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Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

As I stated that before only mig 21 shoot down during that day. I didn't claim to shoot down a f 16.

As per the available evidence, No f16 or su 30 mki shoot down.

Pls come to topic..pls

But you tend to believe the statement s of your own country, which is natural and the IAF official line is that it show down F16.

We will naturally believe our officials and hence stated that ok we got a battered and bruised pilot, a wreakage of a plane with 4 missiles intact so we backed our claim with irrefutable evidence.

So where is the evidence by IAF ref its claims to f16, also you don't believe an f16 was shot down so basically you don't believe the official statement of your country?.
 
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Even the radars used in F-22 and F-35 don't have that king of range.

While it can see at extended ranges, that is not the whole picture. It can scan at ranges of upwards of 300Km however, it can only do so for VERY little areas, i.e the size of a hud, a useless feature.

" The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD). This is not particularly useful without AWACs cueing"

@RealNapster

I just mean that you can't estimate the performance of Chinese weapons just according to that of Russia or USA.

And ASBM is a very good example.
we are still waiting for a source.
 
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But you tend to believe the statement s of your own country, which is natural and the IAF official line is that it show down F16.

We will naturally believe our officials and hence stated that ok we got a battered and bruised pilot, a wreakage of a plane with 4 missiles intact so we backed our claim with irrefutable evidence.

So where is the evidence by IAF ref its claims to f16, also you don't believe an f16 was show down so basically you don't believe the official statement of your country?.



The F-16 that was shot down, landed in Pakistan.
 
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Even the radars used in F-22 and F-35 don't have that king of range.

Su35 is 10 feet longer and 6 feet wider then F-22. A bigger jet can mean a bigger pesa radar. Size do matters here. So what if this is the correct range ? I mean ok I will accept that Russians are faking this figure if you insist. But even no body make a 400 out of 150. It's still definitely not less then 200 km. In which case we are still 30 km short.
 
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Well, what we DO know about the Block 3 is that it carries a KLJ-7A, a radar that is superior to even the IRBIS-E of the SU-35, we also know the JF-17 Block III will carry a new package of weapons, more than likely including the PL-15, mated with some form of 5th gen HOBS WVRAAM, as of right now, you use the RVV-AE which has a maximum engagement zone of 80km(unlikely to get a kill at such a distance anyway) however, the K-77M you talk of is under development for the SU-57, there is nothing to say that it can be used on legacy platforms, using the example of the MIG-29UPG, it has abysmal radar performance and is outgunned by the JF-17, the Zhuk-ME has a range of 120km for a target with a 5m^2 RCS compared to the KLJ-7 V1's range of 150km in Look-up mode. The best variant of the R-77 would be the K-77ME which is decades away from active service, and, well, we know that Russian export variants of platforms are significantly gimped relative to their domestic variants.

In terms of your Astra, we are looking at a range of 110km, which, once again, is outgunned by the JF-17 block 3. However, that is not even a concern because expecting HAL to pump out 80 production models of the Tejas within 5 years is laughable. The figure you are citing for the Tejas is the Peak production rate of 16 aircraft a year, based off of HAL's performance to date, it is Highly unlikely that HAL will be able to sustain, or even meet said production rate.

Your claim of a M2K variant with meteors is also a joke. MBDA themselves have said this would be unviable.

Sure, the induction of the Rafale would be a significant improvement in terms of capability, however, 36 fighters up against a fleet of potentially 100-150 AESA equipped JF-17's armed with PL-15's significantly tilts the balance in our favour.




Got a source?

You missed many things!
1. Su 30 mki - N011M has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km, with 60 km in the rear in the air-to-air mode. Detection range fighter type MIG-29/jf 17 in area of review of over 300 sq. deg: - on towards course - up to 140 km; - in pursuit of - up to 60 km.

2. Better range missiles from Russia I.e R 27EM also available for Mig 29 UPG, Su 30MKI

3. Hal Tejas mk1a ( approx 80-150 before 2020) with AESA radar and Astra - I m taking about block 2with range between 150-200 km.

3. Rafale with meteor missiles.

Sorry, I don't think.
 
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But you tend to believe the statement s of your own country, which is natural and the IAF official line is that it show down F16.

We will naturally believe our officials and hence stated that ok we got a battered and bruised pilot, a wreakage of a plane with 4 missiles intact so we backed our claim with irrefutable evidence.

So where is the evidence by IAF ref its claims to f16, also you don't believe an f16 was show down so basically you don't believe the official statement of your country?.
no its not natural to believe that builidng was blowup when satelite images hsows its standing..or that aircraft as shot down when it was jammed and isolated..
believe in next in what..IAF has time travel technology..
hell, even i dont accept su 30 kill claim unless we have evidence..its still a claim..although seeing how IAF is lying ..i wont be surprised if its true
 
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Detection ranges mean little to nothing.

In that case KLJ-7A's stated detection range of 170 km also mean nothing.

Probably along the lines of its ECCM, EW, Features etc

I cant comment in what ways the KLJ-7A is better

That's not how you prove your claim sir. I agree it maybe better in jamming , EW, ECCM but that can't be said for sure. We, common men can only compare ranges of these two platforms and that show is another story.
 
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You missed many things!
1. Su 30 mki - N011M has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km, with 60 km in the rear in the air-to-air mode. Detection range fighter type MIG-29/jf 17 in area of review of over 300 sq. deg: - on towards course - up to 140 km; - in pursuit of - up to 60 km.

2. Better range missiles from Russia I.e R 27EM also available for Mig 29 UPG, Su 30MKI

3. Hal Tejas mk1a ( approx 80-150 before 2020) with AESA radar and Astra - I m taking about block 2with range between 150-200 km.

3. Rafale with meteor missiles.

Sorry, I don't think.

Referring back to the N035E (based off the same family anyway), The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD).
So, whether it can search up to 400km is irrelevant, it will not be very useful. considering it severely limits its search parameters.

That is all i had missed. For everything else, i will copy and paste what i said as it still applies since you have just repeated yourself.


Well, what we DO know about the Block 3 is that it carries a KLJ-7A, a radar that is superior to even the IRBIS-E of the SU-35, we also know the JF-17 Block III will carry a new package of weapons, more than likely including the PL-15, mated with some form of 5th gen HOBS WVRAAM, as of right now, you use the RVV-AE which has a maximum engagement zone of 80km(unlikely to get a kill at such a distance anyway) however, the K-77M you talk of is under development for the SU-57, there is nothing to say that it can be used on legacy platforms, using the example of the MIG-29UPG, it has abysmal radar performance and is outgunned by the JF-17, the Zhuk-ME has a range of 120km for a target with a 5m^2 RCS compared to the KLJ-7 V1's range of 150km in Look-up mode. The best variant of the R-77 would be the K-77ME which is decades away from active service, and, well, we know that Russian export variants of platforms are significantly gimped relative to their domestic variants.

In terms of your Astra, we are looking at a range of 110km, which, once again, is outgunned by the JF-17 block 3. However, that is not even a concern because expecting HAL to pump out 80 production models of the Tejas within 5 years is laughable. The figure you are citing for the Tejas is the Peak production rate of 16 aircraft a year, based off of HAL's performance to date, it is Highly unlikely that HAL will be able to sustain, or even meet said production rate.

Your claim of a M2K variant with meteors is also a joke. MBDA themselves have said this would be unviable.

Sure, the induction of the Rafale would be a significant improvement in terms of capability, however, 36 fighters up against a fleet of potentially 100-150 AESA equipped JF-17's armed with PL-15's significantly tilts the balance in our favour.
 
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no its not natural to believe that builidng was blowup when satelite images hsows its standing..or that aircraft as shot down when it was jammed and isolated..
believe in next in what..IAF has time travel technology..
hell, even i dont accept su 30 kill claim unless we have evidence..its still a claim..although seeing how IAF is lying ..i wont be surprised if its true

But Raj believes IAF official claims but doesn't believe an f16 was shot down even though the IAF is adamant it did, wow I am amazed at the logic of the guy.
 
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In that case KLJ-7A's stated detection range of 170 km also mean nothing.





That's not how you prove your claim sir. I agree it maybe better in jamming , EW, ECCM but that can't be said for sure. We, common men can only compare ranges of these two platforms and that show is another story.


Well no, you are the KLJ-7A's detection range actually means something. Read what i had tagged you in before.

The KLJ-7A can actually make effective use of its detection range, the IRBIS-E cant.

"The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD)."

You can refer to this PLAAF report that confirms the IRBIS-E is inferior to the current gen of Chinese AESA's.


Su35 is 10 feet longer and 6 feet wider then F-22. A bigger jet can mean a bigger pesa radar. Size do matters here. So what if this is the correct range ? I mean ok I will accept that Russians are faking this figure if you insist. But even no body make a 400 out of 150. It's still definitely not less then 200 km. In which case we are still 30 km short.

I have responded to this in another comment. Please refer to that for the answer to this.
 
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Well no, you are the KLJ-7A's detection range actually means something. Read what i had tagged you in before.

The KLJ-7A can actually make effective use of its detection range, the IRBIS-E cant.

"The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD)."

You can refer to this PLAAF report that confirms the IRBIS-E is inferior to the current gen of Chinese AESA's.




I have responded to this in another comment. Please refer to that for the answer to this.

I don't know how correct you are but I got your point.
 
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