Pakistan's former ambassador to US 'lobbying against own country', says Aziz

[VCheng]

Provoked his venomous reaction, seems to have done the job. As for his punishment, how can his case proceed in a court if he is absconding. Stripping him off his Pakistani nationality(if he has any) would be a wise move....but that of course depends upon the Pakistani establishment's resolve to take stern actions.

He can always be tried in absentia.

 

[Tripoli]

There is a different government, and a different COAS in power. The old affiliations do not hold sway anymore.

.

It seems that you know something. If you don't mind could you please share your take on this issue.
Why was there no action taken by the powerful establishment against him? Why did they let him leave the country even when they knew that he had become a threat to Pakistani interests?
(To be honest I have a peculiar feeling about this.)

 

[R Wing]

It seems that you know something. If you don't mind could you please share your take on this issue.
Why was there no action taken by the power establishment against him? Why did they let him leave the country even when they knew that he had become a threat to Pakistani interests?
(To be honest I have a peculiar feeling about this.)

There is an unfortunate reality in our country that pretty much everyone escapes punishment.

And if you think the security establishment is somehow magically more pure than the rest, I urge you to look into the corrupt family business that a former DG ISI has just joined. And what about Mush, who brought the MQM in power again in Karachi --- who are supposedly RAW-backed militants? Everyone is chilling. Enjoying multi-million dollar accommodation.

We have become so utterly lenient about our definition of treason that pretty much everything is justified --- financial corruption isn't even considered bad anymore --- it's simply a given! Scary times.

Mossad would have assassinated or honey trapped such a traitor back to Israel to face trial. But in Pakistan, even Chief Justices are corrupt. Ifthikhar Chaudhry's son was gallivanting around Monaco with Malik Riaz.

Welcome to Pakistan.

He can always be tried in absentia.

Our establishment's resolve to take action against traitors is non-existent.

 

[Tripoli]

And if you think the security establishment is somehow magically more pure than the rest, I urge you to look into the corrupt family business that a former DG ISI has just joined. And what about Mush, who brought the MQM in power again in Karachi --- who are supposedly RAW-backed militants? Everyone is chilling. Enjoying multi-million dollar accommodation.

.

Shhhh!

We have become so utterly lenient about our definition of treason that pretty much everything is justified --- financial corruption isn't even considered bad anymore --- it's simply a given! Scary times.

.

This is exactly why I don't have any hope for this country. Lets say that Imran Khan is elected. He is a good person and and is not really corrupt, in my opinion. However, he will have to choose ministers. He will have to appoint Supreme Court judges and much more. How is he going to appoint qualified, non-corrupt people to these and many other posts It will be a nightmare for him. He will eventually have to give in and allow corrupt people to these posts if he wants to maintain his power.

Although Imran Khan was able to fix KPK Police but is it possible for him top replicate this in the other institutions?

I don't think so.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Adviser to Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz

Every now and then this buddha babbles something. First the statement about getting alternative to F16 plane and now this. Who cares about him anyway? How many days more before he retires? If nobody else retires him, how many days more before he rests in peace?

 

[R Wing]

Shhhh!






This is exactly why I don't have any hope for this country. Lets say that Imran Khan is elected. He is a good person and and is not really corrupt, in my opinion. However, he will have to choose ministers. He will have to appoint Supreme Court judges and much more. How is he going to appoint qualified, non-corrupt people to these and many other posts It will be a nightmare for him. He will eventually have to give in and allow corrupt people to these posts if he wants to maintain his power.

Although Imran Khan was able to fix KPK Police but is it possible for him top replicate this in the other institutions?

I don't think so.

I voted for PTI under the same logic --- i.e. lesser of the evils.

But Pakistan doesn't need an incremental increase in effective governance. We need a top-down (or bottom-up!) revamp of the entire system --- of our style of parliamentary democracy, of the judicial system and a lot else.

IK's original party is in the background. The main people are all now opportunists who joined him when they realized the PPP doesn't have any (federal) future. The likes of JT, Aleem Khan, et al. Therefore I now believe that even PTI, while still marginally better than the rest, is essentially part of the system.

The Army needs to play its part too. It is not interested in a revamped system apparently. It is okay with controlling its portion of interests (defence, foreign policy, land/Cantonments, etc.) and the rest is up for loot and plunder.

 

[Tripoli]

I voted for PTI under the same logic --- i.e. lesser of the evils.

But Pakistan doesn't need an incremental increase in effective governance. We need a top-down (or bottom-up!) revamp of the entire system --- of our style of parliamentary democracy, of the judicial system and a lot else.

IK's original party is in the background. The main people are all now opportunists who joined him when they realized the PPP doesn't have any (federal) future. The likes of JT, Aleem Khan, et al. Therefore I now believe that even PTI, while still marginally better than the rest, is essentially part of the system.

The Army needs to play its part too. It is not interested in a revamped system apparently. It is okay with controlling its portion of interests (defence, foreign policy, land/Cantonments, etc.) and the rest is up for loot and plunder.

I don't think a bottom-up revamp of the system is possible in the short term. It would require a nationwide quality education effort and so much more.

As for top-down change we would need a messiah.(Imran Khan?)

 

[R Wing]

I don't think a bottom-up revamp of the system is possible in the short term. It would require a nationwide quality education effort and so much more.

As for top-down change we would need a messiah.(Imran Khan?)

The only institution currently capable of backing and engineering (in terms of influence and power --- not necessarily intellectual capability) a radical revamp with a technocratic government is the PA; but unfortunately, an analysis of military dictators shows that their idea of effective governance is... questionable, at best.

There is no hope in the existing system, IK included.

Patriots need to come together and overthrow the system.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

He is like you, a filth, traitorous and rotten to the core, we just don't want our Pakistan to be associated with him in any way, we don't want to be reminded that this filth Mir Jafar of today's era lived on our lands, this hypocrite portrays himself as a Pakistani expert and made a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of Pakistan, we want him to remove the Pakistani tag completely and so should you.

This post is full of personal attacks

@waz @Oscar @WebMaster

pls check

 

[Tripoli]

What are your "peculiar" feeling about this. Please explain.

I don't think I have to really explain much. A man who was a threat to Pakistani interests was let off without a scratch.
During all of this time the' establishment' was helpless Who are they kidding? The truth is quite obvious.

I just wanted your take on what actually happened and to see if my views on this issue are shared by anyone else.

 

[VCheng]

I don't think I have to really explain much. A man who was a threat to Pakistani interests was let off without a scratch.
During all of this time the' establishment' was helpless Who are they kidding? The truth is quite obvious.

I just wanted your take on what actually happened.

All that is in the past. What is more important is what happens now. Berating one individual will do nothing to improve the policies that have led Pakistan in its present predicament, years in the making.

 

[Tripoli]

What is more important is what happens now.

What is going to happen now will be almost identical to what has happened in the past and what will certainly happen in the future as well

This country needs a messiah but the problem is it doesn't deserve one.

 

[R Wing]

I don't think I have to really explain much. A man who was a threat to Pakistani interests was let off without a scratch.
During all of this time the' establishment' was helpless Who are they kidding? The truth is quite obvious.

I just wanted your take on what actually happened.

What is going to happen now will be almost identical to what has happened in the past and what will certainly happen in the future as well

This country needs a messiah but the problem is it doesn't deserve one.

Yup.

The problem is that in our "let's focus on the current" mindset, we forget to set a precedent by punishing traitors. There is no fear of consequences.

How Pakistan should deal with traitors (here is the case of Mordechai Vanunu, who gave proof to UK journalists about Israel's then-secret nuclear program):

The Israeli government decided to capture Vanunu, but determined to avoid harming its good relationship with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and not wanting to risk confrontation with British intelligence, determined Vanunu should be persuaded to leave British territory under his own volition. Israel's efforts to capture Vanunu were headed by Giora Tzahor.[35]

Through constant surveillance and analysis by Mossad psychologists, the Mossad found that Vanunu had become lonely and eager for female companionship. Masquerading as an American tourist called "Cindy", Israeli Mossad agent Cheryl Bentov befriended Vanunu, and on 30 September persuaded him to fly to Rome with her on a holiday.[36] This relation has been perceived as a classic honey trap operation whereby an intelligence agent employs seduction to gain the target's trust—a practice which has been officially sanctioned in Israel.[37][38][39] On the day Bentov met Vanunu, the Israeli Navy electronic surveillance ship INS Noga was ordered to the Italian coast.

The Noga, disguised as a merchant ship, was fitted with electronic surveillance equipment and satellite communications gear in its superstructure, and was primarily used to intercept communications traffic in Arab ports. As the ship was heading from Antalya in Turkey back to Haifa, the captain was instructed in an encrypted message to change course for Italy and anchor off the coast. The Noga arrived off the Italian port city of La Spezia and anchored in international waters, just outside Italian territorial waters.

Once in Rome, Vanunu and Bentov took a taxi to an apartment in the old quarter of the city, where three waiting Mossad operatives overpowered Vanunu and injected him with a paralyzing drug. Later that night, a white van hired by the Israeli embassy arrived, and Vanunu was carried to it on a stretcher. The ambulance drove out of Rome, down the coast to a pre-arranged point.

Vanunu was transferred to a waiting speedboat, which then rendezvoused with the waiting Noga anchored off the coast. He was brought aboard the Noga in total secrecy. The crew were told to assemble in the ship's common room and lock the door as Vanunu and the Mossad agents were taken aboard. The ship then departed for Israel. During the journey, Vanunu was kept in a cabin, with Mossad agents taking turns guarding him. None of the Noga's crew was allowed to look at the prisoner.

On 6 October, the ship anchored off the coast of Israel between Tel Aviv and Haifa, where it was met by a smaller vessel to which Vanunu was transferred. The vessel then took Vanunu to the shore, where he was taken into custody and questioned by Mossad interrogators.​

He was then tried in secret and jailed.

This is the route the ISI needs to take, at minimum, with those who betray the country (including by looting it or aligning themselves with anti-State elements.

 

[VCheng]

What is going to happen now will be almost identical to what has happened in the past and what will certainly happen in the future as well

This country needs a messiah but the problem is it doesn't deserve one.

Pakistan definitely deserves success, and it is not beyond all hope just yet. However, a messiah can appear only if the people themselves create one, since they do not appear by magic or prayer, but by hard work only.

 

[Yousafzai_M]

As I said before, if his opinions bother you (or anyone else), the solution lies in presenting a better counter-narrative. There is nothing stopping the current Pakistani Ambassador, from taking effective steps to counter what HH is saying, is there? Why not ask the Pakistani government to direct its personnel to work harder and better, as trying to prevent anyone from voicing their personal views will never work.

While I do agree the counter narrative is not good or strong enough, if there is any to begin with, you also cannot deny the fact that you can easily become a 'scholar' if you boast about the American/Western view of the story.

Just start bashing ISI, Pakistan Army and its policies, and viola! you are a scholar! All the so called think tanks would come running after your interviews.

The same applies generally to bashing Islam in the West, thats a quick easy way if you want to become famous.