PAKISTAN’S MIRAGES: SPECIALISTS ENDURING OUT OF NECESSITY

[GriffinsRule]

Yep it is late by two decades or so but I was having a though experiment. Maybe wanting to see these beautiful deltas from flying into the sunset =)
J-10 afaik is not a strike fighter either and is much in the same multirole as the JF-17. Pakistan should keep moving forward with the AZM project while once I make a billion or so dollars will revive and build a shiny new Mirage 5 for myself lol

 

[HAIDER]

Ive got another thing to say, jh - 7b

jh 7b is junk . Plane is maintenance nightmare .

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yep it is late by two decades or so but I was having a though experiment. Maybe wanting to see these beautiful deltas from flying into the sunset =)
J-10 afaik is not a strike fighter either and is much in the same multirole as the JF-17. Pakistan should keep moving forward with the AZM project while once I make a billion or so dollars will revive and build a shiny new Mirage 5 for myself lol

not possible your idea is from past there were some of similar kind of project running in past like Romanians Mig-21 upgrades with new engine and israeli avionics and south african Mirage F1 with RD-33 with new avionic but i think only romanians upgraded there Mig-21 but not south aferican didn't @GriffinsRule

 

[GriffinsRule]

not possible your idea is from past there were some of similar kind of project running in past like Romanians Mig-21 upgrades with new engine and israeli avionics and south african Mirage F1 with RD-33 with new avionic but i think only romanians upgraded there Mig-21 but not south aferican didn't @GriffinsRule

Yes I know, thanks

 

[Armchair]

@GriffinsRule who knows maybe the PAF's Azm project fits your bill and is a tailless delta like the Mirage

Remember both the YF-23 and the competitor to the JSF were tailess deltas. Whats more, the Boeing touted 6th generation is also a tailess delta.

RUMINT suggests Azm is a delta. Not sure if its a mini J-20 with a canard or ... something closer to what you and Syed Yusuf has suggested.

What is clear is that there has been a "twin engined J-10" in development with Chengdu for a while now. Whether that project was cancelled or not... then there was the J-31 competitor from Chengdu... did it lose the contest? Or not?...

The major portion of stealth is in shaping. A tailless delta like a Mirage 3 or a Mirag 2000 is the most ideal starting point for a stealth fighter. This is specially true as first and second generation stealth has been compromised with longer wavelength anti-stealth radars. Meaning the F-35 design is already outdated by the time its production started. The tailless delta has far better fundamental stealth capacity in a wider wavelength.

So my friend, maybe you don't have to spend a billion of your own money and can enjoy the Azm from the comfort of your screen! And what's more - we can call it the Lightening and Indians can go like:
"Holy cow, the Thunder and Lightening are here, lets get new dhotis!"

 

[Ultima Thule]

@GriffinsRule who knows maybe the PAF's Azm project fits your bill and is a tailless delta like the Mirage

Remember both the YF-23 and the competitor to the JSF were tailess deltas. Whats more, the Boeing touted 6th generation is also a tailess delta.

RUMINT suggests Azm is a delta. Not sure if its a mini J-20 with a canard or ... something closer to what you and Syed Yusuf has suggested.

What is clear is that there has been a "twin engined J-10" in development with Chengdu for a while now. Whether that project was cancelled or not... then there was the J-31 competitor from Chengdu... did it lose the contest? Or not?...

The major portion of stealth is in shaping. A tailless delta like a Mirage 3 or a Mirag 2000 is the most ideal starting point for a stealth fighter. This is specially true as first and second generation stealth has been compromised with longer wavelength anti-stealth radars. Meaning the F-35 design is already outdated by the time its production started. The tailless delta has far better fundamental stealth capacity in a wider wavelength.

So my friend, maybe you don't have to spend a billion of your own money and can enjoy the Azm from the comfort of your screen! And what's more - we can call it the Lightening and Indians can go like:
"Holy cow, the Thunder and Lightening are here, lets get new dhotis!"

Why you insisted silly arguments @Armchair Yf-23, X-32 had a lesser agility had a less agility s compare to X-35 and YF-22 thats why they lost contest along with other reasons @Armchair

The major portion of stealth is in shaping. A tailless delta like a Mirage 3 or a Mirag 2000 is the most ideal starting point for a stealth fighter. This is specially true as first and second generation stealth has been compromised with longer wavelength anti-stealth radars. Meaning the F-35 design is already outdated by the time its production started. The tailless delta has far better fundamental stealth capacity in a wider wavelength.

What is the prove your this arguments @Armchair

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan I just saw that Tornados are being retired... another junk saga could be started for maritime strike and Mirage replacement...

Hi,

I would still stay with the JH7A---because I have no restriction of getting the most advanced chinese technology suitable for this aircraft---this is an extremely formidable strike platform---.

Enjoy the read

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FF35Lightning%252Fcomments%252F5fv9he%252F

 

[Mentee]

I am an ardent proponent of such a type of EW aircraft with secondary capability of SEAD ops.

Conversion of JF-17:

1. The two wingtips missile launcher rail replaced with detection pods
2. 2 x out-board pylons carrying High Band Jamming Pods
3. Center line fuselage carrying Low Band Jamming Pod
4. The last two mid-board pylons carrying fuel tanks or ARM's.

Whats the loiter time of jf-17 and jh-7B?

Plane is maintenance nightmare

Hi, Thats the very reason we train folks to maintain and operate weapons with efficiency no matter how difficult and tiresome it becomes to keep a war machine in action for protecting motherland - - -.

 

[Armchair]

Hi,

I would still stay with the JH7A---because I have no restriction of getting the most advanced chinese technology suitable for this aircraft---this is an extremely formidable strike platform---.

Enjoy the read

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FF35Lightning%252Fcomments%252F5fv9he%252F

Thanks MK, very informative and educational.

Some thoughts came to mind. a2g ranges were always given for at optimal cruise.

With the JH-7A, I assume you wish to fly lo-lo-lo or at best lo-hi-lo, because the moment you get to a high profile you're going to give yourself away. Let's be generous and give the JH-7 "PG" a 4000 km ferry range and try to work ourself backwards from there.

If you are hitting the deck, there is no way you will obtain similar figures to optimal cruise. If you are carrying large standoff munitions, there is no way you are going to get optimal range.

You'd probably be somewhere at 25% to 35% of ferry range. I've no clue, I'm guessing. Which means for a truly Low flight profile, you won't make it to a "right hook" into Mumbai...

Now, if you can somehow manage to increase the range (let's say ferry for apples to apples comparison), to say 4500 km, then perhaps you'd be able to do it. But if you are range limited to that, IAF / IN would not need to protect themselves all the way to the Southern tip.

The other question which I am not technically competent to answer is what kind of flight profile can be alternated. Could instead of a lo-lo-lo profile one went for a High-low-high profile, then strike range would be significantly increased.

Another thing is we would need to leave some leeway for maneuver in the even of interception.

Interesting fact - the Tornado and JH-7A have almost the exact same ferry range.

 

[HAIDER]

Whats the loiter time of jf-17 and jh-7B?


Hi, Thats the very reason we train folks to maintain and operate weapons with efficiency no matter how difficult and tiresome it becomes to keep a war machine in action for protecting motherland - - -.

Some of machine are technically failed and worthless to keep or maintained . JH7 is one of them. Which been modified and replace the engine with new configuration and still very high on maintenance. Still facing engine problem. But, Chinese can not retire it because due to huge inventory , pulse too much spent on infrastructure.

 

[Mentee]

Some of machine are technically failed and worthless to keep or maintained . JH7 is one of them. Which been modified and replace the engine with new configuration and still very high on maintenance.

Shah g do you got any substitute to it? If yes then plz enlighten us.

 

[Armchair]

MK I've been making a mistake with my calculation, 1600 km approx for a squarish right hook to Mumbai. However, the return journey does not need to follow the same pattern back.

 

[HAIDER]

Shah g do you got any substitute to it? If yes then plz enlighten us.

Yara ji , Pakistan don't need long range bomber. Our defence policy is India centric and all there asset are with 2000 mile radius. JH7 is long range bomber ferrying around 4000 miles. Such plane require huge maintenance . And PAF has limited funds. If all relations goes well with US then look for more F16s and focus on JF17 development program.

 

[Mentee]

Yara ji , Pakistan don't need long range bomber. Our defence policy is India centric and all there asset are with 2000 mile radius. JH7 is long range bomber ferrying around 4000 miles. Such plane require huge maintenance . And PAF has limited funds.

We need nothing sir g let's make peace with India, give up our air and naval assets and be everyone's be eye tee see aychh

 

[HAIDER]

We need nothing sir g let's make peace with India, give up our air and naval assets and be everyone's be eye tee see aychh

Yara ji ghussa na karoo.... kahan sa pesa laa kar ayaan...

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/xianjh7fighterbomber/

Has updated Rolls Royce engine...

The aircraft can fly at a maximum speed of 1,808km/h. Its cruise speed is 903km/h. The normal and ferry ranges of the JH-7 are 1,759km and 3,700km respectively. The service ceiling of the aircraft is 16,000m. The aircraft weighs around 14,500kg while its maximum take-off weight is 28,475kg.