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Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban: UK University

for those who blame ISI for every defeat in afghanistan


Officers’ mess: military chiefs blamed for blundering into Helmand with ‘eyes shut and fingers crossed’

Military chiefs and civil servants ignored warnings that Britain was ill prepared to send troops to Helmand and signed off a deeply flawed plan, a succession of senior figures have told The Times.

Even those in charge of the deployment admit that the decision to go to southern Afghanistan in 2006, which has cost the lives of nearly 300 servicemen and women, was a gamble and that mistakes were made because of poor intelligence. They insist, however, that the operation was justified to revitalise the Nato mission, combat the Taleban and reassert Britain’s military prowess after setbacks in Iraq.

But a two-month investigation by The Times, which includes interviews with 32 senior military, political and Civil Service figures, reveals that there was deep disquiet over the handling of the mission from the start.

Top ranks within the Ministry of Defence and other Whitehall departments are accused of:

* grossly underestimating the threat from the Taleban;

* ignoring warnings that planned troop numbers were inadequate;

* offering only the military advice they thought ministers wanted to hear;

* signing off on a confused command- and-control structure.

The allegations come as a critical defence review gets under way and David Cameron decides how to plot the way ahead in Afghanistan’s most dangerous province.

One senior serving officer who asked not to be named said of the planning stage: “There was institutional ignorance and denial. We who had bothered to put a bit of work in and had done the estimate realised that we needed much more than we were being given.”

Another source, in government at the time, said that the military was pushing hard for the mission despite warnings that preparations were inadequate. “The advice to ministers grossly underestimated the risks,” he said. “The few people who were doubters were either too cowardly or too cautious to say what they really thought.”

Major-General Andrew Mackay, a former commander of British troops in the province who has left the Army, accused the military of being too acquiescent in rolling over to political bidding. “The genesis of this approach is born of complacency, the thought that ‘we can deal with it as and when it happens’. It resulted, I believe, in the upper echelons of government going into Helmand with their eyes shut and their fingers crossed. For those who fought and died or suffered injuries in that period, this proved a very costly means of conducting counterinsurgency.”

In January 2006, John Reid, then the Defence Secretary announced that Britain was sending 3,300 troops to Helmand on a stabilisation mission that would last three years and cost £1 billion. Within weeks the troops were fighting for their lives, reinforcements were rushed in and costs skyrocketed.

Four years later, 20,000 US Marines are based in Helmand alongside 8,000 British Forces. The British death toll rose to 293 yesterday after another soldier was shot dead.

The Special Air Service was one of the first to raise the alarm.

Its report after a foray into Helmand in the summer of 2005 said that replacing the small, well-funded US mission in Lashkar Gah with a larger, under-funded British one was likely to create trouble. “They noted that there wasn’t much of an insurgency in Helmand, but that if you wanted one then send the British there,” said an officer who has seen the report.

Mark Etherington, a development expert who helped write the cross-government plan for Helmand, said: “It was clear from the outset in my view that there had been a radical underestimation of the challenge.” Reporting back to the Cabinet Office, his team recommended further intelligence gathering and reconnaissance. “But there was a real sense of the clock ticking, that ‘the Minister is jolly keen to get into Helmand — don’t bring me bad news, bring me good news.’.”

Countering the criticism, Lieutenant-General Sir Robert Fry, one of the main architects of the move south, said: “We felt that time was slipping through our fingers in Afghanistan. We had a campaign that was running out of steam, we had an insurgency which was gathering pace and we had a central government that was going from bad to worse. The strategic objective was the resuscitation of the Afghan campaign and by any standard that has been achieved.”

Officers’ mess: military chiefs blamed for blundering into Helmand with ‘eyes shut and fingers crossed’ - Times Online



Just wat Tech mentioned. Pakistan will be a gud scapegoat for their ill planning.
 
He's a student, sure, but the University backing him isn't so unprofessional. If they published it, it sure makes sense.

If its so easy to get something published, try your luck.

Just because he got it published dont make it a fact, where is a proof other then the statements from the holy taliban saints. But then again your logic is right, as a pigeon can be a spy, and is news worthy so can be any tom d!ck and harry's words as long as the blame can be pinned on some one. And it satisfies, the shattered ego of roughly a billion souls. Good luck living the moment.
 
India has barely 10 buildings in that country. Out of a total million buildings in Afghanistan if one of ten buildings is targeted, its a precise attack. That's 10% of our infrastructure destroyed.

Compare that to random destruction in Pakistan. Out of a million buildings, even if 100 are destroyed, its not such a big deal.
India has an excess of 100 buildings mostly for governmental use.

He's a student, sure, but the University backing him isn't so unprofessional. If they published it, it sure makes sense.

If its so easy to get something published, try your luck.
No, the University has not backed his assertions as fact. They have presented his evidence as 8 Taliban guys. That's all they have done.
 
First: since when London school of economics (LSE) became place for defense and strategic studies??

Second: UK plunged into financial crisis bacame center for propaganda manufacturing. Its sad to see institution like LSE has been deduced to such low level and became vehicle for propaganda central. Just other day another propaganda came out of UK related to KSA allowing Israel its airspace, which was dismissed by Saudis.

Third: indians are increasingly taking adavantage of UK downfall and using UK base for their propaganda business.

couldn't have said it better brother!!! :cheers:
 
Well so far there have been no prove to pin every thing at ISI with respect to the attack on the consulates, except for the allegations by the GOI. The way the AT will look at things is that ISAF and indians and every one else that is helping them is an occupying force. They will do what every they want to, and if they attack the indian interests while viewing them as collaborators with the occupiers that is not Pakistan's call. We dont want the indians there becuase we dont want to fight you guys at both the ends.

There have been allegations by US media too, not just GOI.

I'm carefully differentiating between AT and TTP here because their objectives are different. They do collaborate in matters of common interest. For example, while Pakistan was cutting peace deals with TTP, TTP was openly saying they will keep attacking Afghanistan. This is mainly why GOP was pressured by US to go after the TTP, the rest, inclding the hundreds of attacks by TTP in Pakistan are a consequence.

Also, there has been no proof of any Indian support of either AT or TTP other than anecdotal narratives.

Mind you, I'm not saying the LSE study is any court admissible evidence.
 
No, the University has not backed his assertions as fact. They have presented his evidence as 8 Taliban guys. That's all they have done.

It is not the job of the university to show the proof to the viewers. The proof is for their own confirmation. The report has been published only once the proof has been found credible.

If things are done without proof, why don't you publish something like India meddling in Balochistan or whatever.
 
Less than one attack per year. Thats nothing, Indians could have just been an accidental target.

Pakistan has 1000 attacks per year.

You can't really compare the two, everything that the Taliban has done is favorable to India. ?



Everything the AT has done is favorable to Pakistan and many things that the TTP have done have been detrimental to Pakistan, which could be a miscalculation on the part of either TTP or ISI.

See, I'm only replying to you in your own way.

OK, I gotta go now, not everybody in Dubai gets to post all day like you Asim :)
 
There have been allegations by US media too, not just GOI.

I'm carefully differentiating between AT and TTP here because their objectives are different. They do collaborate in matters of common interest. For example, while Pakistan was cutting peace deals with TTP, TTP was openly saying they will keep attacking Afghanistan. This is mainly why GOP was pressured by US to go after the TTP, the rest, inclding the hundreds of attacks by TTP in Pakistan are a consequence.

Also, there has been no proof of any Indian support of either AT or TTP other than anecdotal narratives.

Mind you, I'm not saying the LSE study is any court admissible evidence.

Those statements from TTP were nothing but publicity stunts, as they never not even once had any thing to do with any attacks on the US, except for the one where the 8 CIA guys died. Now even that one was fishy, and the intentions of those attacks were to achieve more pressure on Pakistan.
 
It is not the job of the university to show the proof to the viewers. The proof is for their own confirmation. The report has been published only once the proof has been found credible.

If things are done without proof, why don't you publish something like India meddling in Balochistan or whatever.
Are you kidding me? University reports are always critiqued by knowledgeable peers from around the world. Einsteins theories are regularly challenged even today. The minutest deviation is pointed out and can result in the total failure of the entire assertion.

The university publishes it as a researched article by one of its students. It does not (and cannot) give a certification of 100 % authenticity. That's why it HAS given evidence - that is the 8 Taliban guys as the sole premise and the shaky foundation upon which this Zardari colluding, ISI backed, movie plot story has come from.
 
Everything the AT has done is favorable to Pakistan and many things that the TTP have done have been detrimental to Pakistan, which could be a miscalculation on the part of either TTP or ISI.

See, I'm only replying to you in your own way.

OK, I gotta go now, not everybody in Dubai gets to post all day like you Asim :)
The NW Taliban (AT) has been blamed for the attack on the Ahmedis.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...taliban-suicide-bomber-jirga-saleem-safi.html

Go through this thread. This guy has taken his training from Miranshah, North Waziristan - he talks about killing and massacring Pakistanis at the behest of his training there.

There is plenty of anti-Pakistani activities that the NW Taliban is committing against Pakistan. This years biggest terrorism attack has been by the NW Taliban.
 
Are you kidding me? University reports are always critiqued by knowledgeable peers from around the world. Einsteins theories are regularly challenged even today. The minutest deviation is pointed out and can result in the total failure of the entire assertion.

The university publishes it as a researched article by one of its students. It does not (and cannot) give a certification of 100 % authenticity. That's why it HAS given evidence - that is the 8 Taliban guys as the sole premise and the shaky foundation upon which this Zardari colluding, ISI backed, movie plot story has come from.

Do you not thing science and politics are two different things.

The criteria for submission of research for politics and science are completely different.

Science is something for which a theory has to be close to reality, just believable, because science is something that would keep changing from time to time. All scientists would be proved wrong one day.

Politics on the other hand is a different field. Here reality can be judged, and it does not change from time to time. Once proven, stays the same forever.
 
Do you not thing science and politics are two different things.

The criteria for submission of research for politics and science are completely different.

Science is something for which a theory has to be close to reality, just believable, because science is something that would keep changing from time to time. All scientists would be proved wrong one day.

Politics on the other hand is a different field. Here reality can be judged, and it does not change from time to time. Once proven, stays the same forever.
You're declaring someone as supporting terror and committing murder. The evidence has to be rock solid against them.

Or are you saying LSE is in the business of printing tabloid trash and its reports are gossiping about the latest "affair" ISI is involved with. Nowhere has the LSE come out and said it backs the authenticity of this report 100%. It's just publishing the report of a student from a relevant field.
 
It's just publishing the report of a student from a relevant field.

Sir, you very well know reports don't get published without credible proof. This is all I have to say. Its not my report. If LSE published it, they have their reputation at stake. They wouldn't do it without a solid proof.

Try publishing a research and you'll see how tough it is.
 
Sir, you very well know reports don't get published without credible proof. This is all I have to say. Its not my report. If LSE published it, they have their reputation at stake. They wouldn't do it without a solid proof.

Try publishing a research and you'll see how tough it is.

So by your logic I will start taking the below linked guys very seriously from now on.

India is supporting Taliban against Pakistan says US intelligence official Pak Alert Press



India is supporting Taliban against Pakistan says US intelligence official
 
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