PAKISTAN’S MIRAGES: SPECIALISTS ENDURING OUT OF NECESSITY

[Basel]

If we get all planned features on Block 3, i.e., HMDS + HOBS, uprated RD-93, AESA radar then Mig-35 is essentially the elder brother with more endurance. The idea has been floated by @Bilal Khan (Quwa) to acquire Mig-35 and benefit from the economies of scale. In the absence of all other options, it would make sense. But I believe we should put max effort into acquiring Su-35. But even more important than that is a solid multi-layered air defence system.

Currently economy is not good and if we can not get Su-35 then Mig-35 and Mig-35D will be good economical option to replace Mirages as they are twin engines with better range then JFT so good for patrolling EEZ with mid air refueling.

Also Pakistan can opt for Mig-35 carrier version if it went to acquire Chinese training carrier for learning and protection of surface fleet.

 

[Shabi1]

Currently economy is not good and if we can not get Su-35 then Mig-35 and Mig-35D will be good economical option to replace Mirages as they are twin engines with better range then JFT so good for patrolling EEZ with mid air refueling.

Also Pakistan can opt for Mig-35 carrier version if it went to acquire Chinese training carrier for learning and protection of surface fleet.

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If considering Mig-35 then it should be compared with a possible J-31 induction, both will share same power plant as JF-17 and in case of J-31 even similar radar platform is rumored and will save on common munitions.

Also buying weapons from Russia is risky at the moment as US will get an additional excuse to put sanctions on Pakistan, Pakistan doesnt enjoy the same leverage as India enjoys and will not be spared from CAATSA repercussions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_America's_Adversaries_Through_Sanctions_Act

Considering Russian weapon systems while Trump is in the office is not feasible for Pakistan.

 

[denel]

If considering Mig-35 then it should be compared with a possible J-31 induction, both will share same power plant as JF-17 and in case of J-31 even similar radar platform is rumored and will save on common munitions.

Also buying weapons from Russia is risky at the moment as US will get an additional excuse to put sanctions on Pakistan, Pakistan doesnt enjoy the same leverage as India enjoys and will not be spared from CAATSA repercussions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_America's_Adversaries_Through_Sanctions_Act

Considering Russian weapon systems while Trump is in the office is not feasible for Pakistan.

Mig35 is not worth it; you need Jh-7c which is perfect replacement

 

[GriffinsRule]

Im amazed when people in the same sentence say on one hand that the economy is not good and then follow up with saying lets buy a foreign fighter jet.
BTW not Mig-35 variant will cost less than $60MM a pop. PAF needs to buy/build more JF-17s to replace any Mirages, not buy Russian fighters for the sake of it

 

[Basel]

Mig35 is not worth it; you need Jh-7c which is perfect replacement

Mig-35 can handle airborne threats which JH-7 can't, also IN is using Mig-29Ks which Mig-35 can handle with JFT meaning in near future PN will be less threatened by IN ACC.

Im amazed when people in the same sentence say on one hand that the economy is not good and then follow up with saying lets buy a foreign fighter jet.
BTW not Mig-35 variant will cost less than $60MM a pop. PAF needs to buy/build more JF-17s to replace any Mirages, not buy Russian fighters for the sake of it

JFT is not proper replacement of Mirages and currently PAF don't have funds for EFT or Su-35s, also Mig-35 is cheaper then Su-35 and bring 4++ gen capabilities to PAF, also it will bring another AESA radar with JFT-B3 which will take time to be fielded in numbers.

Also it will allow space / money for 5th gen bird with less burden on logistics due to similar engine with JFT and capability to carry all weapons which PAF currently fields.

 

[CriticalThought]

Mig-35 can handle airborne threats which JH-7 can't, also IN is using Mig-29Ks which Mig-35 can handle with JFT meaning in near future PN will be less threatened by IN ACC.



JFT is not proper replacement of Mirages and currently PAF don't have funds for EFT or Su-35s, also Mig-35 is cheaper then Su-35 and bring 4++ gen capabilities to PAF, also it will bring another AESA radar with JFT-B3 which will take time to be fielded in numbers.

Also it will allow space / money for 5th gen bird with less burden on logistics due to similar engine with JFT and capability to carry all weapons which PAF currently fields.

Why do you think JFT is not a proper replacement for Mirages?

 

[denel]

Mig-35 can handle airborne threats which JH-7 can't, also IN is using Mig-29Ks which Mig-35 can handle with JFT meaning in near future PN will be less threatened by IN ACC.



JFT is not proper replacement of Mirages and currently PAF don't have funds for EFT or Su-35s, also Mig-35 is cheaper then Su-35 and bring 4++ gen capabilities to PAF, also it will bring another AESA radar with JFT-B3 which will take time to be fielded in numbers.

Also it will allow space / money for 5th gen bird with less burden on logistics due to similar engine with JFT and capability to carry all weapons which PAF currently fields.

friend...... we are beating the old drums.... there is no need for Mig 35k; you need to understand the primary reason why Mirage Rose are being kept for strategic carrying of Raad and deep strike; that is what Jh-7c brings to this plate. The rest will be left to Jf-17s/f-16s

 

[Basel]

Why do you think JFT is not a proper replacement for Mirages?

You can not put all work load on JFT also it was never made to replace Mirages.

friend...... we are beating the old drums.... there is no need for Mig 35k; you need to understand the primary reason why Mirage Rose are being kept for strategic carrying of Raad and deep strike; that is what Jh-7c brings to this plate. The rest will be left to Jf-17s/f-16s

Kindly you stop beating drum, because JH-7 variants have been comprehensively rejected by PAF and PN as outdated platforms, also PAF want multirole aircraft, twin engine bird will be safer to fly over EEZ then single engine bird.

 

[CriticalThought]

You can not put all work load on JFT also it was never made to replace Mirages.

Wait for Block 3 before making that assessment.

 

[Basel]

Wait for Block 3 before making that assessment.

If block-3 replace Mirages then it means due to economic conditions this step is taken, because many here don't understand what replacement requirements of Mirages are, ask some PAF guy who know you well. He may tell you about it.

 

[HRK]

because many here don't understand what replacement requirements of Mirages are, ask some PAF guy who know you well. He may tell you about it.

better if you can list some of the requirements which are not fulfilled by JF-17 until now other than RA'ÁD (or may be H-2 and H-4)

 

[CriticalThought]

If block-3 replace Mirages then it means due to economic conditions this step is taken, because many here don't understand what replacement requirements of Mirages are, ask some PAF guy who know you well. He may tell you about it.

Well, nobody actually knows what the capabilities of Block 3 are, so the discussion is moot.

 

[Basel]

better if you can list some of the requirements which are not fulfilled by JF-17 until now other than RA'ÁD (or may be H-2 and H-4)

Pay load, range, endurance, maneuverability, flight characteristics at low, high, medium altitudes, speed on those altitudes, AOA of the bird etc.

Well, nobody actually knows what the capabilities of Block 3 are, so the discussion is moot.

JFT B-3 is not going to have much higher payload then B-2, because no big change is expected in engine department, no major change in range and endurance is expected to, all major change expected is in avionics which will make it 4+ gen bird but it will not become medium class bird like F-16 or Mig-35 it will remain Light class bird.

Our mirages are medium class birds of its time and needs to be replaced by a medium class bird not with light class bird.

 

[CriticalThought]

Pay load, range, endurance, maneuverability, flight characteristics at low, high, medium altitudes, speed on those altitudes, AOA of the bird etc.



JFT B-3 is not going to have much higher payload then B-2, because no big change is expected in engine department, no major change in range and endurance is expected to, all major change expected is in avionics which will make it 4+ gen bird but it will not become medium class bird like F-16 or Mig-35 it will remain Light class bird.

Our mirages are medium class birds of its time and needs to be replaced by a medium class bird not with light class bird.

OK. Let's come back to this after official specs are released.

 

[Basel]

OK. Let's come back to this after official specs are released.

If PAF upgrade JFT to medium class bird in block-3 then it will be good replacement for mirages, if JFT remains light class bird in block-3 then its not good to replace mirages.