Pakistan's Growing Human Capital

[Vinod2070]

flitting from topic to topic like a little ferret now are we ??

Thought we were commenting on the manufactured component of exports What happened there? Do you concede that India in real per capita terms exports 13% more manufactured goods than Pakistan ?

Pakistan has no real middle class to speak of.

This is a country where a former army chief and dictator president runs from the court in full view of the Police, after being ordered to be arrested!

In this context, it is useful to look at other indicators. In 2007, Pakistan had 1.44 million passenger cars and 2.7 million motorcycles in use. Even if we assume all those had a motorcycle belonged to a middle class household and assuming 6 members per family, the number of people belonging to the middle class households would not have exceeded 25 million in 2007. While it is true that the production of motorcycles has touched 1 million mark in Pakistan it is the actual total usage (because old motorcycles are discarded) that is relevant for the discussion of size of the middle class notwithstanding the fact that both the public sector departments (e.g. police, militias) and private sector businesses (banks, courier and private security companies, etc.) buy motorcycles and those sales are not part of family or consumer expenditure. The same observation applies to passenger cars with current annual sales figure of 160,000 units. India whose population is 6.7 times larger than that of Pakistan sells more than 12 times the number of passenger cars sold in Pakistan. It is a moot point whether Pakistan’s middle class too, like India, accounts for 40% or so of its population.

There is another indicator for the size of the middle class; female literacy in the youth. According to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), 71% of the eligible girls did not go to secondary school in 2009. The low rate does not support the case that Pakistan’s middle class accounts for nearly 35-40% of its population. Pakistan’s other social indicators relative to most Asian countries do not support the view of Pakistan having a size of middle class that is typical of middle income countries.

Based on the analysis of both the World Bank data and the Asian Development Reports as well as other indicators such as the demand for big ticket consumer spending items like cars and motorcycles, I think the size of the middle class in Pakistan is about 20-25 million (or 11-14% of the population) with a total income of $30-40 billion or 17-22% of national income.

For India:

--Increasing prosperity. Whereas in 2001-'02 just 13.8 million households had incomes in excess of $4,000 per year, by 2009-'10, the number--at constant prices--has risen to 46.7 million, representing a population of about 200 million individuals.

--Decreasing poverty. During the same period, the proportion of very low income households--those earning less than $1,000--has fallen sharply from 65.2 million in 2001-'02 to 41 million by 2009-'10.

Since then, the number have improved drastically.

It is useless trying Pakistan to a county whose economy is order of magnitude size larger and far more advanced and diversified than the primitive towel and bedsheets based economy of Pakistan.

 

[RiazHaq]

Pakistan has no real middle class to speak of.



It is useless trying Pakistan to a county whose economy is order of magnitude size larger and far more advanced and diversified than the primitive towel and bedsheets based economy of Pakistan.

More nonsense motivated by your total ignorance and bigotry!!!

Pakistan's middle class is 40% of the population vs India's middle class only 25% of the population, according to ADB:

And Pakistan's middle class is growing much faster than India's. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report titled "Asia's Emerging Middle Class: Past, Present And Future.

Haq's Musings: Upwardly Mobile Pakistan on 66th Independence Day

 

[Vinod2070]

More nonsense motivated by your total ignorance and bigotry!!!

Pakistan's middle class is 40% of the population vs India's middle class only 25% of the population, according to ADB:

And Pakistan's middle class is growing much faster than India's. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report titled "Asia's Emerging Middle Class: Past, Present And Future.

Haq's Musings: Upwardly Mobile Pakistan on 66th Independence Day

More nonsense.

Why are Indian car sales three times on per capita basis if Pakistan has a bigger middle class.

Same goes for two wheelers and almost any consumer items that middle class uses.

Middle class requires rule of law, not a country where even the army chiefs and presidents run away from courts, protected by hired military men.

Pakistan's per capita income was 66% higher than India in 1990 and is 66% of India in 2012. And he wants to believe their middle class has grown faster during the same period!

 

[Vinod2070]

Pakistan tops in only these things in South Asia.

Failed state rank from the top.

HDI index from the bottom.

 

[Backbencher]

There are almost next to zero real middle class people in Pakistan. Either they are too rich or too poor . Well most of the decent earning Pakistani have left the country in search for a peaceful place .

 

[haviZsultan]

Both times I checked this thread it had become an insalubrious effort to show each others country as pathetic, weak and low. I think this thread should be locked and cleaned up. @Aeronaut

 

[RiazHaq]

More nonsense.

Why are Indian car sales three times on per capita basis if Pakistan has a bigger middle class.

Same goes for two wheelers and almost any consumer items that middle class uses.

Middle class requires rule of law, not a country where even the army chiefs and presidents run away from courts, protected by hired military men.

Pakistan's per capita income was 66% higher than India in 1990 and is 66% of India in 2012. And he wants to believe their middle class has grown faster during the same period!

Your data is WRONG!!!

While we are at it, let's look at some 21st century middle class indicators like Internet penetration and college education.

1. Internet Penetration: India 11.4%, Pakistan 15.3%

Source: Internet World Stats

Asia Internet Usage Stats Facebook and Population Statistics

2. College Education: With nearly 16% of its population in 25-34 years age group having college degrees, Pakistan is well ahead of India at 12%, according to Global Education Digest 2009 published by UNESCO Institute of Statistics. UNESCO data also shows that Pakistan's lead is growing with younger age groups.

Source: Global Education Digest

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf

As to rule of law, the rule of jungle is a better of description of India which the most dangerous place to be a woman.

Superfreakonomics authors Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner have argued that if women could choose their birthplace, India might not be a wise choice for any of them to be born. They say that those lucky enough not to be aborted as fetuses face inequality and cruelty at every turn because of the low social status given to Indian women.

The latest UN data proves Levitt and Dubner right. An Indian girl aged 1-5 years is 75% more likely to die than an Indian boy, making India the most deadly place for newborn baby girls, according to data released by the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs (UN-DESA). The data for 150 countries over 40 years shows that India and China are the only two countries in the world where female infant mortality is higher than male infant mortality.

Haq's Musings: UN Finds India Most Deadly For Little Girls

 

[Vinod2070]

The crime rate in Pakistan is 2.5 times that of India.

Only for you, it is just a state of being while in India, we want to improve it.

And my data is all correct. As I said, your only possible comparison is with Afghanistan.

 

[Arsalan]

There are almost next to zero real middle class people in Pakistan. Either they are too rich or too poor . Well most of the decent earning Pakistani have left the country in search for a peaceful place .

Wrong dear!
Yes the Middle Class have suffered a lot dureing the past few years but it is not like there is NEXT TO ZERO middle class left.
Middle class still forms the major portion of our population.
Also DECENT EARNING Pakistanis are not leaving as they are doing decent here as well. it is mostly the lower middle class. Remittance have increased as a matter of fact due to this!

 

[RiazHaq]

The crime rate in Pakistan is 2.5 times that of India.

Only for you, it is just a state of being while in India, we want to improve it.

And my data is all correct. As I said, your only possible comparison is with Afghanistan.

India is murder and rape capital of the world.

Haq's Musings: India is the World's Murder Capital

The Human Rights Watch has documented the following abuses in India:

* Over 100,000 cases of rape, murder, arson, and other atrocities against Dalits are reported in India each year. Given that Dalits are both reluctant and unable (for lack of police cooperation) to report crimes against themselves, the actual number of abuses is presumably much higher.

* India's own agencies have reported that these cases are typically related to attempts by Dalits to defy the social order, or demand minimum wages and their basic human rights. Many of the atrocities are committed by the police. Even perpetrators of large-scale massacres have escaped prosecution.

* An estimated forty million people in India, among them fifteen million children, are bonded laborers, working in slave-like conditions in order to pay off a debt. A majority of them are Dalits.

* According to government statistics, an estimated one million Dalits are manual scavengers who clear feces from public and private latrines and dispose of dead animals; unofficial estimates are much higher.

* The sexual slavery of Dalit girls and women continues to receive religious sanction. Under the devadasi system, thousands of Dalit girls in India's southern states are ceremoniously dedicated or married to a deity or to a temple. Once dedicated, they are unable to marry, forced to become prostitutes for upper-caste community members, and eventually auctioned into an urban brothel.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India

 

[cloud_9]

Wohoo! I was craving for some data from the 1990's and early 2000 for dinner....Looks like this is the place to be

 

[Vinod2070]

Your data is WRONG!!!

While we are at it, let's look at some 21st century middle class indicators like Internet penetration and college education.

1. Internet Penetration: India 11.4%, Pakistan 15.3%

Source: Internet World Stats

Asia Internet Usage Stats Facebook and Population Statistics

2. College Education: With nearly 16% of its population in 25-34 years age group having college degrees, Pakistan is well ahead of India at 12%, according to Global Education Digest 2009 published by UNESCO Institute of Statistics. UNESCO data also shows that Pakistan's lead is growing with younger age groups.

Source: Global Education Digest

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf

As to rule of law, the rule of jungle is a better of description of India which the most dangerous place to be a woman.

Superfreakonomics authors Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner have argued that if women could choose their birthplace, India might not be a wise choice for any of them to be born. They say that those lucky enough not to be aborted as fetuses face inequality and cruelty at every turn because of the low social status given to Indian women.

The latest UN data proves Levitt and Dubner right. An Indian girl aged 1-5 years is 75% more likely to die than an Indian boy, making India the most deadly place for newborn baby girls, according to data released by the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs (UN-DESA). The data for 150 countries over 40 years shows that India and China are the only two countries in the world where female infant mortality is higher than male infant mortality.

Haq's Musings: UN Finds India Most Deadly For Little Girls

One image.

Pakistan has 2% of the world population and yet more terrorists than the rest of the world combined.

The reason is the bigotry that is so much a part of the country. That even the literate ones who run off to secular democratic countries are not able to eschew.

You could have done something positive for your country in this ripe old age. Yet you choose to play this juvenile game of bigotry when the country is failing...

And oh, what are you doing with those internet connections.

 

[Developereo]

Pakistan has 2% of the world population and yet more terrorists than the rest of the world combined.
[...]
And oh, what are you doing with those internet connections.

Hint: flitting from topic to topic, talking about **** and terrorism, is an admission that you can't address the points under debate.

 

[Vinod2070]

Days after the Delhi gang-rape victim died, a 9-year-old in Pakistan was beaten and raped by three men. In Pakistan, however, no one is talking about it.

Instances of rape have increased from 778 in 2008 to 827 in 2011, with 928 in both 2009 and 2010. But as the report states, “Rape in particular is under-reported as the victims and their families … keep the matter hidden because of the shame and disgrace attached to the crime.”

Pakistan also has a rape problem

Hint: flitting from topic to topic, talking about **** and terrorism, is an admission that you can't address the points under debate.

Just replying to him in the only way he understands.

He has a stock, juvenile, Pavlovian response to everything that may have nothing to do with the topic.

Let's play along...

 

[ChennaiSKing]

Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As of 2011, according to a Pakistan Institute of Development Economics study, the size of the Pakistani middle class is conservatively estimated at approximately 35 million, out of a total population of 176 million. This represents 20% of the population of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India

With one of the fastest growing economies in the world, clocked at a growth rate of 8.3% in 2010, India is fast on its way to becoming a large and globally important consumer economy. The Indian middle class is estimated to be 250 million people(2010), by Mindia has currypany. It will reach 600 million by 2030. According to Deutsche Research the estimates are nearly 300 million people for all Middle Class. If current trends continue, Indian per capita purchasing power parity will significantly increase from 4.7 to 6.1 percent of the world share by 2015. In 2006, 22 percent of Indians lived under the poverty line. India aims to eradicate poverty by 2020

Pakistan middle class percentage of Total Population is 20% and India's middle class population is also around 22% of total population, and I don't see there is much difference - which the phony economist RiazHaq is talking about - by the way India with it's 270 million middle class population in 2013 is having a larger middle class population than the entire Pakistan Population...!!!