Pakistan's Submarine Procurement

[Quwa]

We can definitely use some of Saab's aerospace experience in our future aircraft programs.

 

[BATMAN]

For Pakistan, you must first work from within. I am sure you understand the term "Food before Bullet". Pakistan must first work to look after her people, then the economy which helps the people to support themselves. Once this has reached a reasonable level, you can then move to other luxuries like the military.

Only a strong economy can support a strong military. Hopefully, Pakistan can go through these difficult times inshallah.

When we had strong economy six months ago, it was only western media and western state forced Musharraf to resign and bring back the corrupt and convicted!
Now what have said above is simpyl a double talk.

 

[Jliu]

Still begs the question though? Which ones are better? Dont get me wrong, I'm all for diversifying our sources. But it does make me wonder...will the French Agosta's be like our F-16s and the German 214 like our J-10s or the other way round (if you know what I mean)?

Needless to say the U214 design is at least a generation ahead in all fields (read my previous postings on this) than a legacy design no matter how advanced it is.

You're talking a reconfigured Porsche as opposed to a Pagani Zonda if the metaphor suffices.

Now with the credit crisis in the background and the specter of credit card crunches looming it's worth doing a little pump priming to the economy in the form of building 2-3 additional A90B to round out the numbers. The A70 are approaching block obsolescence but operating budgets dictate a ceiling of 6 boats similar to my country and the above would help in achieving acceptable numerical sub-parity.

 

[Jliu]

if pak is going to let china inspect the subs, isnt that violation of international law? and wont this result in future sales to pak getting blocked?

Naturally the Chinese being as they are (although I am not Chinese I share a common background with my PM) will no doubt wish to inspect a PN boat given the state of their submarine technology. If the contract explicitly forbids the PN to transfer technology (including expertise and performance statistics) to a third party then legally it will be a violation of international contract law. Contracts pertaining to UDT always contain such clauses-even Pakistan will nicely tell the Chinese to **** off for the reasons mentioned above. This is because there are very good verification measures that alert the vendor to tampering. In addition there will be (in the case of German/UK/US vendors) certain anti tamper devices on the boat itself to ensure strict compliance.

 

[Jliu]

When we had strong economy six months ago, it was only western media and western state forced Musharraf to resign and bring back the corrupt and convicted!
Now what have said above is simpyl a double talk.

Stop whingeing and carefully analyse the facts. Although it was not Musharaff that was responsible for the state of the country's structural base (as opposed to cyclical) of the Pakistani economy (thank Zia, Bhutto and Sharif for that) under his rule the GoP did not actively take steps to diversify this structural weakness which Zadari inheirited.

To an extent all are to blame but it is useless to point the finger-only work to mitigate the effects of the damage.

 

[muse]

Agnostic


So if the Sub program or other weapons program were to be delayed food production would increase? Since we don't the financing terms, we cannot say that sums that should or would have gone to buying food are being or will be diverted.

Infact, these programs generate jobs.

 

[IceCold]

Agnostic


So if the Sub program or other weapons program were to be delayed food production would increase? Since we don't the financing terms, we cannot say that sums that should or would have gone to buying food are being or will be diverted.

Infact, these programs generate jobs.

For the 1st time i'll admit i agree with you. but no matter how right we are on this one, AM too has a point that it will indeed give a bad impression to the donors who already see everything that we buy militarily from India's eye.

 

[muse]

will indeed give a bad impression to the donors who already see everything that we buy militarily from India's eye

.

Not so - if they saw things from a Indian persepective they would not be selling to us. These countries have their own interests and pursue and protect them, something we should learn to do more often.

India is a an important country, but hardly the entirety of the security foundations of Europeans in Asia.

 

[IceCold]

.

Not so - if they saw things from a Indian persepective they would not be selling to us. These countries have their own interests and pursue and protect them, something we should learn to do more often.

Havent you noticed that already a debate is going on in the US senate with regards to the F-16 how will it effect the geo strategic balance w.r.t India and will those be used in counter terrorism or build up against India.

 

[muse]

So, these are American submarines?

U.S - Europe -- Not neceassarily the same.

 

[Imran Khan]

So, these are American submarines?

U.S - Europe -- Not neceassarily the same.

its proof EU nations follws US its same like us if us stop them to sell they stop its happens before

 

[Black Stone]

When we had strong economy six months ago, it was only western media and western state forced Musharraf to resign and bring back the corrupt and convicted!
Now what have said above is simpyl a double talk.

Brucey, If you want to talk about the Pakistani economy six months ago, please make a thread for it. If you want to talk about Pakistani economy when you were born, you can also make a thread about it.

I don't represent the western media, so if you want to express your anger and release your tantrums then I suggest you contact them.

 

[Arsalan]

Chairman Joint Cheifs of staff Committee, General Tariq Majid visited the marine system production facility at HDW Germany on November 13,2008!!

hope he comes back with the Uboat deal finalized or even i dare to wish if he comes back on one of them

 

[Arsalan]

HAMBURG Nov 13 (APP): Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Tariq Majid, who is currently on an official visit to Germany, visited Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), Marine System Production Facility at Kiel city on Wednesday. General Wolfgang Schniederhan, German Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) also accompanied General Tariq Majid.

With a history of 160 years of ship building, HDW is capable of producing world’s most modern non-nuclear submarines, container vessels and large merchant ships.

On arrival at the Marine System Production Plant, CJCSC was received by Walter Freitag, Managing Director HDW. He was then given an in depth briefing about the facility. Chairman JCSC also saw different production units including submarine production and refurbishing facilities.

On Thursday, Chairman JCSC visited Fhrungsakademie der Bundeswehr (Armed Forces Staff College) at Hamburg.

German CDS also accompanied him to the Fhrungsakademie. At the college, CJCSC was received by Director of Faculty Brigadier General Karl Schreiner, who briefed him about the alumni’s curriculum and ongoing training activities.

 

[araz]

HAMBURG Nov 13 (APP):

His visit may have been more ceremonial, but Rafi of pakdef.info is reporting approval by the government to buy U214s. The naval chief seems to have convinced Gilani that PN needs these vessels. Once thecontract is signed, it woul take 4 yrs to build the first vessel in Pakistan. Good news after all!!!
Araz