Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[RAMPAGE]

It is the same dear, the guns were brought back for some analysis and a few new options have joined now so these have been sent back for testing. The initial claims that these are being tested in battlefield were never true @Zarvan , I confirmed you at that time as well. These always were in too limited numbers to make it to operations and were always being evaluated at ranges. That is what will continue for now. FN SCAR performance is surely best but there are other guns in close competition and there will be factors other then these tests as well when making the final decision.
Had a detailed discussion just yesterday and you people need to sit tight for a few more weeks.
Also the plan is not to directly go for replacement of the whole army as i mentioned and now have been confirmed. The news that confused almost everyone was that that idea of this new guns is that it can replace the guns of whole army, AT SOME POINT in time! If that was not the case we would have just bought a few thousand guns directly however all this effort being put is is because the authorities want to select a gun that MAY be able to replace the guns in whole of army at some time, that will take years, years as in decades!!
For now the procurement will be for some selected units and then a decision will be made only afterwards, no matter how news channels chose to twist the words to say otherwise. Numbers we will be looking at are 10000 to 12000. It is likely that since the gun will be selected only once it is deemed suitable to be used with whole army one day and because G3 are getting old and need to be replaced this new guns do gets inducted with whole army in some years. However there still are some people in key positions that are in strong support of a locally made gun. We may see a product resulting from experiences of G3 and the new selected gun and this current trails only select gun that remain with some special units. However, this is far too early to pass on any judgements on that issue.

I, for one, support a made in Pakistan rifle. Doesn't matter that much if the replacement gets delayed by a few years. A nice low-cost local rifle, Standardized with quality optics is what i'll vote for. By the way, Do tell us more about those optics.

However, I think that Pakistan Army should ask the local gunsmiths, Daudsons and the like, To come up with their own designs. I'm sure they'll jump at the opportunity.

 

[Wolfhound]

If the customer starts to disclose the comparative performance of competing platforms, he is basically shooting himself in the leg by strengthening the stance of the possible winner when time comes to negotiate the price and terms. Your supplier must never know how far ahead or back it is with reference to other competitors to remain competitive in price negotiations. If you tell them beforehand that all others failed to meet the requirement, what do you expect in pricing?

A smart customer would say (at least in public) that the competition is very close with very minor differences in performance and we can choose anyone of the top three or four contenders.......so when there is no difference in performance the only thing that tilts the balance in a contender's favour is the pricing, terms etc.

but that is for smart customers and Pakistanis have always been stupid braggers.......

Firstly, I don't think that the Belgian officials are stupid enough to check public forums for information on their products performance. Secondly, they don't need to go out looking for information on the internet as they have sent a team here specifically for the trials through which they get all the information they would ever need. So please don't try to be smart when your not and try to jump to conclusions.

 

[Quwa]

It is the same dear, the guns were brought back for some analysis and a few new options have joined now so these have been sent back for testing. The initial claims that these are being tested in battlefield were never true @Zarvan , I confirmed you at that time as well. These always were in too limited numbers to make it to operations and were always being evaluated at ranges. That is what will continue for now. FN SCAR performance is surely best but there are other guns in close competition and there will be factors other then these tests as well when making the final decision.
Had a detailed discussion just yesterday and you people need to sit tight for a few more weeks.
Also the plan is not to directly go for replacement of the whole army as i mentioned and now have been confirmed. The news that confused almost everyone was that that idea of this new guns is that it can replace the guns of whole army, AT SOME POINT in time! If that was not the case we would have just bought a few thousand guns directly however all this effort being put is is because the authorities want to select a gun that MAY be able to replace the guns in whole of army at some time, that will take years, years as in decades!!
For now the procurement will be for some selected units and then a decision will be made only afterwards, no matter how news channels chose to twist the words to say otherwise. Numbers we will be looking at are 10000 to 12000. It is likely that since the gun will be selected only once it is deemed suitable to be used with whole army one day and because G3 are getting old and need to be replaced this new guns do gets inducted with whole army in some years. However there still are some people in key positions that are in strong support of a locally made gun. We may see a product resulting from experiences of G3 and the new selected gun and this current trails only select gun that remain with some special units. However, this is far too early to pass on any judgements on that issue.

Even if the Army was intending to switch the standard issue rifle in earnest, the process would take a few decades at least. In our case, it'd likely be a process of basically issuing the rifle to new soldiers so that they grow up around it, it'd be the smoothest process, but the longest as well. Decades.

 

[Zarvan]

Even if the Army was intending to switch the standard issue rifle in earnest, the process would take a few decades at least. In our case, it'd likely be a process of basically issuing the rifle to new soldiers so that they grow up around it, it'd be the smoothest process, but the longest as well. Decades.

It would take a decade and Guns which are being tested FN SCAR would win and should be selected. POF is also upgrading its facility to increase rate and quality of production
@balixd @kaonalpha Any updates guys ?

 

[Zarvan]

 

[Arsalan]

I, for one, support a made in Pakistan rifle. Doesn't matter that much if the replacement gets delayed by a few years. A nice low-cost local rifle, Standardized with quality optics is what i'll vote for. By the way, Do tell us more about those optics.

However, I think that Pakistan Army should ask the local gunsmiths, Daudsons and the like, To come up with their own designs. I'm sure they'll jump at the opportunity.

Well that is understandable and makes sense, that is why there is support for the idea in the military circles as well. Optics wont be a huge problem anyway once the gun is decided upon and finalized. There are so many options, getting private sector involved in that might be an option as well, anyway, there are quite a few options that can and will be looked upon.

For the private sector, they are not that mature or developed to take out such a massive project. Even POF will need to implement those up gradation plans to the fullest if the guns for whole army are to be replaced.

What new options have arrived ? Although they would fail to beat FN SCAR. New Gun by POF is not a good idea

There were a few more CZ Bern that arrived and there were talks about some German option. I will leave the judgement of whether they will be able to beat SCAR to the experts. However would point out that at mentioned earlier, the performance will be ONE of the parameters that will decide which gun is selected. Even after that we are going for a few thousand units and a decision to continue with same gun will only be made after this first batch is operational (10k to 12K). That itself is a long enough time to work out all the other future plans and study its pros and cons.

Even if the Army was intending to switch the standard issue rifle in earnest, the process would take a few decades at least. In our case, it'd likely be a process of basically issuing the rifle to new soldiers so that they grow up around it, it'd be the smoothest process, but the longest as well. Decades.

Exactly sir, and that is enough time to decide on what future path we will take. Since the time required will be too long a lot of actual evaluation will be done during that decade or so. Anyone who was -thinking that they will see a gun selected and the army equipped with it, even is 7-8 years is mistaken. It will be a long process and frankly speaking, it is best that way!

 

[Zarvan]

Well that is understandable and makes sense, that is why there is support for the idea in the military circles as well. Optics wont be a huge problem anyway once the gun is decided upon and finalized. There are so many options, getting private sector involved in that might be an option as well, anyway, there are quite a few options that can and will be looked upon.

For the private sector, they are not that mature or developed to take out such a massive project. Even POF will need to implement those up gradation plans to the fullest if the guns for whole army are to be replaced.


There were a few more CZ Bern that arrived and there were talks about some German option. I will leave the judgement of whether they will be able to beat SCAR to the experts. However would point out that at mentioned earlier, the performance will be ONE of the parameters that will decide which gun is selected. Even after that we are going for a few thousand units and a decision to continue with same gun will only be made after this first batch is operational (10k to 12K). That itself is a long enough time to work out all the other future plans and study its pros and cons.



Exactly sir, and that is enough time to decide on what future path we will take. Since the time required will be too long a lot of actual evaluation will be done during that decade or so. Anyone who was -thinking that they will see a gun selected and the army equipped with it, even is 7-8 years is mistaken. It will be a long process and frankly speaking, it is best that way!

If HK 417 has arrived than things would get intersting. Other than that I hardly see any competetion

 

[Arsalan]

If HK 417 has arrived than things would get intersting. Other than that I hardly see any competetion

Four the Fifth time in last 24 hours, "Performance will be ONE of the parameters" that will decide what gun is selected. I don't know who to make it more easy to understand, spoon feeding cant be done all the time so you must try and understand what is being said in all those posts dear.

 

[Zarvan]

Four the Fifth time in last 24 hours, "Performance will be ONE of the parameters" that will decide what gun is selected. I don't know who to make it more easy to understand, spoon feeding cant be done all the time so you must try and understand what is being said in all those posts dear.

Off course. I know that's what I am saying that it's hard to beat FN SCAR when it comes to performance in any temprature and enviorment and other aspects like range and accuracy and less jamming. But HK 417 may come close if it has arrived for competeion @balixd @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7

 

[Arsalan]

Off course. I know that's what I am saying that it's hard to beat FN SCAR when it comes to performance in any temprature and enviorment and other aspects like range and accuracy and less jamming. But HK 417 may come close if it has arrived for competeion @balixd @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7

Hmmm, well you failed to mention the "performance" part in the previous posts and it looked like you were saying as the gun confirmed to be selected. I am pointing to the fact that the performance will be only one of the parameters that will help make the selection. Thank you for clearing it now so that there wont be any confusions.

 

[Kurlang]

@Zarvan rest assured FN SCAR will not be selected. I know you are too passionate about it however as mentioned by @Arsalan there are many other parameters at play other than gun's performance.

 

[Arsalan]

@Zarvan rest assured FN SCAR will not be selected. I know you are too passionate about it however as mentioned by @Arsalan there are many other parameters at play other than gun's performance.

No i wont say that with surety!

What we need to understand that the trails and evaluations are arried out only so that the decision can be made AFTER that. Everything before that is simply speculation and must be made sure that everyone knows that. Stating it as "facts" is something that i consider misguiding people purposely.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan rest assured FN SCAR will not be selected. I know you are too passionate about it however as mentioned by @Arsalan there are many other parameters at play other than gun's performance.

FN SCAR is leading the Gun trials and giving best performance so rest assured their are massive chances of FN SCAR winning competition

 

[Sparkle229]

@Zarvan rest assured FN SCAR will not be selected. I know you are too passionate about it however as mentioned by @Arsalan there are many other parameters at play other than gun's performance.

Noooooooooooooo

 

[Thorough Pro]

I may not be smart, but you sure look dumb. Today, social media is the most widely and effectively used tool for advertising and information collection.

Firstly, I don't think that the Belgian officials are stupid enough to check public forums for information on their products performance. Secondly, they don't need to go out looking for information on the internet as they have sent a team here specifically for the trials through which they get all the information they would ever need. So please don't try to be smart when your not and try to jump to conclusions.