Pakistan's Growing Human Capital

[Vinod2070]

While many Pakistanis continue to demonstrate a great deal of anxiety about their identity (leading to the identity crisis as explained by several Pakistani writers) and that makes them want to validate the two nation theory every day, every hour, every minute and sometimes every second.

The most important aspect of that validation process is to assume that Indian Muslims are doing worse than Pakistani Muslims. This is simply not true. Indian Muslims have benefited from the Indian growth story and liberal secular democracy along with other Indian citizens.

They enjoy better Indicators than Pakistani Muslims on every conceivable parameter, leave alone the far greater sense of security for every Muslim sect. In Pakistan, all minority sects like Ahmedis and Shia are under great threat. Their shrines are blown up with the worshipers. Around 20,000 Shia have been killed in sectarian killings, most of them after the 1980s.

Tarek Fatah: India is the only country where Muslims exert influence without fear - Times Of India

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\04\10\story_10-4-2009_pg3_4

We should be grateful that some Muslims remained in India and learned to compete. These Muslims are going to compete internationally and give us something to be proud of while our elites in Pakistan, who shun excellence and hard work, maintain their privilege and extravagance

Many of us watched the Oscars with a lump in our throats when AR Rehman was given a standing ovation by the American movie establishment. Rehman, a Muslim from a country we don’t consider friendly to Muslims, was eulogised by the Hollywood establishment, traditionally controlled by those of the Jewish persuasion. Rehman’s obvious talent overwhelmed them all. Jai ho!

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the self-confessed leader of the banned outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba, may think that Pakistan is the best Islamic nation for the Bollywood star, Shahrukh Khan to move to, but it is India that is arguably the best Muslim country today. Muslims in India enjoy complete political and religious liberty, a free legislative environment to undertake economic and educational initiatives, a vibrant television media and cinema that teach liberal coexistence, and access to a vast number of universities and institutes of modern education. There is absolutely no Muslim country that offers such a vast array of freedoms to its people.

 

[Dushmann]

Riaz Haq sahab, which untouchabales are you talking about? Untouchable Arzal Muslims or non-muslim untouchables, or all of untouchables in general. What about Christians in Pakistani Punjab (Churas) who are treated as untouchables by Pakistani Muslims and often subjected to atrocities?

For now I presume you are talking about non muslim formerly untouchables castes (scheduled castes) of India.

If you take a glance at literacy rates you will notice that condition Pakistan is worst than even Indian Muslims. So basically you are saying that condition of Pakistan is worse than Indian untouchables.

BTW, large chunk of educated and wealthy upper caste Ashraf Muslims ran away to Pakistan and then suddenly closed gates for rest of Indian Muslims. So basically majority of Indian Muslims left behind were from poor Ajlaf castes (corresponding to OBC castes of Hindus) who were nothing but slaves for the upper caste Ashrafs (which is true to some extent even today, especially in Pakistan). And still Pakistan is comparatively worse in literacy! Among the patriotic Indian Muslims that stayed in India, some from the upper castes went on to create a software giant like Wipro and a multinational pharma company like Cipla, whereas a poor Muslim from a fisherman family went on to become a great scientist in Indian space agency and President of India.

Now remove the educated wealthy upper class/castes from Pakistan's already low literate population, what will be the real literacy of majority of Pakistani Awaam? less than 50%?

 

[Dushmann]

The growing human capital of Pakistan is part of growing human capital of Muslim world in general.
Here is a relevent article by Dr. M.I.H. Farooqi from a Muslim publication.

Growth of Muslim population - no case for rejoicing
The Milli Gazette
Published Online: Dec 31, 2012
Print Issue: 1-15 December 2009
By Dr. M.I.H. Farooqi
mihfarooqi@gmail.com

According to a recent report from US-based Pew Research Center, there are 1 billion 570 million Muslims living in the world today, and thus every fourth person on this earth is a Muslim. Is this report a good reason for rejoicing? I do not think so. On the contrary Muslims should do some exercise for self appraisal after this report. Why with 25 percent (1.5 Billion) in this world they are scientifically and technologically backward, politically marginalized and economically poor. Why their share of World GDP (60 trillion dollars) is hardly 3 trillion dollars which is less than the GDP of France (Population 70 Millions), about half of the GDP of Japan (Population 120 Millions) and one fifth of GDP of U. S. (Population 300 Millions). It is important to know that Christians constitute about 35% of the world population but control nearly 70% of the World's wealth.
In case of Human Development Index too, ranking of Muslim countries, with the exception of some oil producing Arab countries, is very low. In scientific field record of Muslim nations is dismal. Hardly five hundred Science Ph. D's. are produced every year. This number is three thousand in U. K. alone. Out of the five hundred and odd Nobel Prizes in Science from 1901 to 2008, Jews, who are 0.2 per cent of the World population, got around 140 Prizes (25%) as against only one to a Muslim (the other one being declared non-Muslim by Pakistan), which is about 0.2% of the total Awards. What a sad commentary for Muslims as far as scientific achievements are concerned. Another disheartening report has appeared recently from Shanghai University which has listed top four hundred World Universities with high standard of teaching and research. None from the Islamic World finds a place in the list. This is really painful situation, particularly when compared with period of shining Islamic Civilization of Middle Ages (7th to 16th Century). Well known Science Historian Gillespie has recorded around 130 names of scientists and technologists who made great impact during middle ages. Out of this number 120 scientists belonged to Islamic world and only four from Europe. Is this not enough reason for Muslims to know their past critically, ***** the present honestly and determine the future rationally.

I can add little more information, not a happy one, about the so-called numerical strength of Muslims in coming years. With the present birth rate, Muslim population will be doubled in next 50 years. i e. it would be around 3 billions. In that scenario Muslims will surpass the Christian population which stands today at about 2.3 billion but will only be doubled in 500 years.

Once again that situation will not be good either for Muslims because with the present economic conditions prevailing in the Muslim World and the backwardness they are experiencing today, their growth in terms of population may still aggravates the economic problems instead of solving it. Doubling the population in next fifty years may still increase the economic gap between Muslims and Christians nations. Who will dominate the World thus in this century or the next century? Muslims with 5% of global wealth or Christians with 70% of world economic power. Muslims must understand that numerical strength of any nation or a country does not guarantee respect and dominance in the present day scientifically advanced world. It is only scientific knowledge which matters and which brings respect, power and wealth. There are many examples which prove the futility of higher population with lower economic and military power. For instance, powerful (economically, militarily, scientifically) small Jew community of Israel is considered a perpetual threat to a very large population (technologically backward) of Arab countries who rightly feel defeated and cheated. Another glaring example is of those small numbers of Muslims who are living in the West and but are happy with their economic prosperity whereas in many Muslim majority countries with large population, they are experiencing hardship of various kinds. Gross Domestic product of about 20 million Muslims living in Europe is higher than the entire Muslim population of Indian subcontinent which is around 500 million Nissim Hasan, an Islamic Scholar of repute, has observed that "Diminishing Muslim vision of knowledge is singularly responsible for the decline of economic and political power of the Islamic civilization. We have failed now for centuries to become leaders of humanity. We have surrendered our vision, our faith and our reason to deadwoods". Mahathir Mohammad (Former P. M., Malaysia) has rightly advised Muslims "to give up their illogical beliefs and regressing thoughts and be prepared to face the challenges of the fast changing social order (OIC Conference, Kuala Lumpur).

It is important to note that during their Rule of Spain (8th century AD to 14th century A.D.), Muslims dominated the entire Europe as the Muslim Spain was hub of scientific activity and its earnings were higher than the earning of entire Europe. Today situation has changed topsy turvy. Today DGP of Christian Spain is higher than that of combined 12 Oil Producing Muslim Countries. It was not Spain alone that was a highly developed country in the Islamic World during Middle Ages, but all the regions and cities under Islamic Rule such as Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, Tripoli etc were humming with scientific activities. Islamic Society all over the world was considered to be highly developed scientifically, intellectually, culturally and economically. In contrast, as described by Donald Cambell- (Surgeon- France) "When Science flourished in the Islamic World, Europe was on dark ages and evils of pedantry, bigotry, cruelty, charms, amulets and relics were common there"(Muslim Medicine). It is important to note that during the Rise of Islam, world population of Muslims was hardly ten percent. According to Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, the great Visionary of India, this situation "started changing after sixteenth century when Muslim Society stagnated and followed the lifestyle of Europeans of Dark Ages. On the other hand Europeans (Christians) turned towards progressive thinking and scientific pursuits of Muslims" (Letters of Azad). Result was obvious. Muslim Society which dominated the World for about eight hundred years in all respect of human activity, started declining in their intellectual vitality, and were ultimately dominated by the Emerging Power of Europe. Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi, great thinker of Islam, explains "After sixteenth century Muslims lost the interest in Enquiry and Physical Sciences and engaged themselves more in Metaphysical Sciences with the result they could not produce great men of knowledge (genius). Muslims forgot their own scientific thinking and followed only traditional knowledge. They, therefore, lagged behind in Science and Technology and thus became slaves of the West". (Islam & the West).

Sometime back political scientist Samuel P. Huntington expressed his view that the recent conflict between the West and the Muslim World is actually a Clash of Civilization. This is an absolute nonsense. In fact it is a clash between the rich and poor. Rich nations are dictating their terms and poor nations are subjected to exploitation and humiliations. Poor nations, Muslims or non-Muslims, should understand that their survival depends entirely on global peace and their unnecessary conflict with the rich nations, particularly in the name of religion, will only land them into greater trouble and distress. Muslims can only regain their past glory, if they adopt scientific renaissance similar to European renaissance, more vigorously and faster than done by Europe. But before this is done, Muslims have to condemn and reject forces of extremism and promote true Islamic values of tolerance and moderation. Hatred of the West will do no good to Muslims. This will only lead to their greater miseries. Hating the West but taking pride in getting Visas or Green Cards for living in the West is nothing short of hypocrisy and duplicity.

Some distinguished rulers of Arab world in general and Saudi Arabia King Abdullah in particular must be congratulated and supported for their recent initiative of interfaith dialogues and understanding between all the Faiths of the World. In a recently held Interfaith Conference, King Abdullah rightly observed that" Islam must do away with the dangers of extremism to present the religion's "good message". We must tell the whole world that we are a voice of justice and values and humanity, and we are a voice of coexistence. Islamic world faces difficult challenges from the extremism of some Muslims, whose aggressions target the magnanimity, fairness and lofty aims of Islam".

Muslims do not need empty slogans and misplaced religious fervour. It is high time that they interact with the West as responsible nations. They must welcome Barrack Obama's Cairo Speech which invites Muslims to join hands with the West for Global Peace and Prosperity. Obama's initiatives should be supported, his hands strengthened so that he succeeds in his stupendous task of unity of all faiths for the cause of better Understanding and Peace on highly charged and disturbed Earth. President Hosni Mubarak has rightly observed that "Islamic civilization respects all the mankind and this must be made clear to the whole world, not by words, but rather by deeds and conduct." It is high time that close contact and cooperation is established between Nobel Peace Prize Winner Obama and Muslim Nations in general and Arab Countries in particular. This will greatly help weakening the Anti-Islamic Forces of the West, which have, no doubt, existed there since the period of Crusades.

Growth of Muslim population - no case for rejoicing

The backwardness of Indian and Pakistani Muslims is part of a general trend worldwide.

 

[RiazHaq]

1. Muslims, the New Untouchables in India:

While India maintains its facade of religious tolerance, democracy and secularism through a few high-profile Muslim tokens among its high officials and celebrities, the ground reality for the vast majority of ordinary Muslims is much harsher.

An Indian government commission headed by former Indian Chief Justice Rajendar Sachar confirms that Muslims are the new untouchables in caste-ridden and communal India. Indian Muslims suffer heavy discrimination in almost every field from education and housing to jobs. Their incarceration rates are also much higher than their Hindu counterparts.

According to Sachar Commission report, Muslims are now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men are unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% are unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 ca not read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims account for 40% of India’s prison population. Meanwhile, they hold less than 5% of government jobs.

2. Upward Economic Mobility in Pakistan:

In spite of all of its problems, Pakistan has continued to offer higher upward economic and social mobility to its citizens over the last two decades than India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report titled "Asia's Emerging Middle Class: Past, Present And Future".

Miles Corak of University of Ottawa calculates that the intergenerational earnings elasticity in Pakistan is 0.46, the same as in Switzerland. It means that a difference of 100% between the incomes of a rich father and a poor father is reduced to 46% difference between their sons' incomes. Among the 22 countries studied, Peru, China and Brazil have the lowest economic mobility with inter-generational elasticity of 0.67, 0.60 and 0.58 respectively. The highest economic mobility is offered by Denmark (0.15), Norway (0.17) and Finland (0.18).

The author also looked at Gini coefficient of each country and found reasonably good correlation between Gini and intergenerational income elasticity.

More evidence of upward mobility is offered by recent Euromonitor market research indicating that Pakistanis are seeing rising disposable incomes. It says that there were 1.8 million Pakistani households (7.55% of all households) and 7.9 million Indian households (3.61% of all households) in 2009 with disposable incomes of $10,001 or more. This translates into 282% increase (vs 232% in India) from 1995-2009 in households with disposable incomes of $10,001 or more. Consumer spending in Pakistan has increased at a 26 percent average pace the past three years, compared with 7.7 percent for Asia, according to Bloomberg.

3. East Pakistan Debacle:

Critics love to point out Pakistan's break-up in 1971 as evidence of failure of Jinnah's Pakistan.
They lavish praise on Bangladesh and scold Pakistan as part of the annual ritual a few days before Quaid-e-Azam's birthday every year.

Economic gap between East and West Pakistan in 1960s is often cited as a key reason for the secessionist movement led by Shaikh Mujib's Awami League and the creation of Bangladesh in 1971. This disparity has grown over the last 40 years, and the per capita income in Pakistan now stands at more than twice Bangladesh's in 2012 in nominal dollar terms, higher than 1.6 in 1971.

Here are some figures from Economist magazine's EIU 2013:

Bangladesh GDP per head: $695 (PPP: $1,830)

Pakistan GDP per head: $1,410 (PPP: $2,960)

Pakistan-Bangladesh GDP per head Ratio: 2.03 ( PPP: 1.62)

4. Poverty, Hunger, Other Socioeconomic Indicators:

Pakistan's employment growth has been the highest in South Asia region since 2000, followed by Nepal, Bangladesh, India, and Sri Lanka in that order, according to a recent World Bank report titled "More and Better Jobs in South Asia".

Total employment in South Asia (excluding Afghanistan and Bhutan) rose from 473 million in 2000 to 568 million in 2010, creating an average of just under 800,000 new jobs a month. In all countries except Maldives and Sri Lanka, the largest share of the employed are the low‐end self-employed.


Pakistanis have higher graduation rates in education and suffer lower levels of hunger and poverty than Indians and Bangladeshis.

Pakistanis spend more time in schools and colleges and graduate at a higher rate than their Indian counterparts in 15+ age group, according to a report on educational achievement by Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

Here is a summary of Barro-Lee's 2010 data in percentage of 15+ age group students who have enrolled in and-or completed primary, secondary and tertiary education:

Education Level.......India........Pakistan

Primary (Total)........20.9..........21.8

Primary (Completed)....18.9..........19.3

Secondary(Total).......40.7..........34.6

Secondary(Completed)...0.9...........22.5

College(Total).........5.8...........5.5

College(Completed).....3.1...........3.9



According to the latest world hunger index rankings, Pakistan ranks 57 while India and Bangladesh are worse at 65 and 68 among 79 countries ranked by International Food Policy Research Institute in 2012.

World Hunger Index 2012


The latest World Bank data shows that India's poverty rate of 27.5%, based on India's current poverty line of $1.03 per person per day, is more than 10 percentage points higher than Pakistan's 17.2%. Assam (urban), Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are the only three Indian states with similar or lower poverty rates than Pakistan's.

Clearly, Pakistanis have not lived up to Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's vision of a tolerant and democratic Pakistan where the basic rights of all of its citizens, including religious and ethnic minorities, are fully respected. Popular Pakistani columnist Ardeshir Cowasjee put it well when he wrote: "Fortunately for him, Jinnah did not live long enough to see his dream betrayed by men unworthy even to utter his name. He died before total disillusionment could set in (though he had his suspicions that it was on its way) and broke his heart. From what we know of him, he was that rare being, an incorruptible man in all the many varied meanings of the word corruption, purchasable by no other, swayed by no other, perverted by no other; a man of honor, integrity and high ideals. That the majority of his countrymen have been found wanting in these qualities is this country's tragedy."

I do think, however, that all of the available and credible data and indicators confirm the fact that Muslims in Pakistan are not only much better off than they are elsewhere in South Asia, they also enjoy higher economic and social mobility than their counterparts in India and Bangladesh.

Haq's Musings: Are Muslims Worse Off in Jinnah's Pakistan?

 

[RiazHaq]

Riaz Haq sahab, which untouchabales are you talking about? Untouchable Arzal Muslims or non-muslim untouchables, or all of untouchables in general. What about Christians in Pakistani Punjab (Churas) who are treated as untouchables by Pakistani Muslims and often subjected to atrocities?

For now I presume you are talking about non muslim formerly untouchables castes (scheduled castes) of India.

The fact is that that Muslims as a group (regardless of your definitions of caste or sub-caste) in India are worse off than Dalits.

According to Sachar Commission report, Muslims are now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men are unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% are unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 can not read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims account for 40% of India’s prison population. Meanwhile, they hold less than 5% of government jobs.

 

[Vinod2070]

Most Muslims in the subcontinent come from the same Dalit classes.

They had already fallen behind every other community before independence due to their regressive attitudes and social customs and attitude towards education and modernity.

Indian Muslims are doing far better then Pakistani Muslims on every conceivable parameters, enjoying democracy ad religious freedom for every sect, something no Muslim country in the world can provide.

 

[Dushmann]

The fact is that that Muslims as a group (regardless of your definitions of caste or sub-caste) in India are worse off than Dalits.

According to Sachar Commission report, Muslims are now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men are unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% are unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 can not read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims account for 40% of India’s prison population. Meanwhile, they hold less than 5% of government jobs.

- I am not Muslim, so it is not about my caste system, it is about YOUR i.e. Muslim caste system. I was hoping I could learn more from a learned upper caste Shia senior member like you, but since you insist on turning a blind eye, here is an article by Raza Rumi for basic understanding

Casteism: alive and well in Pakistan
16 February 2009

Published in The Friday Times, Pakistan

It is a cliché now to say that Pakistan is a country in transition – on a highway to somewhere. The direction remains unclear but the speed of transformation is visibly defying its traditionally overbearing, and now cracking postcolonial state. Globalisation, the communications revolution and a growing middle class have altered the contours of a society beset by the baggage and layers of confusing history.
What has however emerged despite the affinity with jeans, FM radios and McDonalds is the visible trumpeting of caste-based identities. In Lahore, one finds hundreds of cars with the owner’s caste or tribe displayed as a marker of pride and distinctiveness. As an urbanite, I always found it difficult to comprehend the relevance of zaat-paat (casteism) until I experienced living in the peri-urban and sometimes rural areas of the Punjab as a public servant.
I recall the days when in a central Punjab district, I was mistaken for a Kakayzai (a Punjabi caste that claims to have originated from the Caucasus) so I started getting correspondence from the Anjuman-i-Kakayzai professionals who were supposed to hold each other’s hands in the manner of the Free Masons. I enjoyed the game and pretended that I was one of them for a while, until it became unbearable for its sheer silliness and mercenary objectives.
It was also here that a subordinate told me in chaste Punjabi how the Gujjar caste was not a social group but a ‘religion’ in itself. Or that the Rajputs were superior to everyone else, second only to the Syeds. All else was the junk that had converted from the lowly Hindus (of course this included my family). My first name is also a matter of sectarian interpretation. Another subordinate in my younger days lectured me on the importance of sticking together as the ‘victims’ of the Sunni majoritarian violence of Pakistani society. Mistaken as a Momin I also got a chance to know intra-group dynamics better, and also how closely knit such groups are and what they think of others. This reminds me of the horrific tales our domestic helper used to tell us about the Shi’ites, and as children we were scared to even go near a Moharram procession, until one day my Sunni parents fired her for poisoning their children’s minds.
My personal inclinations aside, for in the footsteps of the great Urdu poet Ghalib, I view myself as half a Shia, this has been a matter of concern. Can I not exist as a human being without being part of a herd? Obedience to hierarchies, conformity and identification with groups are central tenets of existing in Pakistan.
At a training institution fifteen years ago, where a group of us were being taught how to become ‘officers’, a colleague cooked up a fanciful story about me. In the lecture hall, I had argued for a secular state, quoting Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 speech and had highlighted the shoddy treatment of the minorities in Pakistan as a betrayal of the Quaid’s vision. This imaginative colleague circulated the rumour that the reason for my political views was that I belonged to the Ahmaddiya Jamaat. One could of course talk of the marginalised only if one was a part of that group. Otherwise why should we care, semi-citizens that we are!
In the twenty first century, Punjab’s entire electoral landscape is still defined by caste and biradari loyalties. In the 1980s, General Zia ul Haq’s machinations spearheaded a second social engineering in the Punjab by resuscitating the demons of clan, caste and tribe. Party-less elections helped Zia to undermine the PPP but it also gave enormous leeway to the state agencies to pick and choose loyalties when election was all about the elders of a biradari. His Arain (a non-land tilling caste) background became a topic of discussion as many Arains used this card to great personal and commercial advantage during his tenure. This is similar to what the Kashmiris have perceived under the multiple reigns of the now rechristened (in a democratic sense) Sharifs of the Punjab, who are proud Kashmiris.
Why blame the Punjabis only? In the early years of Pakistan, the migrants from India had set the ground for the politics of patronage along ethnic and group-lines. Karachi became divided into little Lucknows, Delhis and other centres of nostalgia. Employment opportunities and claims of property, as several personal accounts and autobiographies reveal, were doled out on the basis of affiliation to pre-partition networks – Aligarh, Delhi, UP qasbaas and Hyderabadi neighbourhoods. The same goes for the smaller units of Pakistan. Small wonder that the Bengalis ran away from the Pakistan project, despite being its original initiators.
We pride ourselves on being a nuclear armed Islamic state that broke away from the prejudiced Baniyas whose abominable caste system was inhuman. But what do we practice? Who said casteism was extinct in Pakistan? My friends have not been allowed to marry outside their caste or sect, Christian servants in Pakistani households are not permitted to touch kitchen utensils, and the word ‘choora’ is the ultimate insult after the ritualistic out-of wedlock sex and incestuous abuses involving mothers and sisters or their unmentionable anatomical parts. A Sindhi acquaintance told me how easy it was to exploit the Hindu girls at his workplace or at home. And what about the many blasphemy cases in the Punjabi villages, the roots of which are located in social hierarchies and chains of obedience.
The untouchables of the cities and the villages are called something else but they remain the underbelly of our existence. Admittedly these incidences are on a lesser scale than in India. That simply is a function of demographics. Even Mohammad Iqbal, the great reformist poet, lamented in one of his couplets: Youn tau Syed bhi ho, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho/Tum sabhi kuch ho, batao tau Mussalman bhi ho (You are Syeds, Mirzas and Afghans/You are everything but Muslims).
Enter into a seemingly educated Punjabi setting and the conversation will not shy away from references to caste characteristics. For instance, I once heard a lawyer make a remark about a high-ranking public official, calling him a nai (barber) and therefore branding him as the lowest of the low. One of the reasons for Zardari-bashing in Sindh, has to do with the Zardari tribe’s historical moorings. They were camel herders as opposed to the ruling classes with fiefs.
When the young motorists playing FM radio, mast music, arranging dates on mastee chats, display the primordial caste characteristic on their windscreens, one worries if the ongoing change process can deliver a better society. Superficial signs of change cannot make up for the need for a secular educational system, equality of opportunity and accountability of political elites and their patron-state that use casteism as an instrument of gaining and sustaining power.
More bewildered, I wonder where I belong. Bulleh Shah has taught me that shedding categorisations is the first step towards self-knowledge. But I live in a society where branding and group labels are essential, if not unavoidable.
For this reason I am peeved that I still don’t know who I am.

Here is some general information about caste system in south asian Islam

Caste system among South Asian Muslims
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is a system of social stratification among South Asian Muslims that has some similarity to the Hindu caste system.


Religious, historical and sociocultural factors have helped define the bounds of endogamous groups for Muslims in South Asia. There is a preference for endogamous marriages based on the clan-oriented nature of the society, which values and actively seeks similarities in social group identity based on several factors, including religious, sectarian, ethnic, and tribal/clan affiliation. Religious affiliation is itself multilayered and includes religious considerations other than being Muslim, such as sectarian identity (e.g. Shia or Sunni, etc.) and religious orientation within the sect (Isnashari, Ismaili, Ahmedi, etc.). Both ethnic affiliation (e.g. Sindhi, Baloch, Punjabi, etc.) and membership of specific biraderis or Jat/quoms (see Jatis under) are additional integral components of social identity. Within the bounds of endogamy defined by the above parameters, close consanguineous unions are preferred due to a congruence of key features of group- and individual-level background factors as well as affinities.

Stratification

In some parts of South Asia, the Muslims are divided as Ashrafs and Ajlafs.[5] Ashrafs claim a superior status derived from their foreign ancestry.[6][7] The non-Ashrafs are assumed to be converts from Hinduism, and are therefore drawn from the indigenous population. They, in turn, are divided into a number of occupational castes.[7]

Sections of the ulema (scholars of Islamic jurisprudence) provide religious legitimacy to caste with the help of the concept of kafa'a. A classical example of scholarly declaration of the Muslim caste system is the Fatawa-i-Jahandari, written by the fourteenth century Turkish scholar, Ziauddin Barani, a member of the court of Muhammad bin Tughlaq, of the Tughlaq dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate. Barani was known for his intensely casteist views, and regarded the Ashraf Muslims as racially superior to the Ajlaf Muslims. He divided the Muslims into grades and sub-grades. In his scheme, all high positions and privileges were to be a monopoly of the high born Turks, not the Indian Muslims.

Even in his interpretation of the Koranic verse "Indeed, the pious amongst you are most honored by Allah", he considered piety to be associated with noble birth. Barani was specific in his recommendation that the "sons of Mohamed" [i.e. Ashrafs] "be given a higher social status than the low-born [i.e. Ajlaf].[8] His most significant contribution in the fatwa was his analysis of the castes with respect to Islam.[8] His assertion was that castes would be mandated through state laws or "Zawabi" and would carry precedence over Sharia law whenever they were in conflict.[8]

In the Fatwa-i-Jahandari (advice XXI), he wrote about the "qualities of the high-born" as being "virtuous" and the "low-born" being the "custodian of vices". Every act which is "contaminated with meanness and based on ignominity, comes elegantly [from the Ajlaf]".[8] Barani had a clear disdain for the Ajlaf and strongly recommended that they be denied education, lest they usurp the Ashraf masters. He sought appropriate religious sanction to that effect.[4] Barani also developed an elaborate system of promotion and demotion of Imperial officers ("Wazirs") that was primarily on the basis of their caste.[8]

In addition to the Ashraf/Ajlaf divide, there is also the Arzal caste among Muslims, who were regarded by anti-Caste activists like as the equivalent of untouchables.[9][10] The term "Arzal" stands for "degraded" and the Arzal castes are further subdivided into Bhanar, Halalkhor, Hijra, Kasbi, Lalbegi, Maugta, Mehtar etc.[9][10][11] The Arzal group was recorded in the 1901 census in India and are also called Muslims “with whom no other Muhammadan would associate, and who are forbidden to enter the mosque or to use the public burial ground”. They are relegated to "menial" professions such as scavenging and carrying night soil.[12]

Some South Asian Muslims have been known to stratify their society according to Quoms.[13] These Muslims practise a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest. Studies of Bengali Muslims in India indicate that the concepts of purity and impurity exist among them and are applicable in inter-group relationships, as the notions of hygiene and cleanliness in a person are related to the person's social position and not to his/her economic status.[7] Muslim Rajput is another caste distinction among Indian Muslims.

Some of the backward or lower-caste Muslim caste include Ansari, Kunjra, Dhobi and Halalkhor. The upper caste Muslim caste include Qureshi, Syed, Pathan, Turk, Sheikh and Mallik.[14] Genetic data has also supported this stratification.[15]

The report commissioned by the government of India and released in 2006, documents the continued stratification in Muslim society.
[edit]

Interaction and mobility
Main article: Jajmani system

Interactions between the oonchi zat (upper caste) and neechi zat (lower caste) are regulated by established patron-client relationships of the jajmani system, the upper castes being referred to as the 'Jajmans', and the lower caste as 'Kamin'. Upon contact with a low-caste Muslim, a Muslim of a higher zat can "purify" by taking a short bath, since there are no elaborate rituals for purification.[7] In Bihar state of India, cases have been reported in which the higher caste Muslims have opposed the burials of lower caste Muslims in the same graveyard.[14]

Some data indicates that the castes among Muslims have never been as rigid as that among Hindus.[16] The rate of endogamous marriage, for example, is less than two thirds.[16] An old saying also goes "Last year I was a Julaha (weaver); this year a Shaikh; and next year if the harvest be good, I shall be a Sayyid."[17]
[edit]

Castes in Pakistan

The social stratification among Muslims in the "Swat" area of North Pakistan has been meaningfully compared to the Caste system in India. The society is rigidly divided into subgroups where each Quom is assigned a profession. Different Quoms are not permitted to intermarry or live in the same community. These Muslims practice a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest.

Stephen M. Lyon of University of Kent has written about what he calls "Gujarism", the act of Gurjars in Pakistan seeking out other Gurjars to form associations, and consolidate ties with them, based strictly on caste affiliation

Criticism

Scholars tried to reconcile and resolve the "disjunction between Qur'anic egalitarianism and Indian Muslim social practice" through theorizing it in different ways and interpreting the Qur'an and Sharia to justify casteism.

Some scholars theorize that the Muslim Castes are not as acute in their discrimination as that among Hindus. Dr B.R.Ambedkar argued otherwise, writing that the social evils in Muslim society were "worse than those seen in Hindu society".

Babasaheb Ambedkar was an illustrious figure in Indian politics and the chief architect of the Indian Constitution. He was extremely critical of the Muslim Caste System and their practices, quoting that "Within these groups there are castes with social precedence of exactly the same nature as one finds among the Hindus but worse in numerous ways". He was critical of how the Ashrafs regarded the Ajlaf and Arzal as "worthless" and the fact that Muslims tried to sugarcoat the sectarian divisions by using euphemisms like "brotherhood" to describe them. He was also critical of the precept of literalism of scripture among Indian Muslims that led them to keep the Muslim Caste system rigid and discriminatory. He decried against the approval of Shariah to Muslim casteism. It was based on superiority of foreign elements in society which would ultimately lead to downfall of local Dalits. This tragedy would be much more harsher than Hindus who are ethnically related to and supportive of Dalits. This Arabian supremacy in Indian Muslims accounted for its equal disapproval by high and low caste Hindus during 1300 years of Islamic presence in India. He condemned the Indian Muslim Community of being unable to reform like Muslims in other countries like Turkey did during the early decades of the twentieth century.


Pakistani-American sociologist Ayesha Jalal writes, in her book, "Democracy and Authoritarianism in South Asia", that "Islam in South Asia historically has been unable to avoid the impact of class and caste inequalities. The hierarchical principles of the Brahmanical social order have always been contested from within Hindu society, suggesting that equality has been and continues to be both valued and practiced in Hinduism."

 

[Dushmann]

as for sachar report, it is biased politically motivated report promoting upper caste muslim propoganda and vested interests. fact is upper caste muslims are not just adequately represented in political structure and governance in india, they are actually OVERREPRESENTED. It is the lower castes that are grossly underrepreneted. Who is responsible for this? not Indian state whose egalitarian and tolerant constitution treats everyone as equal, or the non muslims of south asia; ONLY UPPER CASTE MUSLIMS OF SOUTH ASIA ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, it is they who have tight grip over whole muslim community, religious structure and power and instead of guiding them to better future, they have kept the low caste muslim awaam illiterate, backword, religiously brainwashed so as to serve as slaves for the upper caste muslims. It is sad to see that you are also promoting the same upper caste muslim propaganda.

 

[RiazHaq]

Here's a piece by Thane Richard, a Brown University student who did a semester abroad at St. Stephens College in India:

“Wait, what?! You are studying here for three years just so you can go do it again for four more years?” I could not grasp the logic of this. What changed my understanding was when I started taking classes at St. Stephen’s College. Except for one, they were horrible.
This was not an isolated incident — all my fellow exchange students concurred that the academics were a joke compared to what we were used to back home. In one economic history class the professor would enter the room, take attendance, open his notebook, and begin reading. He would read his notes word for word while we, his students, copied these notes word for word until the bell sounded. Next class he would find the spot where the bell had interrupted him, like a storyteller reading to children and trying to recall where he had last put down the story. He would even pause slightly at the end of a long sentence to give us enough time to finish writing before he moved on. And this was only when he decided to show up — many times I arrived on campus to find class abruptly cancelled. Classmates exchanged cell phone numbers and created phone trees just to circulate word of a cancelled class. I got a text almost daily about one of my classes. My foreigner peers had many similar experiences.
---------------
To pause for a moment, here is the problem with me talking about this topic: right now many Indians reading this are starting to feel defensive. “Nationalist” is a term I have heard as a self-description as they defend Mother India from the bigoted, criticising foreigner. They focus on me rather than the problem. I have had people unfriend me on Facebook and walk out on meals because I politely expressed an opinion on politics or history that went against the publicly consented “Indian opinion.” For a nation that prides itself on the 17 languages printed on its currency, I am greeted with remarkable intolerance. Even after living in India for close to three years, attending an Indian college, working for an Indian company, founding an Indian company, paying taxes in India, and making India my home, I am not Indian enough to speak my mind. But in a nation that rivals all others in the breadth of its human diversity, who is Indian enough? Because if loyalty and a feeling of patriotism were the barometers for “Indianness,” rather than skin colour or a government document, then I would easily be a dual U.S.-Indian citizen. This Indian defensiveness is false nationalism. It is not a stance that cares about India, it is one that cares about what others think of India, which is not nationalism. That is narcissism.
My voice should be drowned out by the millions around me who are disappointed with how they have been short-changed by the Indian government — their government. Education is one of the most poignant examples of this and serves as great dinner conversation amongst the elite:
“The Indian education system is lost in the past and failing India.” Everyone at the table nods, mumbles their concurrence, and cites the most recent Economist article or Pricewaterhouse Cooper study on the matter in order to masquerade as informed....

An Indian education? - The Hindu

 

[Vinod2070]

Hans Rosling: Asia's rise -- how and when - YouTube

Watch this guy talking about how studying with Indian students opened his eyes.

The first 2 minutes are very interesting, though the whole video is very good.

 

[RiazHaq]

Some India watchers such as Fareed Zakaria, an Indian-American who often acts as a cheerleader for India in the US, have expressed doubts about the quality of education at the Indian Institutes of Technology. In his book "The Post-American World", Zakaria argues that "many of the IITs are decidedly second-rate, with mediocre equipment, indifferent teachers, and unimaginative classwork." Zakaria says the key strength of the IIT graduates is the fact that they must pass "one of the world's most ruthlessly competitive entrance exams. Three hundred thousand people take it, five thousand are admitted--an acceptance rate of 1.7% (compared with 9 to 10 percent for Harvard, Yale, and Princeton)."

Haq's Musings: More on Quality of Higher Education in India and Pakistan

 

[soccerhero]

^^ Pakistan poverty rate is 37.5 %. Why do you again claim it to be 17.5% again and again????

According to latest World Bank estimates, Pakistan ranked most exposed to poverty risks among 43 countries. Its poverty rate jumped from 23.9 per cent to 37.5 per cent in three years. This can be described as devastating.

Jump in Pakistan

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ Pakistan poverty rate is 37.5 %. Why do you again claim it to be 17.5% again and again????

Jump in Pakistan

Cherry picking.

Scavenging.

Being too clever by half.

 

[RiazHaq]

^^ Pakistan poverty rate is 37.5 %. Why do you again claim it to be 17.5% again and again????



Jump in Pakistan

Using this measure of under $2 a day, India's poverty rate is 75%.

The latest World Bank data shows that India's poverty rate of 27.5%, based on India's current poverty line of $1.03 per person per day, is more than 10 percentage points higher than Pakistan's 17.2%. Assam (urban), Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are the only three Indian states with similar or lower poverty rates than Pakistan's.

Haq's Musings: World Bank on Poverty Across India in 2011

http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/2011/01/14151242/perspectives-poverty-india-stylized-facts-survey-data

 

[Glitcher]

Most Muslims in the subcontinent come from the same Dalit classes.

They had already fallen behind every other community before independence due to their regressive attitudes and social customs and attitude towards education and modernity.

Indian Muslims are doing far better then Pakistani Muslims on every conceivable parameters, enjoying democracy ad religious freedom for every sect, something no Muslim country in the world can provide.

what freedom are you talking about can they slaughter cow at eid no they cant and this is just 1 thing where was muslim freedom when baburi majid was destroyed ? and thousands of muslims were killed do you have any answer for that ?