Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

[Ultima Thule]

"Trango Towers, post: 12354387, member: 180568"]Indian problem.
1. your best brains do not enter the armed forces. they go into business. = Agreed it offers better living $$
2. you think shiny new toys win wars. they don't = Thy do if you buy right toys ie Rafale or Phalcon Awacs etc
3. you think your superior numbers will win wars....they just provide more targets = Superior equipment Yes
4. you have poor maintence and poor training = That is true Russian hardware in partiuclar
5. you talk too much = That too I have to agree with

and what happened to your vedic/raptor of the east MKI on 27 FEB

 

[Myth_buster_1]

"Trango Towers, post: 12354387, member: 180568"]Indian problem.
1. your best brains do not enter the armed forces. they go into business. = Agreed it offers better living $$
2. you think shiny new toys win wars. they don't = Thy do if you buy right toys ie Rafale or Phalcon Awacs etc
3. you think your superior numbers will win wars....they just provide more targets = Superior equipment Yes
4. you have poor maintence and poor training = That is true Russian hardware in partiuclar
5. you talk too much = That too I have to agree with

Dont blame your incompetency on Russian "hardware".
PAF is dying to get their hands on Su-30 series and would do wonders with it.

 

[The Maverick]

and what happened to your vedic/raptor of the east MKI on 27 FEB

Dont blame your incompetency on Russian "hardware".
PAF is dying to get their hands on Su-30 series and would do wonders with it.

The Russian fighters are very capable and offer bang for buck. But they do have maintenance issues

I think this is why TEJAS is fitted with Usa engines and Israeli radar and HMD

The Mirage2000 has 90% availability.

This is why india pulled out of SU57 programme and why the MIG35 was never going to wn MMRCA

SU30MKI has over 100 indian workshops and still we cant get passed 60% avialability even today

 

[litman]

Indian problem.
1. your best brains do not enter the armed forces. they go into business.
2. you think shiny new toys win wars. they dont
3. you think your superior numbers will win wars....they just provide more targets
4. you have poor maintence and poor training
5. you talk too much

REALISTICALLY speaking we also face problem 1.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The Mirage2000 has 90% availability.

No jet has a 90% availability, even USAF haven't that capability, so your IAF is better than USAF???

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The Russian fighters are very capable and offer bang for buck. But they do have maintenance issues

I think this is why TEJAS is fitted with Usa engines and Israeli radar and HMD

The Mirage2000 has 90% availability.

This is why india pulled out of SU57 programme and why the MIG35 was never going to wn MMRCA

SU30MKI has over 100 indian workshops and still we cant get passed 60% avialability even today

If Russian fighters have maintenance issues then India would have been aware of it long time ago. They would not have ordered Su-30MKI, Mig-29K, upgrade Mig-29 Mig-21.
Nor would they have waited after investing billions of dollars on Su-57 program and realize it have maintenance issues even though the plane has not entered service. The reason why they pulled out of SU-57 was not because of maintenance issue but more of political. India wants to get closer to west and and prevent Pakistan from obtaining any further American made fighters.
A single engine fighter is lighter thus easier to maintain then compared to twin like F-15 or Su-30 but India takes it to another level by having the worst maintenance record.

No jet has a 90% availability, even USAF haven't that capability, so your IAF is better than USAF???

Its possible with single engine light weight fighters like MK2 F-16 Gripens JF etc.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Its possible with single engine light weight fighters like MK2 F-16 Gripens JF etc.

70-80% is more probable but 90% i don't thinks so

 

[Trango Towers]

REALISTICALLY speaking we also face problem 1.

We have many problems. Alhumdulillah we manage

 

[Daghalodi]

If Russian fighters have maintenance issues then India would have been aware of it long time ago. They would not have ordered Su-30MKI, Mig-29K, upgrade Mig-29 Mig-21.
Nor would they have waited after investing billions of dollars on Su-57 program and realize it have maintenance issues even though the plane has not entered service. The reason why they pulled out of SU-57 was not because of maintenance issue but more of political. India wants to get closer to west and and prevent Pakistan from obtaining any further American made fighters.
A single engine fighter is lighter thus easier to maintain then compared to twin like F-15 or Su-30 but India takes it to another level by having the worst maintenance record.


Its possible with single engine light weight fighters like MK2 F-16 Gripens JF etc.

Its not only maintance. Poor training and incomptency also plays a major role.

Indian talk about tejas being ready to face off any threat from jf17 block 3 is actually a joke. Tejas platform needs training and mock exercise drills to mature. Rolling off a factory doesnt make it combat worthy, it has to earn it.

So dont take tejas so seriosuly. It still needs time to prove its worth.

 

[The Maverick]

GUYS regarding your serviceability rates here is a PDF thread on global service rates

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/serviceability-rate-of-fighter-aircrafts.412550/

I was shocked to read Indian service rates are actually very high compared to NATO and USA standards

and s i suggested Mirage is at 80%

Even SU30MKI has improved last few years

India has invested alot of time and money to improve efficiency of SU30MKI with huge indengious spares programme and network of indian work shops
so they are not waiting around for delivery from Russia . They have too IAF has 270 su30 su30mki in service now . it forms 50% of indian combat fleet

That boys is a SU30MKI in training with LCA tejas

Indian talk about tejas being ready to face off any threat from jf17 block 3 is actually a joke. Tejas platform needs training and mock exercise drills to mature. Rolling off a factory doesnt make it combat worthy, it has to earn it.

This applys to both platforms.

The BLOCK3 is coming with a HMD smething that does not exist on your existing fleet of 117 thunders
Also this is your first aesa radar
And the block 3 starts arriving next year its in final testing

LCAmark1a is same and will not start arriving until late 2022 or early 2023

 

[Myth_buster_1]

GUYS regarding your serviceability rates here is a PDF thread on global service rates

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/serviceability-rate-of-fighter-aircrafts.412550/

I was shocked to read Indian service rates are actually very high compared to NATO and USA standards

and s i suggested Mirage is at 80%

Even SU30MKI has improved last few years

India has invested alot of time and money to improve efficiency of SU30MKI with huge indengious spares programme and network of indian work shops
so they are not waiting around for delivery from Russia . They have too IAF has 270 su30 su30mki in service now . it forms 50% of indian combat fleet

That boys is a SU30MKI in training with LCA tejas




This applys to both platforms.

The BLOCK3 is coming with a HMD smething that does not exist on your existing fleet of 117 thunders
Also this is your first aesa radar
And the block 3 starts arriving next year its in final testing

LCAmark1a is same and will not start arriving until late 2022 or early 2023

Here is one of my posts from earlier discussion.

Since 2000 IAF (excluding INAF) has lost 30 4th generation fighter jets
9 Mig-29
10 Mirage-2000
11 Su-30
from 360 4th generation fighters inventory.

Thats 1 crash for every 11 jets

Compared to PAF

1 JF-17
2 F-16
From 200 4th gen

1 crash for every 66!

PAF clearly has much better record then IAF.
_____________________

UPDATE:


Despite sanctions on Pakistan in 1990s PAF managed to clock 270+ hours per F-16 from 1994 to 2005. This has significantly increased knowing PAF has sufficient spare parts supply after new F-16 deal.

F-16 Fighting Falcon News
Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours

October 4, 2005 (by Asif Shamim) - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.



Here is something interesting

So IAF Su-30 total service life is just 6000 hours

For 30 years in service would be 200 hours per year
or 40 years of service would be just 150.


https://www.business-standard.com/a...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html
A Su-30MKI is overhauled after flying 1,500 hours or 14 years, whichever is earlier. Over its total service life of 6,000 flying hours or 30-40 years, each fighter undergoes three overhauls. Eventually, the IAF's fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs will undergo 816 overhauls - three per fighter.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

What people don't realise that PL-15 is not just for Rafale.

Imagine what this missile will do to: SU-30MKI, Mirage-2000, MiG-27 and 29 (and this is the bulk of the IAF).

 

[Trango Towers]

"Trango Towers, post: 12354387, member: 180568"]Indian problem.
1. your best brains do not enter the armed forces. they go into business. = Agreed it offers better living $$
2. you think shiny new toys win wars. they don't = Thy do if you buy right toys ie Rafale or Phalcon Awacs etc
3. you think your superior numbers will win wars....they just provide more targets = Superior equipment Yes
4. you have poor maintence and poor training = That is true Russian hardware in partiuclar
5. you talk too much = That too I have to agree with

Point 2 .. you would be correct if they knew how to use them..this links up with training

 

[Akh1112]

What people don't realise that PL-15 is not just for Rafale.

Imagine what this missile will do to: SU-30MKI, Mirage-2000, MiG-27 and 29 (and this is the bulk of the IAF).

Realistically, for everything but the Rafale, the SD-10 is a perfectly sufficient missile simply due to the fact that the R-77 just doesnt work as it should. Even the meteor is believed by experts to not be all that it is hyped up to be. Like, alot of the time, its compared to the Aim-120C5, if anything, its an AIM-120D with maybe a little better performance, atleast kinetically, we dont know about its ECM/ECCM cap so we cant comment.

 

[Trango Towers]

What people don't realise that PL-15 is not just for Rafale.

Imagine what this missile will do to: SU-30MKI, Mirage-2000, MiG-27 and 29 (and this is the bulk of the IAF).

PL 15 is a headache for the indians as we can see well within india and some of their forward bases come within range. They are taking off and they have a pl15 up their behind
Quite right every aircraft will be a target and BVR combat see first shoot first kill first. Let's hope it has a high hit probability