verve]

why kill real dialogue and interaction when we can talk and exchange ideas instead ?

Absolutely No need. We are better off not holding dialogues and interactions with you Incorrigible Indians!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I dont think this thread was meant to be for a code of conduct atleast not a code as in the same meaning the Indian code of conduct was made. The OP was unclear on what he wanted and i would have liked him to actually explain or bring forth what is he trying to ask of posters or recommend to posters ( the style definitely doesnt help). This is also the reason why the thread has been going here and there and revolving we have come to the question, that we reach in every thread, whether Indians should be banned or not?

@Mangus Ortus Novem what are you trying to say?

You speak of Pakpositivism but havent defined it in the form of the positivist theory nor brought forth your new understanding of the theory through the spectrum of Pakistan and its populace or are you using positivism as in the 'positive' word sense rather than the theoretical sense of positivism? because that takes the thread in an entirely different view.

Secondly you speak of a code of conduct but a code of conduct is not just against a set group only but utilized in all that is said and done since the end objective of a moral code is personal moralistic stand and growth. It is entirely self. You also havent highlighted what should be the code or how it should be implemented and in what regards.
Infact the way the OP was mentioned it seemed less positivist or code of conduct and more a study of Indians. Its a research project meant to discern their weakness, their stand, their views, what they do and what they want and what they like. The OP is geared towards academic research rather than self moral management. Is the objective as such? However if it is then i am afraid it is unneeded. In your later posts you have already presented most of the conclusions that Indians are such and such thus you have already reached the end of you research and have drawn your conclusions, as evidenced by later posts and many here already have done as such. If that is already done and indianess, as you put it, is already studied then why bother doing it again. Havent the goals been reached already and conclusions determined and underlined.

Aqalmand bhande ke liya ishara kafi he.

Basically dear brother Mangus' ideology in a nutshell.

You have to understand that although Pakistanis may differ among ourselves on the methods, the goal is the same.

We may have different experiences, but when we come together and learn from each other, we can sharpen our minds from the insights of other Pakistanis.

These discussions to create unity among Pakistanis and discuss sensitive issues are a must.

 

[Verve]

Once again: What is India's EndGame?

Dismember Pakistan <-- that's always been their end game ... from Gandhi to Nehru to Indra to the current version of Hindu fascists.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Absolutely No need. We are better off not holding dialogues and interactions with you Incorrigible Indians!

Also there is NOTHING we can learn from indians that we can't learn from amongst ourselves or our allies.

 

[peagle]

Taliban? Lol.



The focus is on revealing hypocrisy of the Indian state. I agree that we should up our game to a more intellectual level as Mangus stated.

lol no,
they are among those who recognize how we have helped the Afghan people, but I don't trust any of them, they will backstab you if you don't take care.

But especially the Tajik and Uzbeks among others.
I have never seen a nation or a group of people be so ungrateful, they are still enjoying our hospitality and still, they hate us to a point of helping our enemies do harm to Pakistan.

I have never in my life heard Pakistanis say bad things about Afghans, until recently,
because we have had enough of that ungrateful lot.

India supported and help the Soviets kill nearly a million Afghans, that's all forgiven and forgotten.
We give millions of them safety and a home, and support them in their fight against their invaders, but they hate us, biting the hand that feeds you.