Pakistan's Submarine Procurement

[Black Stone]

Still begs the question though? Which ones are better? Dont get me wrong, I'm all for diversifying our sources. But it does make me wonder...will the French Agosta's be like our F-16s and the German 214 like our J-10s or the other way round (if you know what I mean)?

I think the Type 214 is better than the Agosta, the German engineering is of top class. That is my opinion ofcourse.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Still begs the question though? Which ones are better? Dont get me wrong, I'm all for diversifying our sources. But it does make me wonder...will the French Agosta's be like our F-16s and the German 214 like our J-10s or the other way round (if you know what I mean)?

i would say Agosta and U-214 would be like medium tech JF-17 and high tech FC-20. jliu it would be great if you comment here.

 

[su-47]

As we seen last few years, even we do not have enough resources, but still buying state of the art weapons. Its all because China, end evaluator of these weapons are China. China is facing embargo since last 10 years. They have to update its defence in pre-existing geo conditions. As we all know south Korea has recently adopt 214 fleet. China is still behind in sub technology, all Russian akula class or klub class are not proven lethal yet. So, best to update their subs are Pak Agosta and German 212 or 214 class. Both subs are totally different classes both carry European and American weapons. But Russian are not capable of adopting anyother weapon. Extremely limitation in Russian class.

if pak is going to let china inspect the subs, isnt that violation of international law? and wont this result in future sales to pak getting blocked?

 

[ejaz007]

I seriously doubt China would be evaluating or inspecting these subs. Pakistan would not like to enter into another controversy as it already has a bad name in this regard.

As far as funds are concerned these are not an issue. In 1998 we had 600 million dollar reserves and still defense deals went ahead there is no reason to believe these are not going through now with 8 billion in reserves.

 

[Black Stone]

As far as funds are concerned these are not an issue. In 1998 we had 600 million dollar reserves and still defense deals went ahead there is no reason to believe these are not going through now with 8 billion in reserves.

This is not 1998 and there are many articles on this forum which indicates the bad financial sitution of Pakistan. There are also articles suggesting Pakistan seeking aid and economic assistance from China and friends of Pakistan. Not to mention, this year we have a backdrop of the financial turmoil with world markets going down, the outlook of the economy is not looking good either.

The future is uncertain, but it's good to stay optimistic I guess.

 

[Nutuk]

To begin with I understand that Pakistan is currently in a bid political and also economical turmoil. This is sad to hear and wish you a quick recovering.

In many terms Pakistan resembles my country, you are trying also to improve / modernize your army with insufficient funds and you struggle to become less dependent on foreign weaponry. Well in missile technology Pakistan is doing relatively well allthough it can be better ofcourse, but in other areas Pakistan is lagging a bit due to lack of industrialization.

In my own opinion defence industry is a key industry branch that can also help de electronics industry and machinery industry and deserves a lot of state focus. Recently (the last 10 years) Turkey is putting a lot of focus (+investment) on her defence industry, resulting in many Turkish defence products. All I can say is that I hope that Pakistan will make use of the Turkish efforts cos we are probably one of the few countries who sincerely like to share and transfer the knowhow with Pakistan. Joint works on next generation submarines like the U214 submarines, corvettes and AAW frigates are precious possibilities that will take our respective navies to the upperclass.

Good luck Pakistan

 

[ejaz007]

This is not 1998 and there are many articles on this forum which indicates the bad financial sitution of Pakistan. There are also articles suggesting Pakistan seeking aid and economic assistance from China and friends of Pakistan. Not to mention, this year we have a backdrop of the financial turmoil with world markets going down, the outlook of the economy is not looking good either.

The future is uncertain, but it's good to stay optimistic I guess.

If these articles are written by professionals than these deserve to be looked into otherwise these are just opinions and nothing more. As far as economy is concerned it at times shows signs of weakness and then at times of recovery. For example say US $ jumps beyond Rs. 80 mark it means that currency is loosing its value but it also in a way means that products made in Pakistan would be cheaper when compared in international market price. A product whose cost was Rs. 70 a month a go actually had US $ 1 price now it would be less than US $ 1 and hence competitive.

Also during September alone foreign remittances soared by around 28% compared to last year. So we are loosing dollars but we are also getting some back. If GOP some how manages to curtail illegal transfer of foreign remittances a lot of our problems would be over. Let hope this happens.

 

[Black Stone]

If these articles are written by professionals than these deserve to be looked into otherwise these are just opinions and nothing more. As far as economy is concerned it at times shows signs of weakness and then at times of recovery. For example say US $ jumps beyond Rs. 80 mark it means that currency is loosing its value but it also in a way means that products made in Pakistan would be cheaper when compared in international market price. A product whose cost was Rs. 70 a month a go actually had US $ 1 price now it would be less than US $ 1 and hence competitive.

Also during September alone foreign remittances soared by around 28% compared to last year. So we are loosing dollars but we are also getting some back. If GOP some how manages to curtail illegal transfer of foreign remittances a lot of our problems would be over. Let hope this happens.

It doesn't matter if these articles are written by professionals or not, the important thing is the contents and the information the writers use to support their views. You can either believe or not believe, but that doesn't matter. The fact is the Pakistani financial situation is not good. When there are many articles indicating the same symptoms that shows a trend of what is really going on.

If the financial situation is not as bad as we think, the Pakistani president would not ask for financial and other economic assistance from other countries like China.

In this situation, Zardari should put his priorities on the Pakistani people and not on military, but if the Chinese are funding it, then that's a separate matter.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan's main worries are import of petroleum products, edible oils, industrial machinery and lately power generation crisis.

Prices of petroleum and edible oils has fallen recently and with it production cost of industrial machinery products should also lower. If this trend persists some of our worries would be gone and hopefully we wwould have some breathing space.

Presently matters requiring immediate attention are generation of power so that industry can function properly and food products whose prices are going up.

Unfortunately Pakistan can not reduce military expenditure at this time because of events going on in its neighbourhood. This really is sad but true.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The subs deal should be postponed for another year or two - now is really not the time for purchasing big ticket military items - it also sends a very bad signal to potential donors etc.

The entire focus should be on economic stabilization and addressing the power and food shortage. The subs mean nothing if people cannot feed themselves.

 

[Black Stone]

The subs deal should be postponed for another year or two - now is really not the time for purchasing big ticket military items - it also sends a very bad signal to potential donors etc.

The entire focus should be on economic stabilization and addressing the power and food shortage. The subs mean nothing if people cannot feed themselves.

That's the correct attitude, which is more important? Your people or some subs?.

This is so true...

The subs mean nothing if people cannot feed themselves.

 

[Imran Khan]

The subs deal should be postponed for another year or two - now is really not the time for purchasing big ticket military items - it also sends a very bad signal to potential donors etc.

The entire focus should be on economic stabilization and addressing the power and food shortage. The subs mean nothing if people cannot feed themselves.

but sir we have to seen the needs of our forces if we go more behaind in balance of power its dangrus for pakistan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

but sir we have to seen the needs of our forces if we go more behaind in balance of power its dangrus for pakistan

What is worse - our military acquisitions and modernization falling behind a few years, or the continued economic destabilization and food shortage?

Focusing on the economy ensures that we have a stronger economic base from which to restart our modernization plans, perhaps to an even larger degree than we have planned currently.

 

[Black Stone]

but sir we have to seen the needs of our forces if we go more behaind in balance of power its dangrus for pakistan

Building a strong force is the responsibility of every nation, but you must understand that every move comes with priorities. Just because some priorities are pushed back it doesn't mean it is neglected or forgotten.

For Pakistan, you must first work from within. I am sure you understand the term "Food before Bullet". Pakistan must first work to look after her people, then the economy which helps the people to support themselves. Once this has reached a reasonable level, you can then move to other luxuries like the military.

Only a strong economy can support a strong military. Hopefully, Pakistan can go through these difficult times inshallah.

 

[HAIDER]

European Union companies are tired of embargo. They are desperately need cash and they know China need latest technology. Last year when Pakistan sign pact with France about JF17 avionics, third party question was raised, but French totally ignored that. And now german, sweds are heading in same path.