Pakistan's Identity Crisis: Can it explain itself without India?

[magra]

In that case, an intense civil war, spread all over British India, with due paticipation of Indian army, split as Muslim and non-Muslim soldiers, with arms and amunition, whatever they could lay their hands on, was sure and certain. What then would have been the fate of Subcontinent is anybody's guess.

Sheep follow the lion. Once the leader is dead in a battle, rest lay down their arms. With Jinnah gone, the demand for Pakistan would have calmed down. Without this demand, there would have been no need for such civil war.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

You have severe identity crisis

Slaves lecturing us on identity crisis.

There is hardly any nation on Earth who has not rulled you.its better to live identity less than living with gangus.

Once the leader is dead in a battle, rest lay down their arms. With Jinnah gone, the demand for Pakistan would have calmed down.

He survived,demanded Pakistan and established Pakistan.now no need to discuss about the things which never happened.

 

[SIPRA]

Sheep follow the lion. Once the leader is dead in a battle, rest lay down their arms. With Jinnah gone, the demand for Pakistan would have calmed down. Without this demand, there would have been no need for such civil war.

Well. In any case, we are getting into an extremely conjectural discussion, with hardly any factual basis. Had it been this, then .......... My original point was that British and Congress agreed to division, because of imminent civil war on the horizon. Kolkata killings and Bahar massacres were clearly indicating towards this. I stand by my opinion.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

This did not happen. You're talking out of your ***. I challenge you to find me anything on how Greeko-Roman civilization influenced Scandinavian society,

man you're a special breed. full of abusive cultural baggage but no Civilization. oh well.

Roman Influence in the North on JSTOR

Dina P. Dobson, Roman Influence in the North, Greece & Rome, Vol. 5, No. 14 (Feb., 1936), pp. 73-89

www.jstor.org

this is direct influence only. indirect influence through other cultures, and the heavy modern influence isn't even counted, because hopefully you aren't so stupid to ask for sources for that too.

 

[Hiptullha]

man you're a special breed. full of abusive cultural baggage but no Civilization. oh well.View attachment 782233

Roman Influence in the North on JSTOR

Dina P. Dobson, Roman Influence in the North, Greece & Rome, Vol. 5, No. 14 (Feb., 1936), pp. 73-89

www.jstor.org

kek nice google man you just discovered that different people traded! i guess now arabs were also part of your greeko-roman civilization since they were some of the biggest trade partners of the romans! you're so stupid man PLEASE just shut the **** up, take the L and stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

kek nice google man you just discovered that different people traded! i guess now arabs were also part of your greeko-roman civilization since they were some of the biggest trade partners of the romans! you're so stupid man PLEASE just shut the **** up, take the L and stop embarrassing yourself.

take your head out of your chan board filth filled *** and try to understand basic points. you know what Europe civilization is, you know what culture is, you know the difference between the two. what makes one civilization one, more than religion.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

seethe harder you coping dasyu orangutan
there was literally no cultural similarity between germanic peoples and romans and you know this which is why you need to google page extracts about trade (lol) instead of demonstrating actual cultural similarities SUCH AS similar gods, traditions, folk stories, etc.

1. using 4chan lingo on forums make you look much more stupid than you think.
2. it's not about cultural similarities stupid, you keep missing the point. obviously islands like Britain will have different mythologies from mainland and people living in distant moutains will have different cultural ideas than those from central plains.
3. the talk of "Civilization" and civilizational link is about *intellectual heritage*. much of the intellectual material that modern Europe, and even medieval Europe was based on, was created in Greece and Rome. what Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, and later Seneca and others wrote continued to influence throughout the so called "dark ages", influencing Catholic theologians, political nobles, various heretics to the Catholic Church and so on, and later formed the basis of modern Western civilization, the Enlightenment.

people in Arabia, Persia, China and India, while they had some basic influence from Greece and Rome, also had a large body of independent thought that didn't have such a heavy Greco-Roman influence.

so, this is the last time I've explained what I mean. you have zero arguments against this. don't waste my time anymore.

 

[magra]

How did Lindooism accept and assimilate them if they still exist as separate independent religions? Terminal lindoobrain.

What is Terminal Lindoobrain? Can you please clarify? Are you describing the disease you are afflicted with? Sorry to hear that. Get well soon.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

...

You ran away from the Krishna discussion. That was the most significant event which caused split in the subcontinent. It was blasphemy. Pandava took advice from Krishna, a Shudra, against the original Kshatriya Deva.

 

[magra]

You ran away from the Krishna discussion. That was the most significant event which caused split in the subcontinent. It was blasphemy. Pandava took advice from Krishna, a Shudra, against the original Kshatriya Deva.

I did not run away. I asked to create a separate thread so that we dont derail this OP.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I did not run away. I asked to create a separate thread so that we dont derail this OP.

Nothing more discuss. Pandava's allegiance should have been to the Kshatriya Deva, not the other way around.

 

[Bawag]

More explaining on what and how we feel instead of addressing your own issues. Why do you desperately try to explain away how and what India feels instead of addressing your own issues. We dont rename cities we put the old names back. Why are so invested in our internal politics? That in itself shows your identity crisis, this is not your country so you dont need to be outraged by events in India. The op trying to stop you is the entire premise of the thread.

A lot of things in one comment, but I will try:

"Feel instead of addressing your own issues ............ " > No issues at all on my side. The day I came to know the differences and origins of Indos/Indica/India, Hindustan, Hind, British India, Republic of India and Bharat/Bharat Versh, it was a damn good day. I've been putting you fellow-brethren up to sword since

"We dont rename cities ......... " > Yap, get your identity back as Bharat not European, Persian, or Arab given identity.

"Why are so invested in our internal politics? That in itself shows your identity crisis ............. " > I am pretty sure that you are the neighbour poking your nose in PDF PAKISTAN Defense Forum on a topic for Pakistanis; that's obsession mate

 

[Pak Nationalist]

How many generations does one’s people have to live in a place for them to be recognized as a native? You in your own explanation said the Indians claim a Central Asian Aryan culture blending with the culture of the people of the India valley to constitute a Vedic culture. The Muslims that came to the area so in a similar manner. Be the Arabs that came all the way up to my Multan, from whom I trace my lineage, to the central Asian Muslims that came through and mixed with my ancestors.

If I understand you correctly, I think you think we should be emphasizing our history from the point of view of the Indus Valley civilization much the same way the Egyptians put emphasis on the Ancient Egyptians, as a distinct people, that saw wave upon wave of other migrating through, and today, are the people we see before us. While there is nothing wrong with with that, it all comes down to the narrative arc that unites us as a nation.

This is why, like it or not, Pakistan is the expression of a United Muslim led state on these lands, and the last time Muslims of this region were United under was the Mughals. In a similar way as to how the Turks have to recognize the Ottoman Empire as an evolutionary step in their national identity, we too can not avoid the last Muslim state under which we were unified. Just like the Turks, we don’t have to embrace all the empire did. We don’t need a king nor a similar style of government. This is why we should be studying the culture that was naturally evolving before the British took over. The different view points and sub-cultures (of the decedents of the IVC peoples) that we’re going on under the Mughals.


Garbage or not, they were the last unified Muslim state on our lands. Please elaborate on the class difference changing the perspective.

Technically, historically and factually Durrani empire was the last Muslim empire in South Asia not the Mughal empire and it covered entire Pakistan, Afghanistan, and parts of Iran. It birthed the modern Afghan state.

 

[FuturePAF]

Technically, historically and factually Durrani empire was the last Muslim empire in South Asia not the Mughal empire and it covered entire Pakistan, Afghanistan, and parts of Iran. It birthed the modern Afghan state.

I stand corrected. I should have known that. Having said that, how do you think the Durrani empire plays into our identity or should play into our identity?

 

[Pak Nationalist]

I stand corrected. I should have known that. Having said that, how do you think the Durrani empire plays into our identity or should play into our identity?

I would see Durranis as fellow people of Gandhara as well. The civilization of Gandhara spanned across Afghanistan as well. We need to ground ourselves into the history of our region. We can see that religious identity could take us as far as it did in 1971. Bengalis claim West Pakistani prejudice did not see a place for them in the federation. Not many have tried to explain why it was if there is merit to their claim. We, the people of Indus and Gandhara, were a distinct subcontinental civilization. Bengal evolved with the civilizations of the Ganges and Brahmaputra. That is why one can see distinct similarities in the customs and cultures of dwellers in the Gangetic plains and the Bengalis.