Pakistan's new Chinese submarines will likely carry nuclear-capable CJ-10K LACMs

[Mitro]

Can china give Pakistan cruise missile with the range of 1500km I don't think they will share the secret with Pakistan to develop their own in both nuclear reactor and missile .

 

[messiach]

Thats interesting for me. It is however prohibitively expensive work. I hope if this is true, (which i doubt very much) is non-inferior to PWR-3 successor class reactors. PWR-series3 from successor class subs, which if i am not wronge have classified input from US virginia class.

In a brief report published by the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, a Pakistani-government-funded think tank, more details of Pakistan's new Chinese submarines have been disclosed. The report also assesses Pakistan's pursuit of developing nuclear submarine and desire to acquire ASW capability.


Excerpts:

To counter Indian naval buildup, Pakistan agreed to purchase eight new submarines
from China in March 2015, which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle Air-independent propulsion (AIP)
system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K land attack cruise missiles
(LACMs) each.


It has been assessed that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing
Class Chinese SSK (diesel-electric submarine). Highly advanced electric propulsion system of Qing Class
Chinese SSK will enable Pakistan to replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.


In 2014-2015, Pakistan signed an agreement with a German firm “Rheinland Air Service (RAS)” to
upgrade two Pakistan Navy-regional air transport (ATR-72s) into maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) with
anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities. According to the Ministry of Defence Production, these ATR-
72s will be ready for Pakistan by 2017-2018. Furthermore, it is possible that a third ATR-72 will
ultimately be sent for conversion, especially since the platform is considered a key part of the Navy’s
Aviation Vision 2030 plan.

 

[IceCold]

You did mentioned Now where as Pakistan developed nuclear weapons in the 80s.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Does anyone know how advanced these submarines are compared to those already in our inventory and what sort of NEW advantages it would give to our navy?

 

[monitor]

In a brief report published by the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, a Pakistani-government-funded think tank, more details of Pakistan's new Chinese submarines have been disclosed. The report also assesses Pakistan's pursuit of developing nuclear submarine and desire to acquire ASW capability.


Excerpts:

To counter Indian naval buildup, Pakistan agreed to purchase eight new submarines
from China in March 2015, which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle Air-independent propulsion (AIP)
system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K land attack cruise missiles
(LACMs) each.


It has been assessed that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing
Class Chinese SSK (diesel-electric submarine). Highly advanced electric propulsion system of Qing Class
Chinese SSK will enable Pakistan to replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.


In 2014-2015, Pakistan signed an agreement with a German firm “Rheinland Air Service (RAS)” to
upgrade two Pakistan Navy-regional air transport (ATR-72s) into maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) with
anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities. According to the Ministry of Defence Production, these ATR-
72s will be ready for Pakistan by 2017-2018. Furthermore, it is possible that a third ATR-72 will
ultimately be sent for conversion, especially since the platform is considered a key part of the Navy’s
Aviation Vision 2030 plan.

very welcoming news though already speculated of Qing class as Pakistan's underwater nuclear triad confirming from Think tank just confirm it.
most intriguing is
conventional power plant would be replace by nuclear power ultimately pave the way for a nuclear power Sub for second strike .

 

[Max]

Can china give Pakistan cruise missile with the range of 1500km I don't think they will share the secret with Pakistan to develop their own in both nuclear reactor and missile .

your fellow bharti think all our nuclear and ballistic missile program is Chinese, so if we believe them what stops China to handover few 1500km SLCM and nuclear reactors..

In reality Pakistan will work with China as Bharti did with Russian on their nuclear submarine program..

 

[CHI RULES]

1. CJ - 10 is a 1500 Km missile, China which has voluntarily agreed to comply with MTCR rules in 2004 in a bid build to case for entry into MTCR , can not export this missile to Pakistan.

2. Agosta 90B are armed with Exocets and not Babur.

3. There is no naval variant of Babur, which can be fired from the submarine or even surface vessel.

After TOT Pak may produce similar missile in Pak

 

[YeBeWarned]

for some members who are questioning about the babur, a video was posted by a very respected member Rashid mahmood in which Scientist Samar mubarakh hinted about Naval Version of Babur, plus any if the Technology is there to create CM than range is not something we can't Achieve , and these news Subs we will get either they fire Babur or CJ-10 , they will still give a second strike ability .. this news is a wonderful share , now all we need is to wait , and invest more in Surface Fleet with Potent sam system and Naval Arm...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

very welcoming news though already speculated of Qing class as Pakistan's underwater nuclear triad confirming from Think tank just confirm it.
most intriguing is
conventional power plant would be replace by nuclear power ultimately pave the way for a nuclear power Sub for second strike .

With all due respect to you and no offence intended, but why are you as a bangladeshi interested in and taking joy in Pakistan's military developments? Seems extremely odd and hard to understand.

 

[monitor]

With all due respect to you and no offence intended, but why are you as a bangladeshi interested in and taking joy in Pakistan's military developments? Seems extremely odd and hard to understand.

I am in fact taking joy for any Muslim countries achievement in any field especially military.

 

[Penguin]

In a brief report published by the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, a Pakistani-government-funded think tank, more details of Pakistan's new Chinese submarines have been disclosed. The report also assesses Pakistan's pursuit of developing nuclear submarine and desire to acquire ASW capability.


Excerpts:

To counter Indian naval buildup, Pakistan agreed to purchase eight new submarines
from China in March 2015, which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle Air-independent propulsion (AIP)
system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K land attack cruise missiles
(LACMs) each.


It has been assessed that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing
Class Chinese SSK (diesel-electric submarine). Highly advanced electric propulsion system of Qing Class
Chinese SSK will enable Pakistan to replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.


In 2014-2015, Pakistan signed an agreement with a German firm “Rheinland Air Service (RAS)” to
upgrade two Pakistan Navy-regional air transport (ATR-72s) into maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) with
anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities. According to the Ministry of Defence Production, these ATR-
72s will be ready for Pakistan by 2017-2018. Furthermore, it is possible that a third ATR-72 will
ultimately be sent for conversion, especially since the platform is considered a key part of the Navy’s
Aviation Vision 2030 plan.

The Quin class has

• two torpedo tubes (TT) in the bow, with one 650 mm TT on starboard side and one 533 mm TT on port side
• Missile: two vertical launching system tubes for submarine launched ballistic missiles in the conning tower, four VLS tubes for cruise/ASW/AShM missiles in the forward section.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2015/04/pakistan-navys-project-s-26type-032.html

So, please explain how come, if "it has been assessed that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK (diesel-electric submarine)" why it would have only "up to three 3 CJ-10"?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/38o55g/the_planned_vls_system_to_be_implemented_on/

CJ-10 is shorter than YJ18, which is thought to be a Chinese equivalent of the Russian E3M-54E.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-18

No Club family variant is taller than 8.9m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

The hull diameter of Type 032 Qing is 10 m, so these missiles should fit a hull mounted VLS. They don't need coning tower silo's for ballistic missiles. But why limit to 3 missiles then? Existing 032 has 4 already, and that number can easily be doubled with a hull plug.

The hull diameter of 039A is 8.4 meters, so that would rule out hullmounted VLS for these missiles, unless in the 'humped' fom we also see on SSBNs. See e.g. Russian modified AMUR 950

CJ-10 dimensions are much like those of Tomahawk, on which Babur is also based.
http://www.popsci.com/china-shows-its-deadly-new-cruise-missiles

Tomahawk can be launched from regular 533mm torpedoes.

So, to me, the limit of 3 CJ-10 missiles suggests it it torpedo tube launched. Submarines carry a limited number of torpedoes e.g. 18 in the case of a Kilo class. 3 CJ-10 plus 4 antiship missiles leaves room for some 11 torpedoes, some of which anti-surface othes anti submarine some dual capable.

And than, to me, suggests there really is no need for 032, because 039A or S-20 can do all that.

As far as we can tell, the propulsion of 032 is diesel-electric, as in all conventional subs. Even if it incorporates a Sterling AIP, that still doesn't qualify as a "Highly advanced electric propulsion system". So, I doubt Pakistan could "replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant". And if it could, then why not also on any of its subs, including the French boats. It is not bound to Type 032 then.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I am in fact taking joy for any Muslim countries achievement in any field especially military.

Fair enough. So I take it you are more religiously inclined than being nationalistic?

 

[Jamali Akhtar]

Pakistan should buy some nuclear submarines & Destroyed ships and build a Aircraft carrier to strong the naval force aginst India.

 

[Penguin]

I can see this thread totally isn't about
Pakistan's new Chinese submarines will likely carry nuclear-capable CJ-10K LACMs

GENTLEMEN, OFF TOPIC~!

 

[Basel]

1. CJ - 10 is a 1500 Km missile, China which has voluntarily agreed to comply with MTCR rules in 2004 in a bid build to case for entry into MTCR , can not export this missile to Pakistan.

2. Agosta 90B are armed with Exocets and not Babur.

3. There is no naval variant of Babur, which can be fired from the submarine or even surface vessel.

It is rumoured that one Agosta was modified for SLCM and in PN there were 2 opinion one in favor 2nd against it, the against argued that PN have small sub fleet which should remain sea going not land attack one.

Can china give Pakistan cruise missile with the range of 1500km I don't think they will share the secret with Pakistan to develop their own in both nuclear reactor and missile .

They can transfer tech like BMs (west said Pak got BM tech from China), Pakistan could call it Babar-2 or some other new name.